Chicago White Sox

You are drawing a connection that doesn’t exist to support a “White Sox” are cheap narrative.

Verlander had Tommy John surgery, so kind of explainable why he only threw six innings the last two years. Regardless, he made 454 starts over his career and amassed 72 fWAR, including 13.0 over the 2018 & 2019 seasons. He is nothing like Carlos Rodon and more than deserving of a QO IMO.

I really don’t think they have any interest in bringing him unless it’s on the team friendliest of deals. They ran his arm into the ground this year and now are moving on to better and safer long-term options.

Also, Iglesias just got a QO for $18.4M based on a 2.83 FIP / 2.0 fWAR season, whereas Kimbrel is a “large overpay under any circumstance” despite a 2.43 FIP / 2.2 fWAR season. ?‍♂️

For the love of god we aren’t keeping Kimbrel. The decisions are not related whatsoever.

I think it’s abundantly clear after Hahn’s interview today that the Sox simply prefer other starters (with health / durability being a major consideration) and view this offseason as an opportunity to grab one of them on a semi reasonable multi-year deal given how deep this free agent class is.

All those guys have much better track records of health and/or performance than Carlos. Like this dude got non-tendered last offseason and came back to the Sox for $3M because that’s all the market would bear. I get how awesome he was last year, but if you QO him he was almost certain to accept it. If you don’t like the medical outlook of his shoulder and would rather investment that $18.4M into another pitcher then I don’t get why there is so much outrage over this. Again, we need to wait and see everything unfolds first. If they don’t replace him with a quality pitcher then I’ll be right there with you in assuming this was cheapness related.

Is Andrew Vaughn really that much more major league ready? He posted a 94 wRC+ vs. Lux’s 91 wRC+ last year. If you narrow the window, Vaughn put up a 134 wRC+ in July before slowing down, while Lux put up a 162 wRC+ in Sep/Oct. Honestly, I’d give Vaughn some edge, but I’m not sure I’d consider them massively different from a readiness standpoint as both are wild cards heading into the 2022 season.

Lux is a former 70 grade prospect who has only has one year of experience. I get he didn’t start the world on fire last season, but I guess I don’t get the reasoning for souring on him so quickly. If your scouts still believe in the talent, you may never be able to acquire this type of player for a guy like Vaughn. And say this as a huge Andrew Vaughn fan.

But have a bunch of LF/1B/DH depth is pointless if we have major holes elsewhere on our roster. Can’t expect to fill our needs in free agency, which means one or two of the corner guys will need to be moved.

Honestly, Vaughn for Gavin Lux makes a lot of sense for us if you go out and sign Conforto to be your RF. Then you go with a Sheets / Burger DH for 2022 with one of them being the heir apparent to 1B. No idea if the Dodgers would do that, but it’s an example of trading Vaughn to fill a need without forgoing the cost controlled benefit Andrew provides.

Thanks man! Not sure how anyone could consider this a worthless segment?! Seems like he revealed quite a bit and substantially more than I was anticipating.

What does that mean? Hints at what ceiling?

Citing payrolls before anything has happened means nothing. And the Sox finished with a $140M+ payroll last year I believe and that’s with COVID impacted gate revenue greatly reducing their opening day budget. Going up to $170M would be about a 20% increase and that’s off a deflated base. Zero doubt in my mind they don’t hit that figure. Honestly, I think $180M is a very realistic target, but gun to head I’m going with $170M.

They aren’t keeping Kimbrel, he will be moved.

I’m not suggesting Gausman or Scherzer will get $18M, they’ll likely get much closer to $30M. But the Sox may have much more confidence in them to deliver TOR production over the course of the 2022 season and be actual weapons come the playoffs. And paying for one of them may require concessions elsewhere…you’re right about that. It could still be worth it though, especially if your internal projections are low on Rodon next year.

There is zero chance that’s our offseason…none whatsoever. $180M is the threshold to have a top 10 payroll and that’s where Jerry generally plays when competing. If you want to be conservative, go with a $170M payroll then. Either way, you are taking Hahn’s lawyer speak way too seriously as he’s not going to come out and devalue his young players by saying “we desperate need to upgrade x position”.

Number two would reflect both his track record of health and performance and skepticism that can be repeat said 5 win performance. Number 1 was specific around the idea that they know for a fact his shoulder is fucked. Obviously there is a lot overlap between the two. But if you think he’s a 3.5 win pitcher next year if healthy and is a huge liability to help you come October, then yeah it’s very plausible there could be other guys they would prefer to allocate that $18.4M towards. And I’m not suggesting those other guys would be cheaper, but given there’s one rotation spot open at most to round out the roster you can’t QO Rodon and add another starter. It’s one or the other and maybe there is another free agent they really like. Harold seems to think they’ll make a run at Scherzer and I could see Gausman being a guy they’re all over. Both would be superior additions to Rodon if Jerry is willing to make the investment.

Should in theory be a good listen. Hopefully they get pretty pointed on whether this health driven or money driven, although is unlikely to reveal too much.

From my perspective, there are three options for why the Sox didn’t extend a QO to Rodon: The Sox are concerned about his medicals and ability to stay healthy next year The Sox have other pitching targets they like better and would rather invest in The budget is going to be limited and they need to spread that $18.4M around The first two would be very acceptable reasons to pass on a QO, whereas option three would be highly problematic for obvious reasons. Let me clear, if the Sox go into the season with Kopech & Keuchel as their #4 & #5 starters, then Jerry & the front office should be roasted for passing on the QO here. The Sox have to add another high-end starter to the mix, even if that means dumping Dallas at 50 cents on the dollar or forcing him into a long relief role to start the year. For now, I will give them the benefit of the doubt and assume it’s some combo of options 1 & 2 that drove the decision here.

They literally just fired their Director of Strength & Conditioning and are going in a new direction.

Both Fegan & Nightengale believe the Sox are moving in another direction.

I can lol…let’s take him off the list then

Yeah that might be a little problematic…lol

If it’s a short-term deal for a guy who’s proven to be far more durable than most starters a decade younger than him, I don’t see why Jerry would be against it to be honest.