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QUOTE (lasttriptotulsa @ Jan 15, 2015 -> 10:49 AM) So you wouldn't put Tom Glavine or John Smoltz in the Hall of Fame? Yes Player C is Buehrle if he pitches 5 more seasons at the same level as his last 5. By the way Buehrle is at 51.8 fWAR today. So by your 60 fWAR rule he is only 3 of his average seasons or 2 of his good seasons away from at least being in consideration. I'm not saying that, I'm just saying I don't buy the logic that "if guy A is in, similar guy B has to be in" in general because there are so many mistakes there already. The 60 fWAR rule was a Bill James "rule of thumb" I read in his book, I think.

QUOTE (lasttriptotulsa @ Jan 15, 2015 -> 10:16 AM) Not yet, but if the scenario that I laid out earlier plays out I really need you to explain to me why two of these guys are first ballot Hall of Famers and why one of them is not even close. Player A - 305-203, 3.54 ERA, 118 ERA+, 4413.1 IP, 2607 K, 1.314 WHIP, 3.1 BB/9, 5.3 K/9, 1.74 K/BB, 64.3 fWAR Player B - 213-155, 3.33 ERA, 125 ERA+, 3473 IP, 3084 K, 1.176 WHIP, 2.6 BB/9, 8.0 K/9, 3.05 K/BB, 78.7 fWAR Player C - 263-207, 3.81 ERA, 117 ERA+, 4108 IP, 2323 K, 1.283 WHIP, 2.0 BB/9, 5.2 K/9, 2.54 K/BB, 67.0 fWAR Well, I don't buy the argument that just because one mistake was made, we need to keep making more. Like, for example, Jim Rice does NOT belong in the HOF, but he's there. Does that mean we have to induct every guy better than Jim Rice now? I say no. That said (I'm assuming Player C is a projected Buerhle line if he did 5 more years at his current level), if a guy eclipses 60 fWAR, he should usually at least be considered.

QUOTE (lasttriptotulsa @ Jan 14, 2015 -> 01:13 PM) His 3.81 ERA is high for the Hall when looking at it without context. The average HOFer has an ERA of 2.98 and the highest is Red Ruffing at 3.80. The average ERA+ of starters in the HOF is 123, Buehrle sits at 117. Some others around that number include Warren Spahn (119), Bert Blyleven (118), Steve Carlton (115), Gaylord Perry (117), Fergie Jenkins (115) and Nolan Ryan (112) The average HOFer also has 253 Ws, 3801 IPs, 2153 Ks, and 70 bWAR. Those are all numbers that Buehrle can reach should he choose to. I used bWAR here because with the talk about FIP and its inaccuracies with pitchers like Buehrle I felt it appropriate even though it is generally less accurate. If you look strictly at bWAR, Buehrle would currently be ranked 47th amongst HOFers with a chance to move to the top 25-30 if he keeps pitching. Buehrle certainly has some detractions that will probably keep him out. He never really came close to winning a Cy Young, he was never viewed as being that dominate and he didn't really have a pitch that was memorable. I.E. Ryan's fastball, Big Unit's slider or Blyleven's curveball. Again, I don't think he gets in, but it would certainly not be a joke if he did. He has already had a better career than some inducted and would move to the middle of the pack if he pitches another 5 years. Overall he was not one of the best pitchers to ever play the game, but he was above average and at time significantly above average. Combine that with his consistency and durability and he really has been one of the most valuable pitchers that we've seen. The bolded lines are not consistent, IMO. It takes more than an above average player to make the HOF cut. Buehrle is awesome; not even close to a hall-of-famer.

QUOTE (knightni @ Jan 15, 2015 -> 07:41 AM) Tyler Flowers was tied for #12 in MLB in WAR by catcher last season (2.3) Right, so he was middle of the pack with a .355 BABIP and a 21.1% HR/FB rate. Also, he's #20 of 30 by fWAR at 1.8

Still need a starting catcher. There, I said it.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jan 13, 2015 -> 05:48 PM) I loved Coopers quote and I love every bit of how Buehrle pitched. He is one of my all time favorite pitchers to watch for the way he did things. Maybe that is just something that stat people can't appreciate but he was awesome to watch pitch. He was and is extremely unique on the mound. I'm criticizing the terrible writing, not Buerhle.

Classic Phil Rogers contradictions, lol: Wtf? Lol, and his opening argument is Buerhle made 30 startas abunch of times, rofl. Also, this gem from Don Cooper: Lol, that's awkwardly precise there, Don. "Oh man, he practically only shakes off signs point six six repeating times per season."

