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QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Jul 3, 2017 -> 07:15 PM) West >> East No argument there. I just keep hearing that all these east guys going to the west makes it even easier for LeBron. The Pacers/Bulls/Hawks even with George, Teague, Butler and Milsap had no chance of beating Cleveland. We'll see what happens with Hayward. Word is he could make his decision later tonight. Instead of Celtics signing Hayward and trading for Butler or George, those two went West instead. You're telling me that didn't just make Lebron's path to the Finals easier?

QUOTE (turnin' two @ Jul 3, 2017 -> 03:58 PM) Yeah, well, he is hitting 100 points below that level. Walks are great and all, but if a guy doesn't show the ability to hit, pitchers are just going to attack him, and the walks will decline then disappear. He needs to hit. By no means am I calling him a bust or anything like that, it is his first full season of pro ball and he has time. But he has to hit. For a guy that was billed as an advanced college bat, it is a bit concerning to see him struggle to hit in his second go round in A-ball. If he were doing what he did last year (.258/.418/.467), most people would be happy with him even though it isn't progress. To this point, this season has been a step backwards (offensively) , and in terms of player development, that is a failure. Yes, he has gotten better defensively, but defensive catchers are a dime a dozen, it is that bat that could make him special. The bat needs to start showing some progress, it is scary that he has shown that he may be better suited for Kanny than Birmingham. As I mentioned before, I think his hit tool was overhyped. He was "only" a .300 hitter his first two years in Miami then exploded to .360 hitter in his draft year. His K% was relatively high in college. The hitch in his swing is a concern. All in all, there are more red flags in his hit tool then some let themselves to believe. Let's not pretend that he could just flip the switch and become an all star level hitting catcher we thought he could. Not saying he's a bust or he can't improve, but there is a lot of work he need to do to even become an average hitting catcher in the majors.

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Jul 3, 2017 -> 04:38 PM) He's going to hit though. Even if he's a high OBP with power, if he stays at catcher, it's a win. If he's like a .265/.365/.450 guy with a bunch of homers and walks, he's likely an All-Star behind the plate. That's a BIG if. Nothing he has done in the first full year of pro ball suggests he could do that. It's pretty evident now that the hitch in his swing is causing issues in making solid contact.

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Jul 3, 2017 -> 04:26 PM) Cavs, Celtics, Raptors, Wizards, Bucks, and Heat are all likely playoff teams. I think Charlotte and Philadelphia are too. That leaves the rest. NY, Orlando, and Detroit are all better than the Bulls. Bulls will be battling Brooklyn, Indiana, and Atlanta for the basement. Most of those teams aren't much better than the Bulls, so they could luck into a win on any given night. If they're in the West, Bulls would be a lock for the last place.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Jul 3, 2017 -> 03:35 PM) To be fair, the top 4 east teams from last year are still the top 4 east teams going into next year. The Hawks, Bulls and Pacers were middling playoff teams even before they lost their guys. If the Bucks and especially the Sixers show improvement the conference won't be any worse than last year. There's a significant drop in talent after the Cavs, Celtics, Raptors, Wizards, and maybe the Bucks. We will see who suits up for the Sixers first. Outside of Celtics, literally no one is trying to get better in the East. And even though they tried, Celtics still have a long way to go from really challenging the Cavs. So you can mark down Lebron in the Finals again in 2018. And the talent disparity for the two conferences is insane. If you list the top 10 players in the league, you have Lebron and maybe Giannis from the East, then who else?

With Millsap and Teague moving West, that makes it 4 current/former all stars moving West, and 0 coming back East. The East is seriously terrible. The Bulls will have a tough time competing with the tankers next year.

Free Carlos Perez. Give the kid more PT.

QUOTE (SleepyWhiteSox @ Jul 1, 2017 -> 01:59 PM) And yet the Pelicans, with a full year of Anthony Freakin' Davis and Demarcus Cousins, still will not make the playoffs. Crazy. They would be a top 4 team in the East.

So Jrue freaking Holliday gets a 5/126 deal, could possibly going up to $150 with incentives. That only makes Butler's contract for the next two years look like a f***ing bargain. Still couldn't figure out how we didn't get a better deal than we got. I'm wondering if we could have gotten a better deal had we waited till free agency start, after the outrageous contracts are being hand out.

