Chicago White Sox

QUOTE (fathom @ May 30, 2013 -> 04:59 PM) Maybe I missed it, but did anyone say the Cubs were more talented THIS year? QUOTE (Steve9347 @ May 30, 2013 -> 03:53 PM) The Cubs are simply a better and more talented team than the White Sox - the White Sox just happen to not be in a division with the Cardinals so they get to tease the silly idiots who think they have a chance a little bit longer.

QUOTE (fathom @ May 30, 2013 -> 04:53 PM) Aren't they pretty similar in terms of on the field talent? Neither team has much positional talent, Sox have a HUGE edge on the pitching side. Do you disagree?

QUOTE (flavum @ May 30, 2013 -> 04:50 PM) I would say it's a dumb argument. Who cares? Both team's seasons end on September 29. I would agree it's a dumb argument, but I can't stand posters who only come to PHT when the team sucks in order to drop some stupid, holier than thou comment like "I'm a realist and the Cubs are clearly the more talented teams because ".

QUOTE (pettie4sox @ May 30, 2013 -> 04:44 PM) The Sox are still a better team than the cubs. I don't care what anyone says. The sox did not show up this series period. They have had solid SP this entire year and Danks and Peavy implode. You have to expect your SP to do better than 4 IP. We know what the White Sox offense is, that hasn't changed. Since RV is hell bent on his s***ty lineup, it will continue unless these overpaid assholes break out of their slump. This. The Sox may very well be a bad team, but anyone who honestly thinks the Cubs' current roster is more talented is a complete f***ing idiot.

QUOTE (Flash Tizzle @ May 30, 2013 -> 04:04 PM) I enjoy distancing myself from Soxtalk for awhile and then returning and reading through posts by the same members (often year to year) who cannot seem to recognize a White Sox team for what it is. I don't know if immersing yourself in every pitch of every game and then coming on here to discuss it every day removes you objectivity, but it's troubling in some cases. This is not a well constructed ballclub. They will not be winning in the playoffs. That doesn't make them less talented than the Cubs though.

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ May 30, 2013 -> 03:53 PM) The Cubs are simply a better and more talented team than the White Sox - the White Sox just happen to not be in a division with the Cardinals so they get to tease the silly idiots who think they have a chance a little bit longer. The Cubs have played the Cardinals TWICE, but please don't let facts get in the way of yet another one of your meatball theories.

QUOTE (maggsmaggs @ May 29, 2013 -> 12:29 PM) The problem is that our system is so bereft of talent that we have the least amount to offer teams in trades. Right now, there is probably only one player we have that you can say very likely will be an solid ML player (Johnson). I also don't believe Hahn is going to be as reckless in trading cost-controlled players as KW was, especially with starting pitching where average pitchers are getting $10 million per season. Granted, KW traded players who had high value at the time and ended up doing nothing with a few exceptions (Morse, Hudson, Gio). EDIT: I should note Erik Johnson to avoid confusion with the many other Johnsons we have in the system. But we can still trade cost controlled players for other cost controlled players. I'm sure plenty of teams would have interest in Quintana right now. Perhaps you look into trading him for a young impact bat. Erik Johnson would then replace Quintana in the rotation. I'm not necessarily advocating that particular move, but we definitely have starting pitching we can trade to help improve the offense.

It's too bad DeMichele has been struggling this year, because Micah Johnson seems ready for a promotion.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ May 28, 2013 -> 06:32 PM) The prospect crowd here would not stand for that. Stand for what?

I hope Sale throws a perfect game tonight and then someone tweets Gorden Whitenmeyer to STFU about this city ace bulls***.

QUOTE (fathom @ May 28, 2013 -> 05:30 PM) Didn't marty simply said that if you're giving up on the season and trading Alexei/Peavy/Crain/Rios, then just put Keppinger at SS to finish out the year? That's not a crazy statement,even though he'd be a disaster at SS and I'm sure marty would be the first to admit that. Hell, I suggested putting Beckham at SS for a trial run if the trade scenario mentioned in the first sentence takes place, and this was before they put him at SS in AAA. If I had time, I'd go back and look for the exact quote, but IIRC he proposed releasing Alexei and playing Keppinger at SS. Win or lose, that ideas makes no sense IMO. Keppinger would be epically bad at SS and my guess is his frustrations would carry themselves into the batter's box. If you honestly think Kep is a stiff, then the idea should be to put him in position where he can succeed and potentially become tradable. That's not happening if you let him fail at SS on a regular basis. Also, if you plan on being bad, you might as well call up Carlos Sanchez and give him a shot at SS. Why waste innings on a guy who has 0% chance of being a long-term solution if you can attempt to develop a youngster? As for Beckham, I agreed with your proposal. If he could prove to be even average at SS, in the event of a selloff/rebuilding, you would have a capable replacement for Alexei and would open up 2B which is a much easier position to fill. Maybe the chances of Beckham sticking at SS would be extremely low, but they have to better than Keppinger doing anything at the position.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ May 28, 2013 -> 04:52 PM) You think I'm the only one who thinks the guy is a stiff? ROFL! Yet you proposed making him our starting shortstop.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ May 28, 2013 -> 03:02 PM) Because selling high on Peavy and Rios is the right thing to do because it is going to be impossible to build a team around them that will win a World Series. You think it's impossible to win a World Series next year with a rotation of Sale, Peavy, Danks, Quintana, & Santiago? You honestly think there are no set of moves that Hahn could make to improve the offense enough to win a World Series?

