Chicago White Sox

I think it's beyond stupid to not shut him down for a while and then try him again at least one more time before making such a move. Unfortunately, it seems like the Sox think they have a better chance of winning this year with Sale as closer than with him missing serious time if kept a starter. I hope I'm wrong, because I find that logic completely idiotic.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 4, 2012 -> 05:02 PM) I'm pretty sure I can go back and find myself having some serious "I told you so"'s on this one and the decision to put Sale in the pen last year. How do you know starting him in AAA last year wouldn't have produced the same result? Seems like quite the reach there.

QUOTE (fathom @ May 4, 2012 -> 04:41 PM) Well, most importantly, hopefully it's not serious for Sale and he's able to recover. If this ends up being a TJS situation, this organization is completely screwed. If Sale is a reliever long-term the Sox are screwed.

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ May 4, 2012 -> 04:33 PM) *just stated on Boers & Bernstein, by the way. Tender elbow for Sale. Available to close on Monday. Not sure if this temporary or not.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ May 4, 2012 -> 01:03 PM) Actually more disappointing that Molina's stuff hasn't looked better (yeah, we know his control is playable, but...) and Castro still looks really, really rough, too. I wouldn't be surprised if the organization has some of the new arms are working on specific pitches.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ May 3, 2012 -> 05:52 PM) Need to know his minor league numbers. Viciedo did not tear through the minors and had a disconcerting K:BB ratio. Viciedo had 45 BBs to 83 Ks last season as a 22 year old Cuban in AAA. I think that's fantastic for such a young player, especially one who came to the U.S. with essentially no discipline.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ May 2, 2012 -> 12:54 PM) Never mind. I was being sarcastic...not a Stewart fan, lol. Has Stewart really been that bad outside of that one terrible outing? Regardless, I'd rather see Axelrod start if possible.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Apr 24, 2012 -> 03:18 PM) Don't figure these as a total. The buyout is not affected by what portion of the season it is. It is $4 million no matter what. It doesn't matter if he is traded today or August 31st. Take the $17.5 million salary and divide it in two and get $8.75m. Add the $4 million buyout to it, which would come after the season, and the team who acquires Peavy owes him at least $12.75 million at that point. If they don't buy him out, they owe him $22 million for next year. If you had actually used the term marginal cost for next year, that would be different (for the 18 vs 22 argument). If a team were to exercise the option after picking him up at the midpoint of this year, they would owe Jake almost $31 million (22m+8.75m) for the next year and a half. Either way, that is a lot of money for a guy who has had huge injury issues for years now. First off, I am a complete idiot for dividing the buyout in half. So basically it costs $10 million to pick Peavy up at the deadline. I agree that's probably too much money for a team to absorb at the deadline, especially with the luxury tax concerns affecting the big spenders. I disagree about the likelihood of picking up Peavy's option if he pitches like an ace the rest of the way. Kenny traded away four prospects for an injured Peavy who had two years left at about $33 million on contract. He did this because he understands the significant value of an ace. To think KW wouldn't pay an additional $5 million to bring Peavy back, if coming off an ace-like season, seems crazy to me, especially since $4 million of that is a sunk cost.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Apr 24, 2012 -> 02:39 PM) That contract is going to be a huge deterrent to any team interested in Jake. He has a $4 million buyout due, on top of a prorated $17.5 million salary for this year. Picking him up at the halfway point of the season would mean taking on about 12.75 million dollars for the rest of the 2012 season. His option for 2012 is $22 million, and not the $18m that was quoted earlier. I'm totally confused here. If his salary is $17.5 million and the buyout is for $4 million, then you're looking at a total cost of $21.5 million. The halfway point value would be $10.75 million, which is $2 million less than you were quoting. However, you're most likely going to trade him at the deadline, so a team would really be picking $7 million or so. Not nearly as bad as the picture you're trying to paint. Also, the option is indeed $22 million, but you've already factored in his buyout to the original cost of obtaining him. You can't include it there and then pretend that he still gets it if the option is picked up. The marginal cost of exercising the option is $18 million. There is no debating this. Therefore, a team considering trading for Peavy is looking at roughly $7 million in guaranteed commitments and another $18 million if they'd like to keep him for 2012. That's a lot of money, but not nearly as bad as you're trying to make it out to be.