When Lebron's career is all said and done, he will probably break every NBA playoffs and Finals records. How did he get there? His team is a lock to make the Finals every year, there hasn't been a legit contender in the East since 2010. The East is seriously weak, two of their top 5 players just got traded to the West. The Celtics are a joke, all the assets in the world and couldn't pull the trigger.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jun 30, 2017 -> 03:42 PM) Should the Bulls play in this free agent market? Yes, we just flipped Butler...but should the Bulls make a run at any of the free agents on this market? Essentially, move Butler to get more assets (with upside) while then using his contract today to get a player of similar (albeit slightly lesser value) such as Gordon Hayward or do you get Blake Griffin? I know everyone on this site is pro tank and therefor we should wait two years to sign someone...but next year there are some quality free agents and another year from now more....I guess the question is what is the pacing / approach to do it. If Rondo opted out and with Butler gone...I think we could give Gordon or Blake max (separate question is whether they are worth it) and surround them with the other players...waiting a year for Wade to come off the books before flipping him for another free agent. I'm not suggesting it...but just throwing it out there given speculation that there is a 4th team interested in Hayward. I'm also not saying any of those players would even want to come here either. That was what I suggested on draft night. Going after a near max level FA this year could possibly put us in better position for the 2018 free agency, where if we deal Lopez, we could possibly afford two more near max players (depending how Lavine's extension is structured). Say if we sign Blake, Lavine returns to form, and one of Markkanen, Dunn, or Portis turns into a solid starter, this team suddenly looks like a much better landing spot in 2018.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jun 29, 2017 -> 11:40 AM) They aren't much different then the Bulls. Look...we can say Gar and Paxson aren't very good anymore, but there is no arguing that over the past 10-15 years, the Bulls have been at the very least a top 10 NBA team and a consistent playoff team (Rockets are in a similar boat). I laugh at everyone who says the Bulls have the worst front office in the league. QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jun 29, 2017 -> 12:25 PM) Doc Rivers is the worst GM in the league, so you are missing the Clippers. And I disagree with you completely...most GM's in this league wish they could have the track record that John Paxson has had over his career. When his time comes (and I am perfectly fine moving him), people will look back long-term at John Paxson as being a good GM. Even Gar...as much as I don't like the run-ins with the front office and the fact that he is slimy...our historical drafting has been pretty good. 2016's draft got us two potential role players. Valentine & Zipser. Not saying either are great players or even starters in this league...but given where we picked, as of today, that is solid value. Additionally, 2015's 1st round pick (Bobby Portis) while inconsistent looks like a guy who can play in the NBA. Again, not a starter, but a solid role player. The Bulls heavily relied on young players (more so then all but a couple teams in the league) and they were the only team who actually won games. When people say they don't trust this front office or a rebuild...I would say I don't trust this front office (cause Gar is just a slimy dude) but their history of drafting has been very good (and that is over a long-term period). Yes, we had some years with misses, but from a relative value perspective, the last two years provided us with three guys, who at this point, appear poised to be role players (and given where we were picking...that is solid relative value). Who knows what can happen, but lets not act like we've been some horrible drafting team...the Bulls haven't. Anyone who says they have are delusional and has no perspective on how likely draft picks are to flop, etc. I hate defending this front office, but some of these statements are just so ridiculous and ignorant of a long-term track record that was pretty good. Everyone thinks its easy to win championships but it isn't, especially in the NBA, and the best front office people may not ever win one because somewhere in the equation...luck can be involved. QUOTE (bmags @ Jun 29, 2017 -> 01:01 PM) Joe Dumars put together an improbably dominant team in Detroit before completely hamstringing it with terrible trades and signings. He was a fantastic and truly terrible GM in one tenure. Paxson was a good and then terrible executive in his tenure, and a fine record 5 years ago isn't enough to keep your job after the horrendous execution following 2011. The bulls front office has: - punched out a coach - Fired a coach for criticizing behind closed doors - Undermined a coach publicly for a year before firing him and encouraging players to trash him to the media - Hired an inexperienced coach from college - Publicly undermined that coach - Overseen a medical staff that has very nearly killed a player, cleared one to play with a broken leg, and oversaw a chronically injured team. Was never fired, eventually left on their own. Fired Jen Swanson after a year though, guess she didn't get on the loyalty train. - Traded 2 first round picks to move into the 11th spot to draft a one dimensional college 3 point shooter who couldn't rebound or steal in college. He was terrible. The two picks were much better. - Drafted Marquis Teague - Drafted Tony Snell - Drafted Denzel Valentine - Overvalued Niko Mirotic, he'll leave for nothing - Signed Rajon Rondo. He was exactly what you thought Rondo would be, except he also turned out to be improbably the most decent human being in the org. So I'm not going to talk too much crap on him. - Signed Dwyane Wade - Thought a team of Butler Wade and Rondo was really good (they were bad) - Refused to go over luxury tax after 2011 losing Korver and Asik for nothing. It all ended up okay though because they signed rip hamilton. - Continue to pay rip hamilton for the rest of time - Let DJ Augustin and Nate Robinson go but made sure that Kirk Hinrich would live forever - Refused to include Taj Gibson for anything, waited until he was least valuable, then traded him and Doug McDermott for 3 players with negative PER - Demanded coach play them - They were terrible - Coach got team to playoffs by benching them They have been terrible managing the team they put together for 5 years, culminating in trading their best asset for a rebuild and not acquiring future assets. It's cool he used the assets he inherited from Krause to get draft picks that created the 2011 team. But he's been terrible since, he's run a drama-filled embarrassment of an org culture. I agree with Bmags here, there are a lot more failures Pax and Gar should be remembered for than the few draft hits and the lucky ping pong bounce. I will get to that later. I think the best moves GarPax has made are drafting Noah, Rose (no brainer), Taj, Butler, and signing Thibs. This is essentially what lead them to being anywhere from a first round playoff team to a conference finalist the past 8-9 years. But more than the moves they made that failed, the FO also failed big time on the moves they didn't make. They have lucked into getting the first overall pick and turned it into a superstar, but have consistently failed to make the big move to turn the team into a real contender. The biggest acquisitions during the Pax and later Gar era are Ben Wallace, Boozer, Paul Gasol, and Wade. while missing out on the likes of Lebron, Melo, KD, Harden, Paul, Iverson, KG, Bosh, Howard, Kobe, TMac, VC, the list goes on. Being one of the marquee franchises in NBA, and with so many players having roots in Chicago, having only those 4 big name acquisitions to show for in the last 15 years is downright unacceptable. Specifically on trades, over the past 6-7 years the Bulls were a playoff team or even a playoff contender. But they always needed another scorer or a shooter to put them over. But year in and year out, this FO sit idly as the trade deadline goes by. Their lack of creativity to pull off any significant trade is well-documented. I'm not evening going to bring up trading Aldridge for Ty Thomas or signing of VDN as a head coach during the Pax era.

