royoung

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Aug 1, 2013 -> 10:47 AM) BTW Soxtalk, congratulations on the longest thread in PHT history. Next closest? Only 2,980 or something like that. http://www.soxtalk.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=80747 Nothing like a trainwreck to drum up interest! Also, woo!

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Aug 1, 2013 -> 10:15 AM) I genuinely don't believe you could be further from the truth here, at least regarding the first two points. #1) His assessment of Sale was that he did not believe he could make it as a starter. He did not have a good grasp on how good his slider was, but he had him as as a supplemental value because he believed he was a reliever. #2) The Sox DO put an emphasis on clean delivery. Mark Buehrle, Freddy Garcia, Jose Contreras, Jon Garland, Javier Vazquez, John Danks, Gavin Floyd, Hector Santiago, Jose Quintana, Dylan Axelrod, and I'm sure I'm missing a few too. The only two real exceptions to this rule are Chris Sale and Jake Peavy. The Sox traded Brandon McCarthy in part because they did not believe he would hold up over the duration of a season. They weren't wrong. When he was drafted, he wasn't concerned as much with a potential injury as much as a lack of a quality secondary offering and repeat ability with his delivery. He was completely wrong on his slider, but he specifics cites delivery and slot in his assessment that he will end up as a reliever. Now that he has found success as a starter, he is stating that he will break down in this role. So really, he hasn't gotten over the delivery and slot things. I understand that when the Sox have had hundreds of pitchers in the past 10 years, most are going to have clean deliveries. I think it's an interesting trend, however, that when they have to make an important value selection in the draft, recently they have gone with guys with questionable deliveries (Poreda, Sale, Danish) in the past 6 years. They all expected those guys to be starters, when the majority of teams thought they were relievers.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Aug 1, 2013 -> 10:00 AM) The problem is, even guys with "clean" deliveries get hurt. Pitching to me is like smoking. We all know it's bad for you, and pitching is bad for your arm, shoulder, elbow. Some people smoke all day everyday until they are 95 and die in a car accident. Some get sick and die from it in their 40's. It's easy to project Sale eventually getting hurt. I've done it myself. But really you could say that about any pitcher. I completely agree. I haven't seen an empirically evidence that pitches with 3/4th slot deliveries get injured more often the traditional deliveries and I highly doubt it exists. I have no problem with scooping up the Sale's and Danish's of the world because other teams are scared off by delivery. Interested to see how Danish's career progresses.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jul 31, 2013 -> 10:11 PM) I fully expect there to be some rumors related to Ramirez and Rios during the waiver process and as a result of such I'm going to leave trade winds open. I fully expect the Sox will make another deal during the waiver period (it might just be Lindstrom) but I expect another move. Agreed. Hahn said as much himself.

QUOTE (scs787 @ Jul 31, 2013 -> 05:38 PM) If you're looking at a prospect list, yes. If you're looking at what we need I would value Garcia more than Bradley. I may be alone on that. In a vacuum, yes I would say you are alone on that. Archie Bradley is 20 years old and already dominating AA. If you are looking at fits for the White Sox, I could see the argument that SP is a strength of ours, as we need young, promising hitters more. However, I believe you can never have enough good young starting pitching and it's the most important position in baseball, especially post steroid era. You can always trade starting pitching for hitters later if you have an excess. I don't think that Bradley was available though, he's gotta be untouchable, especially for Peavy.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Aug 1, 2013 -> 08:38 AM) Usually when you take a negative view, you will be. He's willing to be way wrong on Chris Sale and brush it off because there are several more guys that are supposed to turn into stars that will not. He comes out ahead. If he really was the player evaluating genius he thinks he is, he would be putting an MLB organization together, not doing chats for espn.com. He was completely wrong on Sale and now brushes it off saying he is going to break down soon due to his arm action, which is why he didn't like him in the first place. That brings me to my original point nicely though, he seems to put a high emphasis on a clean pitcher's delivery, for example, when the Sox obviously do not. Poreda, Sale, and Danish are the first few examples that jump into my head. Sox also seem to value athletic ability quite a bit, where he prefers more pure baseball skills. Etc etc

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jul 31, 2013 -> 04:12 PM) Really? Because he's a member of the White Sox? How about this from February November? http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/chat/_/id/...sider-keith-law but no he's White Sox and Law says death to everything White Sox EDIT: I would like to add this in, which I found interesting. From Tigers Prospect Report: http://tigersprospectreport.wordpress.com/...avisail-garcia/ So Keith Law hates the White Sox AND Tigers? That doesn't seem right, does it? Now, I would suggest looking up any team and Keith Law, and you will find that Keith Law does not "like" many teams. Again, I did not mean he is unprofessional and has a bias towards a certain franchise, I was implying that his way of evaluating talent seems to clash with our scouts and front office view talent.

QUOTE (DirtySox @ Jul 31, 2013 -> 04:06 PM) Wait. So you are telling me we didn't get an elite top 30 prospect who garners Miguel Cabrera comps mainly because he looks like him? The Keith Law hate is pretty funny too. He didn't like Sale before the White Sox drafted him, he must hate the White Sox. He didn't like Garcia before the White Sox acquired him. Clearly he hates the White Sox. I wasn't implying he has a bias towards the White Sox, I just believe he values certain things about baseball players that our talent evaluators do not and vice versa.

