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QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jun 23, 2017 -> 10:57 AM) I don't view the Bulls rebuild that differently from the Lakers. Both teams keys to success will be a combination of the draft and FA. If Bulls are going to succeed, at some point they have to hope they can sign in two stars. The downfall is we will be contending with the power of LA and we have Gar (vs. them having Magic). I actually don't think Paxson is a negative to FA's (he's not Magic Johnson)...but Gar and the stuff on him is just bad news. It will be nice if we get some transcending player (or two or three) via the draft as well. But I wouldn't be shocked if next year Bulls are going all in on 2018/2019 to sign two guys. Would have been nice if Lavine wasn't a RFA at the end of the year (would be great to have an extra year having him on a good contract...as that would have given Bulls a lot more time to lay low on cap space while accumulating assets). Except players have time and time again said they want to play for the Lakers, Paul George being the latest and will likely head there after this season. When was the last time someone came out and said they want to play for the Bulls?

QUOTE (Tony @ Jun 22, 2017 -> 11:56 PM) That's an interesting point I haven't seen anywhere. I don't see Q moving in the next 10 days or anything, but IF that somehow did happen, and there was still a plan to move guys like Robertson, Kanhle, Swarz, ect...you better be careful because the starting rotation probably isn't going to give you much on a game to game basis, and that bullpen ERA is going to start to rise. We do have a guy named Carlos Rodon on the verge of coming back.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jun 22, 2017 -> 10:51 PM) KC Johnson had this blurb in his article (which I haven't seen anyone talk about). I'm looking at Zoom for my answer (if he hasn't had too many fancy beers). What is the unique structure in Rondo's contract? I presume Rondo's option somehow counts (and a team can walk away from it)...so technically Bulls can leverage the cap exeption and Rondo to help facilitate moves when FA opens (and ideally accumulate some picks)? Or am I being way too optimistic? Apparently Rondo's contract is only guaranteed $3 mil is waived before 6/30. I see no chance of him not being waived by then.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jun 22, 2017 -> 08:32 PM) Are you implying we are going to go heavy in FA? Who is even worth going heavy in FA? Hayward is obviously good...but he isn't coming to Chicago. This is wishful thinking, but sign Griffin or Hayward, and in 2018 after we let Wade and Rondo walk trade RoLo and we have only around $45 mil committed to Griffin, Lavine, Dunn, Markkanen and Portis. May be enough to draw two FA's in next years loaded class.

Interestingly we're $27-28M under cap right now without offering QO to Niko or MCW. Is that why we traded away the 16th pick?

QUOTE (ZoomSlowik @ Jun 22, 2017 -> 07:09 PM) Don't forget they traded 2 firsts to get McDermott. If they take Markkanen, I will personally disembowel GarPax. Lauri Markkanen is Finnish for Andrea Bargnani. Yea I forgot about that. If I'm an NBA GM, I'd call Gar Forman everyday. At least I know I can take his balls and some draft picks with me. Dude is absolutely clueless.

We managed to trade McDermott, Gibson AND a pick for CAM f***ING PAYNE. Now we have to trade Bulter AND a first round pick for Torn ACL, future bust, and a 7th pick? This is the worst FO in the history of NBA!

To say Lavine was a poor man's healthy Derrick Rose is overstatement. So why exactly do we want another athletic player with a torn ACL after just getting rid of one?

So essentially Jimmy for Lavine, Dunn, and a pick in the 10-14 range. GTFO GarPax.

At end of the day, we aren't siginig any high schoolers, so if Sheet signs for overslot but we still sign Skoug, I'm sure no one would complain. But I think many has expected Skoug to be an overslot signing.

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Jun 21, 2017 -> 04:37 PM) Yet there were analysts surprised he wasn't picked higher The fact that he wasn't, and that he was universally ranked lower than he was drafted tells me he won't get overslot from many teams, especially whopping $600K overslot. I think this could really impact our ability to sign Skoug.

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Jun 22, 2017 -> 01:30 PM) Rather build it around Wiggins than Dunn though? If I was the bulls and Butler isnt in their long term plans I could be convinced to do something like 7+ Wiggins + Future 1st (could be pretty far out). Then id try and use that #7 to jump and get Fox. Or I guess you can just try and get the Suns to deal #4 and future picks for Butler. But if I could get Fox + Wiggins for Butler Id at least feel like I have a chance at making the Bulls something competitive. I'm not too big on Dunn. But yes, if we get both Fox and Wiggins for Butler, I'd take it.

If I am to rebuild, I'm not sure if I want to rebuild around Wiggins. Dude is going to be a scorer, may in the caliber of Melo one day. He has a high perceived value due to being a #1 pick, but I'm not sure if he does enough of anything else to be the 3rd best player on a championship team.

Gave him the bonus of a 34th pick, but was ranked from 57th to 68th prospect per BA, MLB, and ESPN. Pretty sure no one else would have gave him $600K above slot.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jun 21, 2017 -> 09:55 AM) Wade opting in should tell everyone what they should expect regarding Buckets. Pretty much seals the fate for any Butler trade. I suspect they will settle for that European PG and a couple of end of bench guys and call it an off season. (God forbids they signing Iggy, talk about a horrible fit). I think 2018 offseason is when we see the real actions take place. Wade and Rondo coming off the books, Butler and RoLo are the only guaranteed contracts in the books. We may make another FA push then, or just trade those two for picks and completely tank for next 2-3 years.

QUOTE (Sox-35th @ Jun 21, 2017 -> 03:06 PM) 1987-1991 is not "before Jordan" A rebuild essentially ends once you land a superstar. Once that happens, you build around them, but you no longer tank because you no longer need to Huh? I think that's why I said.