Talk about a dramatic improvement. 2016 Guerrero in AA, 73/108 BB/K ratio. 2017 Guerrero repeating AA, 19/100 BB/K ratio. If we can even just get Kopech, Hanson, Dunning and Guerrero to pan out as starters, whatever Giolito, Lopez, Fulmer, Stephens and Burdi becomes is just the cherry on top of the cake.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 28, 2017 -> 01:16 PM) For those with the ability to see into the future with such clarity, can I get the winning powerball numbers for the next drawing? MLB prospects are total crapshoot to begin with. But starting your career off as a low .200 hitter just puts greater odds against the prospect to succeed. Sure he might turn it around like Carlton Fisk, but 99.9% of the time he does not.

QUOTE (bmags @ Jun 28, 2017 -> 09:06 AM) Flowers to me was the epitome of the flawed execution by Hahn with the last group, where he took a club weakness and replaced it with essentially probable veteran marginal upgrades. In the future, if we are going to get rid of someone providing average production to the club, we better do it with a big jump in talent. Our journey to upgrade ended up shuffling out players we'd have been better off keeping for players we hoped would replicate career years that never came. Come on dude, not even sure if it's sarcasm. I don't know what Hanh has to do with this because ironically, the Braves did exactly what Hanh was doing, took a weakness and made marginal upgrades, and Tyler Flower turns out to be one of the best catchers in the league the last 2 years. Even more ironically, one of the "marginal upgrades" we brought in to replace Flowers was injured and didn't perform last year. But now that he's healthy, he's also one of the best catchers in the league this season. If the bolded part was easy, every team would be doing it right? And we're talking about catcher, of all positions. It's one of the hardest positions to replace with "big jump in talent". All in all, we had talents and potential at the position the past few years, we just did not have the right coaching staff to unlock them. But truthfully it fits in with the trend the past decade for the Sox, every position player we brought in end up having their worst season as a hitter. I'm glad we sort of reverse that trend this year with several young guys having breakout years.

Let's look at the facts here. Collins was "only" a .300 hitter for his first two years in Miami. That bumped to .360 during his draft year. However he's slumping at .222 in pro ball in almost one full season of at bats. His strikeout rate in college was also relatively high at almost 20%. He has a hitch in his swing. So aside from the good year he had as a junior, he has been a below average to poor contact hitter. It's becoming apparent that the hit tool is overhyped. He's still has plus plate discipline and can draw a ton of walks (I wish prospect evaluators would decouple plate discipline from hit tools when evaluating prospects). He'd most likely have to fix his swing to have success in upper minors and big leagues. Even if he reaches the majors, he's likely no more than a .230 hitter, but with an OBP of .300 or better and a .400 SLG.