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ May 28, 2013 -> 12:56 PM) I don't know what the scouts actually think of Phegley's chances of success, but if they are trying to win next year, starting a rookie who isn't a top 100 prospect probably isn't the way to go. If it were me making the decisions, I would think Phegley would be trade material. Flowers has shown he can be a good back up, and a catcher would have to be acquired. If Phegley keeps hitting anywhere close to like he has, he'll easily be a top 100 prospect. He's a 25 year old catcher who is currently second in OPS in the International League. There's plenty of room for regression with him still being a great offensive catcher. The problem is no one really knows what to expect out of him going forward. He's never hit anywhere close to this good in his entire minor league career, but at the same time he was a 1st round supplemental draft pick because of his bat and he's been unhealthy for the last several years. Maybe he's finally at full strength and reaching his potential, or maybe this is just one long hot streak. Most likely it's somewhere in the middle, but the closer he is to the player we are seeing this year, the more likely he is to become a legit starting catcher in the majors. The real problem here is that we're still working with a small sample size. In a perfect world, you'd give Phegley another couple months in AAA to see if this is just a hot streak. Unfortunately, Flowers and the offense have been so bad, that we're almost forced to make the switch sometime soon. If this happens, hopefully Phegley starts off fast, because any struggles will make the decision on a starting catcher for 2014 even more difficult.

QUOTE (Lillian @ May 27, 2013 -> 10:44 PM) At what point in Flowers' Minor League career did he ever have a productive stretch like the one Phegley has had for the first 25% of the season? Flowers had one great Arizona Fall League Season, and that was what convinced K.W. to go after him. Beyond that, he never has demonstrated the kind of offense Josh is showing. Defensively, Phegley has a good arm and can block balls in the dirt. You don't hear much about his pitch calling, but that could be done from the bench. We all know that Phegley had health issues that account for his previous struggles. He was a very highly rated offensive player when drafted. Flowers had a .939 OPS in 2009 and has put up an .838 OPS or better every year of his minor league career but one. Let's be honest, Tyler Flowers' career minor league numbers blow Phegley's out of the water outside of a 2 month stretch. The concern with Phegley is he has never hit like this before. If you call him up right now and he struggles the rest of the way, you're putting yourself in a tough spot for next year. You won't know if those two months were flukes. How do you then decide if you want to roll with him as your starting catcher in 2014? I still think you give Phegley another month in AAA to demonstrate this isn't just a hot streak. In the meantime, give Gimenez more starts and hope Flowers can rebound to some extent. If not, call up Phegley in late June or early July.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ May 27, 2013 -> 08:56 PM) I have been to worse, it happens. I've been to plenty of bad games, but watching your team suck balls on a cold night is never fun. Especially when you're playing the Cubs and your wife is a Cubs fan.