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Jun 21, 2017 -> 09:57 AM) The Bulls were bad before MJ. Outside of 1980-81 the Bulls were sub .400 from 1978-79 through 1983-1984. The point of the MJ comment was that even after the Bulls selected arguably the greatest player in NBA history, it took them over 5 years to get to the NBA Finals. And I understand how valuations work. Which is why the Bulls would be getting a lot more future picks than present picks. There is a lot of risk involved, but the more picks you have the more you spread out the risk. At this point Butler is the best trade piece the Bulls have to somehow get themselves on a track to the NBA Finals. I do not believe that a mid/late round pick + expiring contracts will get them anywhere. Except that the Bulls won an average of over 50 games from '87-91, made 2nd round, 2 ECF, and finally the Finals during that time. I would not call that part of the rebuild. Take that MJ example for a second, even after you collect all your picks 5-7 years from now, it will still take you a number of years to develop players and chemistry before becoming a true contender. If that fails, you'd start over again.

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Jun 20, 2017 -> 05:09 PM) The problem is supposedly Celtics said "no" to 3 straight up. Who knows if that is true, but I am trying to work in the framework of the rumors we are being told. And 5-7 years to win a NBA Championship is being realistic. Jordan was drafted in 1984, Bulls first Championship was 1991. Its hard to imagine scenarios given the current state of the NBA where the Bulls would be able to win a NBA Championship faster than 7 years from now. Come on, Bull did not have a 7 year rebuild plan in the 80's, they were consistently in the ECF before they won the Finals. There's a difference between having their plan working out in the 7th year and having a plan that includes a return in 7th year, who may turn out to be a bust. There is no guarantee that Cavs will be a bottom 5 team by 2020; one would have expected Spurs to fade post Duncan, or the Lakers to fade after Kareem, Magic, or Shaq left or retired, it's not always a guarantee. A first round pick 5-7 years from now is worth A LOT less than a first round pick 1-2 years from now in the NBA.

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Jun 20, 2017 -> 04:33 PM) Im not running the Bulls, I wouldnt do any of that. But if the Bulls want to trade Butler this year, then I am going to discuss what I believe to be the best possible deals this year. So what the Bulls wont get full return until 2024? The reality of the NBA is that it is hard to believe the Bulls are going to be a Championship level team in the next 7 years? So why not do something to put themselves in the mix to be one of the teams who are Championship level in the next go around? Allegedly Boston said no to #3 for Butler. That isnt even a great deal for the Bulls. 1 top 3 pick isnt going to change their trajectory. They need multiple high level picks. If they cant get them in the next 2-3 years, may as well aim further out. And just because its rare for a GM to do it, doesnt mean its not the right move for the team. (edit) Illini, Well part of the reason you aim even further out with the Cavs is that James is 32. in 2022 hell be 37 so who knows if he is even an elite player at that point. Not saying these are the best packages Bulls will get, but if given a package of #3, and 2 mid first rounders vs. 3 Cavs first round picks from 2020 and beyond, you'd pick the first package. The latter offer is too far out and comes with a lot of unknowns. If any GM is planning for a 7 year rebuild, they should fired.

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Jun 20, 2017 -> 04:11 PM) Celtics arent worth dealing with right now. If they wont even give up #3 there is just no point even discussing. If they are really going to move Butler, I think the best idea is something really outside of the box like trading for Cleveland's picks in 2020/beyond. The Bulls then will suck hardcore for the next 2-3 years and then by that time Cavs will likely suck too, so youd be looking pretty good in 5 years. So you wouldn't take the 3rd pick this year, but would take some unknown slot picks from 3-5 years from now? It's rare to see GM willing to settle for that far in advance because they may not be around by that time. You also have to take into consideration you can't have two consecutive years without 1st round pick, so you might have to settle for Cavs 2020, 2022, and 2024 1st round picks, which means you won't get full return from the trade for 7 years.

After Skoug and rest of top 10 signs, we may still have $400K plus the $100K base offer, which could be enough to nab a mid-tier high school or JuCo kid. We may very likely just be pocketing the money after the Robert signing, which is disappointing.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 20, 2017 -> 03:41 PM) With amounts being released for Burger, Gonzalez, Johnson, Dedelow, and Olson, the Sox are $825,900 ahead of their draft pool cap. Is that the number before they go into pick penalty? They should have gamble on a couple of high schoolers at the start of Day 3.

So the only HS kid that we have a small chance of signing is Dylan Horvitz, 38th round pick. Not much scouting report available on him, likely not a projectable prospect. Even if we have leftover money from the underslot signings, it doesn't look like it's an exciting year for draft pick signings.

QUOTE (Jenksy Cat @ Jun 20, 2017 -> 02:53 PM) Pickup Dwight Howard & Jason Terry. Make a run at the Warriors Can't tell if this is serious.

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Jun 19, 2017 -> 02:31 PM) I dont disagree. I just disagree with the value. Josh Jackson shot sub 60% from FT. He is not a very good shooter. There are some other guys who id take over him if I was completely restarting a franchise. Because they are more boom/bust, and with GSW being the team to beat, you need scorers. (edit) I think the part you keep missing is I dont really want #3 in this draft. Id rather get more future picks than the #3 in this draft. if I had the #3 and i was rebuilding, Id probably take Fox. Jackson improved as a outside shooter as the college season went on, and he still was averaged over 16 points a game and shot over 50% as a freshmen despite not having a reliable jump shot. Shooting is the last thing to develop for NBA players so I'm not worried about it at all. Let's not forget some of the best two way players today, Jimmy, Kawhi, Greak Freak all came into the league as athletic defenders and developed offense overtime. If we want to go back further, Wall, Westbrook, Derrick Rose, Kobe, T-mac, some kid named LBJ all couldn't shoot before they got into the league. Jackson definitely was the talent to develop into an elite two player.