royoung

QUOTE (Baron @ Aug 8, 2013 -> 05:43 PM) Which is why the White Sox in all their trades so far have not been getting any prospects in return and just dumping salary right? Yeah we are Marlins, aren't we? Same record, has to be the same philosophy right?

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Aug 8, 2013 -> 05:45 PM) I simply hate WAR being thrown out as the be-all, end-all discussion point in these situations. It's like we're back in Moneyball and we're ignoring the Grady Fuson group of scouts who are there to say, "Yes, but...." from having watched his entire career, his body language, his moping, his "banishment" from Toronto and tempestuous relationship with the fans. Of all the starting players on the White Sox since 2009, there are probably fewer Rios jerseys (being sported at USCF) than just about any player, which is telling, considering he's been our best player (arguably) in 2012 and 2013, but does anyone REALLY CARE about losing him or NOT watching him play another game in a Sox uniform? Will anyone say "it's such a shame" we will never watch Alex play for us in the future? Not many. And I know he's part of the reason (at least in the top five) that I haven't cared about the White Sox the last couple of months, waiting for him to be replaced by Garcia. It means value in the trade market, at the very least. Just because Garcia is available and he's being paid well doesn't mean we should give up something of value for nothing. Rios is being paid fairly for his level of production, we should be compensated in prospects to let that production leave our ball club, period.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Aug 8, 2013 -> 05:42 PM) In the Sox situation where they have few prospects to build with and few veteran players other teams covet it would be to their advantage to have as much payroll flexibility as possible heading into the offseason. As was stated earlier in this thread, cash is king. The first part is correct that we have few prospects and few veteran players other teams covet. But you know Rios is one of those guys. Rios=prospects and maybe some salary relief, but my focus would be the prospects. If the Rangers just wanted to absorb his salary with this claim and not give up anything, I'd be happy for this deal to not go through

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 8, 2013 -> 02:36 PM) Steve Stone couldn't have been more clear a couple days ago. He said that Cruz's taking the suspension caught the Rangers completely off guard and a number of people around baseball were saying so. Crazy to me if that's the case.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Aug 8, 2013 -> 02:37 PM) No. They can always reallocate those funds during the offseason. Its not like they wouldn't get anything. If they trust them to reallocate those funds in a better way then having Rios. Especially in this FA class, which is especially weak. Can't go much over slot in the draft and international signing nowadays, so not much room to spend there.

QUOTE (fathom @ Aug 8, 2013 -> 02:34 PM) Just remember, the Rangers thought Cruz was going to appeal his suspension, so it's very possible they claimed Rios and are now much more desperate to get him than they were at the deadline (Sorry if someone posted this already) I have a hard time believing they didn't know by July 31st what his plan was. I doubt he just up and decided to serve it without letting them know. His name has been attached to this all year, he and the Rangers had time to deliberate and form a plan.

QUOTE (Andy the Clown @ Aug 8, 2013 -> 02:21 PM) Financial flexibility is king in a rebuild. I would be livid, as you should be, if we just dumped him for salary relief. Everything the Sox have said and indicated through these moves are that we are "reloading" not "rebuilding." Rios has value, we might have to eat some salary to get a premium prospect, but it can be done. Dumping salary would be a cop out, especially after we didn't pay any of Peavy's outgoing contract.

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Aug 8, 2013 -> 01:57 PM) Also they just extended Ryan Raburn and he plays RF too. Yep. It's basically Rangers, Pirates or bust IMO. Anyone else would be a complete shocker

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Aug 8, 2013 -> 01:44 PM) This season, Nick Swisher has played 18 games in RF, 70 at 1B, and 17 at DH. Damn there goes that theory. I just saw that play where the ball goes off the wall and between his legs in RF. Gets me every time haha

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Aug 8, 2013 -> 01:40 PM) They did just DFA Mark Reynolds but Rios doesnt play the positions Reynolds does. But they could move Swisher to 1st and have Rios play RF where Swisher is currently...

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Aug 8, 2013 -> 01:29 PM) Yankees Ha. They really don't have much need for Rios since the Soriano deal. Could you imagine an OF of Soriano, Rios, and Wells though?

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Aug 8, 2013 -> 01:28 PM) So which team has lost a few in a row? We might surmise that Hahn thought he had a good match with one of those teams. Cleveland? Maybe he wanted him to clear waivers. In that case, this is much ado over nothing.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Aug 8, 2013 -> 01:25 PM) This is very plausible and very unfortunate. BAL is just slightly ahead of Texas in the claim order. Makes you wonder -- say if Hahn WANTED Texas to claim Rios, would it have made sense for him to watch the records and wait until they had lost a couple games before he officially put Rios on waivers, in order to give them the best chance of winning the claim? That would be really smart. But apparently he didn't do it.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Aug 8, 2013 -> 01:22 PM) We don't know if teams were asking for salary relief or not though before the deadline. Salary relief or not, Hahn was asking for, premium I think was the word, prospects back for Rios. Can't go from asking for legit guys to just dumping him.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Aug 8, 2013 -> 01:01 PM) This would be my guess. No way. Hahn was asking for the moon just a week ago. He would lose all credibility. If we were in a completely salary dump rebuild, then possibly, but we are looking for talent to help us back.