QUOTE (Jose Paniagua @ Apr 24, 2012 -> 09:07 AM) There is zero chance we pick up the option. Why? The marginal cost to pick it up is $18 million. If Jake continues to pitch like an ace and stays healthy, I'm very confident we'd pick it up. That might not be likely, but it's at least possible.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Apr 24, 2012 -> 08:10 AM) Just enjoy it. There really isn't much of a scenario that brings him back here. If he ends up hurt or bad, we won't want him. If he ends up really good, some idiot GM will offer him too much money and/or too many years. Yeah there is. If he keeps this up, then we'll end up picking up his option. $18 million for one year seems more than reasonable for an ace. No reason to worry about this right now though. He needs to continue to dominate and prove he can stay healthy before we'd even want him back next year.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Apr 23, 2012 -> 05:47 PM) The sad thing is, this is pretty much exactly what I expected would happen several months ago...bad starts for the young 3, calls growing for all 3 of them to see the bench. The only bright sign for me so far is that Robin flat out hasn't listened, and I really hope he keeps that up. Except you didn't expect the team to be a 1/2 game out of first because of an extremely talented pitching staff and production from Dunn & Rios. I understand the need to develop these three guys, but at the same time you must also recognize this team can win now with it's pitching. There's got to be some balance between the two. Playing Fukudome or Lillibridge here or there is not not going to stunt Viciedo, Morel, or Beckham's development, but it could help us win a couple of games and that might be the difference between making and missing the playoffs in the end.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Apr 23, 2012 -> 05:16 PM) Then you're not all for Viciedo getting his opportunity this year. So you still think this team has no chance of competing and should already punt potential wins for sake of development?

I really don't see a reason to just dump Dunn's contract if he continues playing well the rest of the way. He was the definition of consistency before last season and a strong 2012 would go a long way to prove that 2011 was a complete aberration. Furthermore, this organization is almost completely void of left-handed power. To let go of Dunn for nothing in hopes of bringing in an even more expensive free agent or have a hole that must be filled via trade seems incredibly foolish to me.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Apr 23, 2012 -> 08:28 AM) Well, I can give reasons but no need to...I'd say the larger point is that if Morel, Beckham, and Viciedo don't step it up, then I don't know how this team could be competitive without putting up that kind of historically good ERA level, since, for example, I doubt AJ Pierzynski will stay in the MVP race all year with the bat. Teams can have the best pitching in the league and not be anywhere close to competitive. Oakland and Seattle tend to be up there, for example, although there are some big ballpark effects. Viciedo will be fine IMO, but he's going to have some struggles along the way. Morel and Beckham can't be this bad for much longer. The good news is that Dunn & Rios are taking some of the heat off those guys for the time-being.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Apr 22, 2012 -> 04:44 PM) You almost wonder if the pressure of that contract is affecting Danks this year. Normally, you could blame it on the lack of offensive support, but he just hasn't seemed quite right this year, as we're all noting. He's battling, but the results just aren't there. It's like he's fighting himself right now. That throw over to Dunn really bothered him too and got him flustered visibly. Why would his new contract affect his velocity?

QUOTE (DirtySox @ Apr 22, 2012 -> 04:33 PM) I enjoy watching this team as well, but contention is a long shot. I disagree, I think our pitching staff will keep us in the hunt most of the season. It's the offense that will ultimately make or break us.