It's going to make their league best offense even better, but they still cannot defend.

QUOTE (Dam8610 @ Jun 27, 2017 -> 11:41 AM) This is all great, and I don't mean to take anything away from what he's doing, but haven't we seen this before? He pitches otherworldly for the first 5 months, then falls apart in September. That's going to be the real test for him, especially since he'll probably be pitching in October for the first time in his career. I'm sure someone can spend time and do a more detailed year to date analysis, but on the surface it looks like his velocity, slider % and swinging strike % all seen dramatic increases. Even if he regresses in the second half, those number would still be better than in years past by year end.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 27, 2017 -> 10:47 AM) Someone voted Gar Foreman for Exec of the Year. Bulls Talk‏Verified account @CSNBulls 2h2 hours ago Who voted for Gar Forman for Executive of the Year? Conspiracy theories: http://bit.ly/2tQ836N It could be Presti, Thibs, or the Denver GM. Nurkic and Garry Harris both had breakout years.

This 2017 version of Chris Sale is for real. Looking at fangraphs: - Manged increased his swinging strike% by an incredible 5% this year, his 16.2% swstr now leads MLB, and is by far his career best. - FB velo increased by 1.5 MPH, 2nd high FB velo since becoming a starter - Mixing up his pitches, throwing 29.2% slider, by far the highest since 2013. - BABIP is consistent with his career norm - Benefited from move away from the cell. HR/9 is lowest since 2014, when he posted a 2.17 ERA All in all, it seems like Sale is going all out and maximizing his talent, the only concern is if his skinny frame will hold up till playoff time.

Is Robert going to play in the States this year, or will he be stashed in DSL all year for tax purposes?

QUOTE (steveno89 @ Jun 26, 2017 -> 12:11 PM) Eaton is a very good player on a long term contract. That was not going to come cheaply, not matter what. Giolito/Lopez stock would likely be down, but Dunning's stock should be up. I still feel like it could end up being a fair deal for both teams. Had not been Eaton's injury, I doubt that's the case for the Sox. In order for them to get fair value back, one of the three pitchers would have to generate the same value (WAR) for the Sox as Eaton would have over the course of his contract. The probability of that happening is not likely. The whole Sox fleeced Nats narrative was an overblown.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jun 23, 2017 -> 08:02 PM) Niko will be back. I don't mind seeing it as long as it's just a QO, not a new contract. With him and Markkanen on the court at the same time, it should give Lavine and Wade plenty of spacing to work with.

QUOTE (scs787 @ Jun 23, 2017 -> 05:34 PM) I'm sure its been brought so I apologize, but what is the Bulls cap situation the next few years? They can't free up max money for a Hayward or Gallinari right? Just for pure entertainment reasons, do the Bulls have cap for Gallinari or Gordon. Gallinari in particular would make this a pretty exciting team. Rondo and Canaan will almost certainly be waived by 6/30, They will likely renounce rights to Niko and MCW as well, which would bring them to around $38M under cap once Markkanen signs.

QUOTE (JenksIsMyHero @ Jun 23, 2017 -> 11:38 AM) Wade? There weren't much of a market for Wade. Wade picked us primarily for the $$, but he was by no means a top tier FA anymore, which we need a few of those to turn the ship around. QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jun 23, 2017 -> 12:29 PM) Actually the past few years, the Lakers have lost out on every single priority free agent they wanted (hence Mozgov / Deng signings of a year ago). I expect that story to change and the Lakers have a leg up on us (from a pure marketing ploy in a sales pitch...imo). For the Bulls to hit on their strategy, they will need to win free agency. They have actually hit on free agency in the past....it didn't work out the way they wanted and I have no idea what the Wade news does / sends around the league. But people are crazy if they think we can get good without hitting in free agency (it has to be an integral part of any plan given the current climate of the NBA). Do we actually hit...heck if I know...put us against the Lakers and we will likely lose to them...put us against a lot of other teams and I'd argue Chicago is in a strong spot. There are better locations though but a lot of that is circumstance based. I don't remember if the Lakers were in pursuit of Durant, Lebron the past few years, however Howard publicly demanded to play LA right before that. Part of the reason they weren't competitive in the FA market is the team wasn't truly in rebuild until Kobe retired. Now they have a strong young core lead by a pass first PG, it's going to be hard for the Bulls to compete with them for the top FA's going forward.