Chicago White Sox

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Dec 6, 2015 -> 09:44 PM) I'm okay with Upton if they get rid of Melky and trade Eaton. Avi-Trayce-Upton is a much better OF. Much rather sign Upton than trade young players to rent an overrated fraud like Frazier. Lol...only you would want to sign Upton and then trade Eaton to clear room for Trayce & Avi. What an absolutely horrible, nonsensical idea.

QUOTE (Vance Law @ Dec 6, 2015 -> 08:31 PM) Please no. Cincy will get a big package of prospects for him from someone. He's only around for 2 seasons. This is the exact opposite of the sort of thing we should do. 2 years and very likely a comp pick if he leaves. If we can get him without giving up Anderson or Fulmer, then I'm all for it.

Do GMs arrive in Nashville tonight? If so, we could have some late night activity.

QUOTE (shysocks @ Dec 4, 2015 -> 03:34 PM) I don't have time to address the framing argument any further at the moment, although I wish I did because it's a great discussion. But as I posted in the other thread about Flowers' non-tender, people saying his hitting was trash are just simply not paying attention to the rest of the league. He struck out a lot. His ceiling was low. And I'd love to be able to describe the Sox' primary catcher as something more than "average for his league." But his numbers match up closely with the aggregate totals for catchers in the American League, except his rotten 2013. Go look it up for yourself. Flowers was ranked 21 of 28 in wRC+ for catchers with 300+ PAs. He wasn't a good hitter last year, even for a catcher. And this is a great example of why people must look beyond a player's stats in isolation and consider the big picture. Flowers is a low contact hitter who frequently goes extended cold streaks where he provides no value offensively. He's a guy who is far less effective than his wRC+ would suggest because he actually hurts the ability of the players batting around him to produce and ultimately makes our run distribution more variable and therefore less valuable. Not all runs all created equal and he's a perfect example of why. His hitting is trash and the single reason he had to go.

I'm cool with Navarro over Flowers for next year, but these moves put us in a dangerous spot at catcher for 2017. We should still try to add a prospect at the AA or AAA level that can potentially compete for a starting in the near future.

QUOTE (Harry Chappas @ Dec 2, 2015 -> 11:32 PM) Spot on Pitch framing is an over blown stat almost as much as babip Am I wrong, I could be but a top flight pitch framer gets one more called strike game? Why is BABIP overblown?

Dude sucks, Hahn should be fired on the spot if he were to sign this chump.

QUOTE (Knackattack @ Dec 2, 2015 -> 11:02 PM) I wouldn't really say Tyler Flowers has defensive value.. pitch framing metrics liked him but how much of this can be attributed to the fact that he had Sale and Quintana who have pretty spot on control throwing to him 2/5 days a week? Other than that I remember him as being clunky and bad behind the plate with a horrible arm.. 100% agree with this.

I'm going to throw out Plawecki. Got to think they're adding a younger catcher if they're willing to non-tender Flowers, given the uncertainty at the position for 2017 & forward. I think an Avi for Plawecki swap makes a lot of sense for both clubs.

QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Dec 2, 2015 -> 12:06 AM) You harp on endlessly about "hero worship" yet think Price is worth that contract? POTY.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Nov 30, 2015 -> 12:08 PM) It isn't logical you could get something for LaRoche or even much salary relief if it is assumed he will be as horrible next season. If it only saves them a million or so, they are better off seeing if he can bounce back. Baseball Prospectus really thought he would age decently last year. He had one of his highest walk rates and lowest k rates in 2014. Maybe it was just the adjustment to the AL and to DHing that threw him off a bit, but unless there is some real savings, getting rid of him just to get rid of him makes little sense to me. He is a highly respected teammate. I think the adjustments you mentioned were a big part of it, but I don't think was healthy last year either, at least in the 2nd half of the season. Honestly, unless a team is willing to take on a good $8M or so of his deal, there is no reason to move him right now. I'd rather give him a few months to start 2016 in a strict platoon scenario and with a good portion of his starts at 1B. If he flops again, then move Melky to DH full-time and give Trayce an opportunity as an everyday regular.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Nov 30, 2015 -> 07:51 AM) Micah is doing a lot of White Sox holiday charity things right now. IMO, it's a sign he probably isn't out the door, at least they aren't dangling him. I'm ok with moving him if they can get value for him, but they better not just give him away. I think his bat can make him a useful player for us and I'm not against another spring competition between him & Sanchez for the 2B job. I just don't feel comfortable handing Carlos the starting job.