Ugh.

QUOTE (pettie4sox @ Jan 13, 2015 -> 11:06 AM) Why the hell would you trade prospects for a rental? If the SOX traded for this guy for a year, they are dumber than I thought. Whether or not he signs an extension, they bought ONE YEAR of him for those prospects. If they decide to offer him a contract top buy more, that's fine, but it's a separate deal. Whether we like it or not, they DID buy a rental. And the move needs to be evaluated based on what they bought rather than what they will be in the future.

He's going to free agency.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 12, 2015 -> 01:17 PM) Top 3 are as good as it gets. Back of the rotation? Ugly. 8-10 makes sense to me. Agreed

QUOTE (southside hitman @ Jan 12, 2015 -> 09:37 AM) Chris Beck at #6 is interesting as well. 2015 will be a big year for him Yeah, aggressive on Beck. However, after reading the whole article, it looks like it's more about them being down on Micah/Hawkins/etc. than high on Beck.

I found Soxtalk before WSI and never looked for anything else. The way you guys talk about it is intriguing, though -- sometimes I want to start posting there just to see how long it takes me to get banned.

Weird

QUOTE (Douglas Rome @ Jan 8, 2015 -> 04:13 AM) you snort it, you inject it, you suck on it, whatever, in my America, you never see the HOF. Same goes for the gamblers, Pete was a great player but he @#$%ed up. Some of these baseball writers are voting for the PED users, don't they get it? thanks, douglas The problem is that there are a ton of players you consider "model" hall of famers that did this stuff a bunch, but the media just didn't care. John Milner reported buying amphetamines from both Willie Mays and Willie Stargell, for example. Paul Molitor admitted to using cocaine. Orlando Cepeda was actually ARRESTED for smuggling marijuana into the country from Puerto Rico. Which, to me, doesn't bring up the issue of the Hall being "tainted" as much as it shows me that this stuff is only a big deal if we decide to make it a big deal. As of right now, you know that Willie Mays used amphetamines on the field, and I'm guessing you're going to let that slide into the back of your brain and still consider Willie Mays an inner-circle hall of famer.

QUOTE (LDF @ Jan 5, 2015 -> 09:49 PM) having the smoke clear from the trading tables, how would you evaluate the field. in the AL the only team that seems to have done a nice job of rebuilding, acquiring missing pieces would be the Red Sox. however i know there are some very good pitchers on the FA market that can turn the tables real quick. 1. Sox 2 Bos, 3. Det tie Yanks. national league, i am not too good here. thoughts???? NL is headed up by the Nationals and Dodgers. Cardinals aren't too far behind, especially if they get the "front end starter" they're rumored to be seeking. Another team to watch in the AL is the Mariners.

QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Jan 7, 2015 -> 06:04 PM) You don't just dump a 25 year old 20 plus homer guy that quickly. He can still fill a role for the Sox, if not traded What role does a bad hitter/bad defender/bad baserunner fill?

Yeah, he's a pretty clear-cut HOF guy, IMO. His problem was he excelled at things that were underappreciated by the public (not necessarily by players/managers) at the time he was active.

QUOTE (pettie4sox @ Jan 6, 2015 -> 03:34 PM) What are people's beef with Mark Cuban? My impression is that he's a bit of a loose cannon -- he'll do whatever it takes to be successful, even if it's eccentric. That's great for fans, but I get the sense that the MLB owner's club wants guys they know are willing to play nice with the status quo.

JR doesn't have a moral imperative to spend all his money on the Sox any more than any of us have a moral imperative to spend ours.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jan 5, 2015 -> 04:24 PM) EB .291/.341/.380 DV .291/.331/.507 Is that career? I am guilty of just looking at 2014 here. Last year: EB: 170 wRC+ (97 career) DV: 81 wRC+ (124 career) DV has been getting worse every year, but EB may be a dead-cat bounce that won't repeat.

QUOTE (Lillian @ Jan 5, 2015 -> 05:13 PM) This is a happy thought: http://bleacherreport.com/tb/dfJaD?utm_sou...icago-white-sox Please discuss. I believe this refers to the article being discussed here: http://www.soxtalk.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=94246

You'd think Viciedo would be there.

Considering Bonifacio hits lefties WAY better than Viciedo does, and Bonifacio is a competent or maybe above average OF defender... I really, REALLY hope Viciedo isn't on this team. I'd DFA him, honestly. I know, I know, but this isn't a "see what we have" season anymore. Jordan Danks is a much more valuable bench asset for 2015.