QUOTE (ScottyDo @ Apr 22, 2012 -> 02:34 PM) Assuming De Aza needed a day off for whatever reason, who would you prefer lead off? Just playing devil's advocate. This isn't about Lillibridge leading off. If we were facing a LHP, I'd love to see him bat leadoff. This is about Robin looking not looking ahead multiple days and using his bench ineffectively. We face a lefty on Tuesday, why not just wait until then to rest De Aza? Instead he's playing a guy today that doesn't hit RHP well and giving him the most at-bats. I understand it can be tricky managing a bench, but it's very simple when to start Lillibridge in the outfield (against LHP) and even Ozzie got this much right. It's just very disappointing that Robin is not taking advantage of Lillibridge's talents against LHP.

QUOTE (flavum @ Apr 22, 2012 -> 11:25 AM) Lillibridge lf, Ramirez ss, Dunn 1b, Konerko dh, AJ c, Rios rf, Fukudome cf, Morel 3b, Beckham 2b I love moving Alexei into the two-hole, but why do we have Lillibridge leading off against a RHP? I think it's clear as day that Robin uses very little stats in decision-making.

QUOTE (flavum @ Apr 21, 2012 -> 10:29 PM) Look at Phegley. Great season going. I have a good feeling about Quintana. Can't have enough good lefty pitching. Phegley is very intriguing because we really don't know what we have in him due to his health problems. He was always supposed to be a talented hitter and maybe we're finally seeing that. No matter what, very promising start for a guy may be in the catching mix next year. Also, what's the story on Quintana? Why was he cut by both the Mets & Yankees? There's got to be some personal issues, because he had a pretty nice 2011. So far, this looks like another great low-profile move by KW.

Let's see, Lillibridge gets his only start in the series against a RHP and strikes out 3 times. How can Robin not understand how to use him effectively? Also, Escobar should only be in the lineup when Alexei needs an off-day. He's just not a major leage hitter.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Apr 19, 2012 -> 12:24 PM) Even then, the Sox aren't the one year contract for a pitcher type. I don't know what this means. Guys like Peavy (if healthly) are never available for one year deals, so yeah it's kind of a new scenario. I'm not too worried about the Peavy situation. He's looked great so far, but it's still super early in the season. If he can continue pitching like he has and stay healthy, then you start worrying about next year. If things are going right, I'd say you approach him around the deadline with a one-year/$15 million deal and see if he'll take the home-team discount. Otherwise, you wait until the end of the season and decide if you want to exercise his option. I know it's a $22 million option, but when you factor in the buy-out you wouldn't have to pay, the marginal cost is $18 million. That would be a pretty good move if in fact Peavy pitches like a legit #1 starter. Again, we still need to wait and see what we have in Peavy before worrying about next year. Plus there's a decent chance we simply trade him before the deadline because we suck or he's in high demand.

Lillibridge at 3B today batting second. Flowers and Escobar also in the lineup. I'm ecstatic about Morel sitting, but why wasn't Lillibridge in the lineup vs Chen?

QUOTE (Jose Paniagua @ Apr 17, 2012 -> 12:35 PM) If anything of real value had been offered for Lilli, his bags would have been packed immediately Teams ask about everyone but the strength of the deal is what's key. Yeah, but Robin isn't maximizing Lillibridge's value to us by only using him as a defensive replacement. He can hit left-handed pitching, much better than a lot of guys on this team. f***, I think Lillibridge's only start this year came against a RHP. I'm not saying we should have traded him, but Lillibridge isn't providing us with much more production than Jordan Dank would be in this role.

QUOTE (fathom @ Apr 17, 2012 -> 11:47 AM) Chen is a lefty...you've got to be kidding me with this lineup. If Lillibridge was going to be used primarily as a defensive replacement, he should have been traded this offseason when a lot of teams were asking about him. Totally agree. For a team struggling to score runs, we need to find a way to get Lillibridge's bat in the lineup against lefties as much as possible. I would have put him in for De Aza tonight, but having him at 2B would also been a perfectly fine option. I'm starting to get worried that Robin doesn't use much statistics in his decision-making.