QUOTE (flavum @ Aug 5, 2013 -> 08:20 PM) Pitching change-- Garcia will be up with the bases loaded. Walk. RBI Love it. Was just having an argument with a Bill James Apostle who was convinced Avi will amount to nothing because he doesn't walk enough

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Aug 1, 2013 -> 10:47 AM) BTW Soxtalk, congratulations on the longest thread in PHT history. Next closest? Only 2,980 or something like that. http://www.soxtalk.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=80747 Nothing like a trainwreck to drum up interest! Also, woo!

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Aug 1, 2013 -> 10:15 AM) I genuinely don't believe you could be further from the truth here, at least regarding the first two points. #1) His assessment of Sale was that he did not believe he could make it as a starter. He did not have a good grasp on how good his slider was, but he had him as as a supplemental value because he believed he was a reliever. #2) The Sox DO put an emphasis on clean delivery. Mark Buehrle, Freddy Garcia, Jose Contreras, Jon Garland, Javier Vazquez, John Danks, Gavin Floyd, Hector Santiago, Jose Quintana, Dylan Axelrod, and I'm sure I'm missing a few too. The only two real exceptions to this rule are Chris Sale and Jake Peavy. The Sox traded Brandon McCarthy in part because they did not believe he would hold up over the duration of a season. They weren't wrong. When he was drafted, he wasn't concerned as much with a potential injury as much as a lack of a quality secondary offering and repeat ability with his delivery. He was completely wrong on his slider, but he specifics cites delivery and slot in his assessment that he will end up as a reliever. Now that he has found success as a starter, he is stating that he will break down in this role. So really, he hasn't gotten over the delivery and slot things. I understand that when the Sox have had hundreds of pitchers in the past 10 years, most are going to have clean deliveries. I think it's an interesting trend, however, that when they have to make an important value selection in the draft, recently they have gone with guys with questionable deliveries (Poreda, Sale, Danish) in the past 6 years. They all expected those guys to be starters, when the majority of teams thought they were relievers.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Aug 1, 2013 -> 10:00 AM) The problem is, even guys with "clean" deliveries get hurt. Pitching to me is like smoking. We all know it's bad for you, and pitching is bad for your arm, shoulder, elbow. Some people smoke all day everyday until they are 95 and die in a car accident. Some get sick and die from it in their 40's. It's easy to project Sale eventually getting hurt. I've done it myself. But really you could say that about any pitcher. I completely agree. I haven't seen an empirically evidence that pitches with 3/4th slot deliveries get injured more often the traditional deliveries and I highly doubt it exists. I have no problem with scooping up the Sale's and Danish's of the world because other teams are scared off by delivery. Interested to see how Danish's career progresses.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jul 31, 2013 -> 10:11 PM) I fully expect there to be some rumors related to Ramirez and Rios during the waiver process and as a result of such I'm going to leave trade winds open. I fully expect the Sox will make another deal during the waiver period (it might just be Lindstrom) but I expect another move. Agreed. Hahn said as much himself.

QUOTE (scs787 @ Jul 31, 2013 -> 05:38 PM) If you're looking at a prospect list, yes. If you're looking at what we need I would value Garcia more than Bradley. I may be alone on that. In a vacuum, yes I would say you are alone on that. Archie Bradley is 20 years old and already dominating AA. If you are looking at fits for the White Sox, I could see the argument that SP is a strength of ours, as we need young, promising hitters more. However, I believe you can never have enough good young starting pitching and it's the most important position in baseball, especially post steroid era. You can always trade starting pitching for hitters later if you have an excess. I don't think that Bradley was available though, he's gotta be untouchable, especially for Peavy.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Aug 1, 2013 -> 08:38 AM) Usually when you take a negative view, you will be. He's willing to be way wrong on Chris Sale and brush it off because there are several more guys that are supposed to turn into stars that will not. He comes out ahead. If he really was the player evaluating genius he thinks he is, he would be putting an MLB organization together, not doing chats for espn.com. He was completely wrong on Sale and now brushes it off saying he is going to break down soon due to his arm action, which is why he didn't like him in the first place. That brings me to my original point nicely though, he seems to put a high emphasis on a clean pitcher's delivery, for example, when the Sox obviously do not. Poreda, Sale, and Danish are the first few examples that jump into my head. Sox also seem to value athletic ability quite a bit, where he prefers more pure baseball skills. Etc etc

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jul 31, 2013 -> 04:12 PM) Really? Because he's a member of the White Sox? How about this from February November? http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/chat/_/id/...sider-keith-law but no he's White Sox and Law says death to everything White Sox EDIT: I would like to add this in, which I found interesting. From Tigers Prospect Report: http://tigersprospectreport.wordpress.com/...avisail-garcia/ So Keith Law hates the White Sox AND Tigers? That doesn't seem right, does it? Now, I would suggest looking up any team and Keith Law, and you will find that Keith Law does not "like" many teams. Again, I did not mean he is unprofessional and has a bias towards a certain franchise, I was implying that his way of evaluating talent seems to clash with our scouts and front office view talent.

QUOTE (DirtySox @ Jul 31, 2013 -> 04:06 PM) Wait. So you are telling me we didn't get an elite top 30 prospect who garners Miguel Cabrera comps mainly because he looks like him? The Keith Law hate is pretty funny too. He didn't like Sale before the White Sox drafted him, he must hate the White Sox. He didn't like Garcia before the White Sox acquired him. Clearly he hates the White Sox. I wasn't implying he has a bias towards the White Sox, I just believe he values certain things about baseball players that our talent evaluators do not and vice versa.

Red alert!! Houston and Miami are both winning! We could gain a game on #TheRoadToRodon!!!