I'd rather go dirt cheap with Rollins on a one year deal than give Cabrera $10M+/per over 3 years. Financial resources should be directed towards 3B & RF, not the middle infield.

Right or wrong, I still see us making a serious run at Cespedes. Our team desperately needs to add a power hitter to our lineup and he's perhaps the only option available that won't cost us a draft pick or prospects. Plus in a corner spot, he's a significant upgrade over Avi & Melky defensively.

QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Nov 28, 2015 -> 05:17 PM) He's still cheap, most likely had options (not positive), and there are plenty of spots on the 40 man at the moment. Why would you DFA Webb? 100% agree. Send him down to AAA to start the season. He still has a nice arm and offers some depth in the event of injury.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 28, 2015 -> 08:35 AM) Huh? Dick's right, Johnson put up a 5.93 FIP in six starts. I'm not overly concerned, as I'd assume most of his struggles were due to nerves and a tired arm.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Nov 26, 2015 -> 12:35 AM) It matters because it actually takes regression into account. You can say it's an imperfect system, but it's a hell of a lot more accurate than the typical fan "projection" which is always expecting every player to perform at their peak. OP said that a "conservative projection" is matching his career high. That's ridiculous. Any given player is never "likely" to match their career year at any given time. But why should we expect a 27 year old pitcher to regress? And you keep harping on his career high 5.1 WAR season, but his next season was a 4.8 WAR season. It's not like his career high season was much of an outlier. Again, I'm not sure how any projection system could come up with a 3.6 WAR protection for Quintana next year. That's a 25% drop in production vs. his two-year run rate (the only years he wasn't a developing pitcher). Given he's only 26, it's hard for me to believe he's already peaked and should start trending downwards. The guy is safely a 4.0 WAR pitcher and a good a 50/50 forecast would be a 4.5 WAR season in 2016. Unless Steamer is intended to be ridiculously conservative (what's the value in it then?), I think it's pretty fair to say their projection for Jose Quintana alone is bunk.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Nov 25, 2015 -> 09:54 PM) That's just not true. Quintana's career high is 5.1 fWAR, and he's projected at 3.6 by Steamer. He CAN be a 5 win guy, but that's not conservative at all. He's probably most likely a 4 win guy, conservatively 3.5. No offense, but why does Steamer matter? Quintana put up fWARs of 5.1 & 4.8 the last two seasons. Unless you overweight his first two MLB seasons (as a developing 23 & 24 year old), he's basically been a 5 WAR pitcher. So why should we expect Quintana to pitch closer to his sophomore campaign than his age 25 & 26 seasons? Quite frankly, a 3.6 WAR projection for him next year is garbage no matter how you slice the numbers.

Love this signing. Really thought Avila would get closer to $4M to $5M on a one year deal. His 2011 season appears to be a fluke, but he's consistently shown he could hit RHP prior to last year, posting wRC+ against righties of 107, 113, & 119 from 2014 to 2012. Everything will come down to keeping him healthy and our staff has a pretty good track record. Obviously this isn't the sure thing some of us were looking for, but at $2.5M and no prospects, it's a smart value signing.

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Nov 24, 2015 -> 08:06 PM) Ahem The Challenge! Is it coming back?

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Nov 21, 2015 -> 12:09 AM) If people want Ozuna so badly, trade Avi for him. Change of destination trade. Both have basically sucked: too little OBP and too many Ks. We've been through this, why would the Marlins want Avi when they already have their corners filled?

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Nov 19, 2015 -> 12:23 PM) Then we have a bad hitter who plays good defense instead of a bad hitter who plays bad defense. The REAL plan should be to move Avi and then try to upgrade over Thompson the rest of the offseason, falling back on Thompson if necessary. 100% agree with this.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Nov 19, 2015 -> 08:39 AM) Walker is WAY better than both Sanchez and Johnson. It's fine to say you don't want to give up the assets to get him, but let's not pretend it wouldn't be a substantial upgrade. Has anyone said he wasn't?

QUOTE (Dunt @ Nov 19, 2015 -> 07:51 AM) I dont think you'd have to give up a lot of valuable trade chips for Walker If that's the case, then he becomes more attractive, but I'm still hesitant spending $10M on a 2B when have several passable options at that position and much bigger holes to fill.

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Nov 19, 2015 -> 07:22 AM) Agree with this. Schwarber, Torres, and Contreras for Quintana is a deal I'd make. Cubs and Sox aren't trading with each other though. I'd do that deal as well. I agree though, don't see a trade between us and the Cubs.