Red alert!! Houston and Miami are both winning! We could gain a game on #TheRoadToRodon!!!

Jon Morosi ‏@jonmorosi 1m Executive with another team described the Rangers as “active” in these final moments before deadline. Stay tuned, folks. SWEET MOTHER OF GOD..no it's not for Rios.

QUOTE (Baron @ Jul 31, 2013 -> 01:48 PM) I'm good with keeping Rios I am going to talk myself into it too. His value seems to be quite low right now, let's see what the off-season brings. Also, this may mean Garcia gets to spend more time in the minors, which I think he needs.

QUOTE (Jose Paniagua @ Jul 31, 2013 -> 01:48 PM) How does he 'long hold' anything for a guy who just turned 22? That makes him sound like some finished product He did go on to say... "In Garcia's defense, he's just 22 years old and did not belong in the big leagues this year, so he at least has the time to develop an approach at the plate. The White Sox likely view him as a potential middle-of-the-order bat, which would more than justify the trade for Peavy, although I'm less sanguine because of Garcia's lack of adjustments." I support this notion, why rush him to the majors this year when we have nothing to play for? He's got a lot to work on in Triple-A and he's still extremely young.

Also, can someone with an account post what baseball prospectus wrote on the trade? I heard they view it positively for the (White) Sox

From Keith Law.. "What you think of the White Sox' return for Peavy depends largely on what you think of Garcia. I've long held that he's an extra outfielder, or below-average regular, a player with some tools but very little baseball skill or instincts, especially at the plate where he appears to have no plan at all." Surprise suprise! He hates a player the White Sox love! In other news, the sun rose in the East this morning

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 31, 2013 -> 01:29 PM) What else would Hahn say? We have to make trades and shed payroll ASAP? I'M FREAKING OUT! I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT I'M DOING!! WHY WON'T ANYONE TAKE RIOS!!?? Would of been more interesting soundbite

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 31, 2013 -> 01:17 PM) See, this is where I would argue we should have been trading pieces that had some perceived value. Keep the guys that are semi-productive that no one wants, but deal the guys that are younger and cost-controlled for better prospects. I know the Org probably thinks we aren't that far away, but I disagree. The odds that any of the guys on this current team are going to be major contributors to future success is relatively low, IMO. Trading Reed, De Aza, Beckham, Sale (gasp), could have brought back a slew of prospects that would form the basis of our next core. I think that route would have been preferable to the half-ass re-tool we are doing yet again. Sale would of created a big splash, big unless you are getting a surefire young front line starter and all star position player back, it's probably not worth it. Unless you are in the camp where you think Sale is going to break down soon.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 31, 2013 -> 01:08 PM) I don't have a problem letting Garcia tear up charlotte for another month. His minor league track record of dominance is pretty sh ort. Exactly

QUOTE (TaylorStSox @ Jul 31, 2013 -> 01:04 PM) If they don't move Rios, they have to start taking away AB's from Konerko. Call Garcia up and shift Viciedo to DH. I know the Sox would never do this, but I think it wouldn't be a terrible idea to give Garcia some more time in Triple-A. He basically flew up from A+ to the majors and still has a lot of work to do on his plate discipline. He just turned 22, he's younger then basically all of our top prospects (Phegley, E. Johnson, Trayce Thompson etc etc).

QUOTE (hi8is @ Jul 31, 2013 -> 01:00 PM) I will cry. Just not much interest in a guy who is due to make 30 million over the next 2 and half years who has effort issues and is aging quickly. Especially when Hahn was asking for the moon.

QUOTE (danman31 @ Jul 31, 2013 -> 11:46 AM) Hey, it's not my fault the trade details finalized around 11 p.m. Get a late trade, get a later post. Thanks Dan, love reading future sox posts!

Dan Hayes ‏@DanHayesCSN 1m Sounds like #Rangers aren't interested in Alex Rios. Not sure on #Pirates or #Yankees but wouldn't be surprised if he stays w/ #WhiteSox. Welp

QUOTE (Jake @ Jul 31, 2013 -> 11:58 AM) If Dunn went to Texas, he'd be beloved and their GM would be hailed as brilliant. He'd continue to knock in runs for a team that really needs it and they wouldn't have to give up anybody that the fans are familiar with to get him I really am surprised Dunn isn't attracting at least some buzz. The dude is raking over the past two months. Money would be an issue I guess, but Sox should eat some.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 31, 2013 -> 11:54 AM) No, it means they are willing to move anyone to make a trade to get better. They probably don't want to move many more prospects and so they are willing to move pieces from their mlb club. So gave up a substantial package to acquire pitching a week ago, now whoops wait let's get rid of pitching to acquire hitting?

@Ken_Rosenthal: Remember yesterday when @jonmorosi and I said that virtually all of the #Rangers were in play? List includes Garza. Rangers are apparently selling when only 5 back in division and 1 back in wild card?? What the f*** are they doing??

QUOTE (GoGoSox2k2 @ Jul 31, 2013 -> 11:25 AM) 24 hours ago I may have complained.. but at this point I want to get Garcia on the field and make room for him. Hoping we eat some salary and get something of value back tho In this market, he does have some value, despite his best attempts to kill it. Best case scenario, we get a projectable prospect package back (similar to what Boston gave us), and we eat cash.