One of the worst games I have ever attended.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ May 27, 2013 -> 03:39 PM) The Tigers haven't won a WS since 1984. The Giants have won 2 out of the last 3 WS but over the past decade how much better have they been than the Whit Sox. The Cardinals have won a couple of WS recently. One by winning 83 games and another when they finished in 2nd place,. They have though, consistently win lots of games, and get contributions signing bats lile Beltran and Berkman , guys on Marty's wrong side of 30. The Cardinals are the perfect comparison for the Sox. Get to the postseason and anything can happen. That's why when you have a rotation like the Sox's you go for it as long as your close come July 31st. Also, when did the Cardinals go through their rebuilding process? They did what the Sox are trying to do, they overhauled their scouting and development departments while still trying to win. Based on the young talent they've called up in recent years, it looks like their strategy has worked. Give the Sox some time and our system should improve significantly. We've been operating without a Latin American presence for years. Marco Paddy and the additional international scouts alone should pay big dividends. Throw in the new CBA changes and new leadership in Hahn and we're finally ready to step forward in a positive direction. We don't need to sell off some of our best players to get us there.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 27, 2013 -> 03:15 PM) You know, right now...I'm not sure I agree with this. I think we have a good chance that next year, or even late this year, Johnny Danks can be the theoretical Peavy replacement. As others have noted, that still leaves the team with a 4 lefty starting rotation, which is definitely an oddity, but it does kinda make some sense. And we'd still be sitting there 6-deep in the rotation thanks to EJ. That said, if we're 2-3 games out at the deadline, screw it, I want Peavy in my rotation for the stretch. If you're trying to win a World Series, then Peavy is basically irreplaceable. He's pitching like a legit #1 starter right now. We may be able replace most of his regular season innings and do so at a respectable level, but not his role in a potential playoff series. Pencil him behind Sale and you've got one of the best 1-2 punches in baseball. That can be a deadly combination come October. Plus Quintana & Danks (or even Santiago) slot much better as #3 & #4 starters in the postseason.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ May 27, 2013 -> 10:04 AM) Exactly. The Sox try to win, they draft Chris Sale. The Cubs tank, their reward appears to be Mark Appel. Who would you rather have? Saying the Sox draft position is the reason for their weak system is BS. There have been plenty of all stars they have had the opportunity to select. The problem is that people still think we can throw unlimited resources at the draft and international free agents which simply isn't the case. Losing teams still have an edge under the new CBA, but it's nowhere near what it used to be. What I don't get is how people don't realize developing prospects takes a s***-load of time. It's going to take the players in a given draft class 3 to 6 years to be major league ready. You'll need multiple strong drafts to eventually form a young core of players that you can compete with. Assuming you have 4 strong drafts in a row, maybe this can be accomplished in 5 or 6 years. If you start relying on lots of high school players and Latin American free agents then it will likely take even longer. This assumes that not only do you hit on a ton of your draft picks, but you can also successfully develop them into good big leaguers. I don't know when rebuilding suddenly got so cool, but going through one is painful. Summers filled with 90 loss seasons suck. Talk to some Cubs fans. The initial dream of a few years of losing followed by endless World Series championships is starting to fade away. Cubs fans are starting to realize this rebuilding is going to take longer than expected. Meanwhile, their fans don't want to go to games. People are already sick of losing and it's only year 2. Imagine what happens if guys like Almora and Baez flop. Tack on a few more years to the rebuilding effort. I'm sure Cubs fans will still be for the rebuilding at that point.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ May 27, 2013 -> 12:31 AM) What was the Royals' record against the White Sox from August 7th on last year? 9-3 (6-12 overall) How many games did we lose the division to DET by? 3 games. What was our record in 2011 against the Royals? 7-11 Seeing a trend? What is our record inside of the division now, without having played the Tigers? 7-9 What are the odds that the Royals will play .318 ball for the remainder of the season and not have a burst of momentum from hiring a new manager? 0.00% As for the Twins, Morneau will be gone after this year, they have 2 of the top 25 position prospects in the game and three potential front-line aces in Gibson, May and Meyer. They're 50% of the way there in terms of getting ready for another run again. Unfortunately for their fans, it's hard to be patient in Year 3 of a rebuilding project in a brand-new stadium. The White Sox also haven't cut their payroll all the way down to $70 million. Ironic, because Pohlad is individually perhaps the richest of all baseball owners, but one of the most penurious. Caulfield, please don't take this as an insult, but you need to stop taking on both sides of an argument. This "can the Sox compete this year" discussion in particular. Sometimes you argue for us competing, sometimes you argue it's a lost cause. I get it's been a sea-saw of a season, but your argument shouldn't change in a matter of minutes. I've seen you change your tone depending on what certain posters say. You seem to have a vast knowledge about the game of baseball, so stick to one side of an argument and people will take your comments much more seriously. Anyways, the one thing I wanted to point out in your post is your comment about the Twins' prospects. There is a problem on this website with overhyping other teams' prospects. No one can argue that Twins don't have one of the most talented systems in baseball with a couple of incredibly high-end talents. Having said that, even the best prospects flop at a certain percetage. Many posters on this site assume all these top prospects will make it, as long they don't play for the Sox. This happens with the Royals almost every year. Hosmer & Moustakas were among the best prospects in baseball and look where they are right now. They've underperformed just like our own Gordon Beckham. All I'm trying to say is that these Twins prospects may end up making it, but nothing is ever promised in baseball and it's going to be years before they all come together and are ready to form a competitive core. Let's not jump to conclusions yet.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ May 26, 2013 -> 07:53 PM) For the White Sox, it's always better to spread that money over 2-3 guys than one huge contract. Always. You would think we would have learned our lesson with Dunn. And we were fortunate to get out of the Belle deal before he became a salary albatross for the Orioles. I agree for the most part, although I don't think Dunn's contract is really that ridiculous. More has to do with paying your DH that much than anything. And the more I think about it, Morales seems to make so much sense as Paulie's replacement. He's putting up a .286/.365/.451 slash line playing half his games at Safeco. Hopefully the low amount of HRs lessens the demand for him this coming offseason. He would fit nicely in our lineup.

QUOTE (MnSoxFan @ May 26, 2013 -> 07:20 PM) He has now been caught 12 times, getting caught more regularly of late, he needs to stop running so much. CS don't really matter much in the minors. A guy like Johnson is going to be told to run as often as he likes in order to continue improving his technique.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ May 26, 2013 -> 07:07 PM) Wrong side of 30. Sell high on Peavy and Rios. McCann & Morales aren't even 30 yet. No doubt Utley is old, but he can help on a short-term deal. Same goes for Granderson. You've been b****ing for over a year how the team won't spend money in free agency. I'm not sure who you expect the team to sign. The guys I've listed are solid free agents. If you expect us to sign the Robinson Cano's of the world you'll be real disappointed.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ May 26, 2013 -> 06:53 PM) How are they going to improve the offense and keep Peavy? Trade a lesser starter for a bat and sign a couple free agents. I've already said names like McCann, Utley, Morales, & Granderson. All those guys would help.