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QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Jul 31, 2017 -> 02:48 PM) Where's Puckett fit in here? A high floor back of rotation starter, I would put Puckett in the 45 FV bucket.

QUOTE (Palehosefan @ Jul 31, 2017 -> 02:32 PM) Not talking smack, just curious how someone values Dunning over Lopez. Lopez has been fantastic at Charlotte, which is the best hitters park in the league. He also has plus stuff and is only 23 years old. I feel like he's constantly overlooked in the system, even being a top 50 prospect. He's all of 9 months older than Hansen and 11 months older than Dunning. I think he will be a hell of a #2 to Kopech for years to come with the Sox. I would say... 1. Kopech(easy) 2. Lopez 3. Hansen (slight) 4. Giolito (debatable, I'm in the Coop will fix em camp) 5. Cease 6. Dunning 7. Guerrero 8. Adams ... 37. Ballpark Vendor 55. Pat Daneker 79. Carson Fulmer In all seriousness, it's an abundance of riches. Even Guerrero at #7 has a good shot as a #3/#4 rotation lefty. That's how I view them as well, although I think Fulmer ends up being a quality late inning reliever, which has a lot of value too. 60 FV Kopech 55 FV Hansen Lopez Cease 50 FV Giolito Dunning Burdi 45 FV Guerrero Stephens Adams Fulmer Flores Clarkin

QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Jul 31, 2017 -> 11:06 AM) I know not many people agree but I'm still of the opinion that Hansen is our 2nd best pitching prospect even with just being in WS. Kid is a monster. It's either him or Lopez. So I don't disagree.

Tilson should go back to AAA next year after missing the full year, Cordell and Liriano should be ahead of him on the org depth chart.

If we trade Holland, MiGo and Pelf, who's going to pitch rest of the season? Call up Lopez? Volstad? Should we start stretching Leury's arm now so he could pitch more than 1 inning? I am not sure if these guys are worth trading, will probably go for guys we will never heard of again, e.g. Blackmar and Chalas.

QUOTE (Alexeihyeess @ Jul 30, 2017 -> 10:42 PM) I have no problem with the patient approach or rebuilding from scratch the way they are. I just think the goal should gradually shift starting this offseason from intentionally losing and sabotaging the ML squad at every turn to a more win now mindset. Not overnight, not over the course of one season, and not at the expense of the talent they've acquired already. I cant make that clear enough. No trading Eloy Jimenez for a rental, that is not what I want to do. I just think after they lock in the high draft pick this year they should start looking at trying to compete sooner rather than later, and its better for them long-term if they finish around .500 next year than if they lose 100 games in 2018. As of the conclusion of this season it will be more important for the young players they have now to be successful together at the major league level than it will be to keep stockpiling minor leaguers. Moustakas is the guy I'd really like to sign, but really only if he were to take a 4 year deal (and we wont know how feasible that is until the offseason). He just makes too much sense, and the Sox may be able to score him cheap while everyone else has their eyes ahead to the next year. Harper and Machado will not be going to the White Sox, anyone holding out hope for that is out of their minds. We are in YEAR ONE of the rebuild for Christ's sake. What did you expect a rebuild is going to be like. You're all of a sudden expecting a team that's literally been stripped apart in every direction to suddenly finish back up to .500 next year? How the heck are they going to do it? The rotation and bullpen you suggested, and the signing of Moustakas you also suggested will put Sox nowhere near .500 next year, unless they sign more FA's, something they should not be doing. One other thing to consider is why spend money on big free agents when you can defer payroll till 2019 or 2020 to spend on players when you have a more realistic shot at competing. I just don't see anyone in the FA class next year Sox should jump the gun to go after. I just don't think rushing to get back to .500 is important enough for them to take on risk in big contracts or rushing prospects next season. Look at team like Cubs, Astros, Royals or even Rockies, they have all gone through multiple (as in more than 3) years of sucking and irrelevancy before becoming good teams again. Astros (who went 51-111 in 2013!) had Altuve, Jason Castro and Keuchel, Cubs had Rizzo, Castro, Arrieta and Hendrick, Royals had Hosmer, Gordon, Moustakas, Cain, Escobar, Herrera, Holland and more, Rockies had CarGo, Blackmon, Arenado, and LeMahieu; these are players who were part of multiple losing seasons and then went on to become stars or at least played important parts on their future winning team. So I am not concerned at all if Moncada, Lopez, or Kopech have to sit through another bad year in 2018 before the team takes off in 2019 or 2020.

QUOTE (bmags @ Jul 30, 2017 -> 09:52 PM) Yeah, well said. The average is cool, but SSS and Arizona. But the BB:K ratio and percentages are exciting to see. I am definitely more excited about the BB:K ratio than the batting average, it's pretty impressive for a high school kid who didn't play baseball full time. I honestly thought he would be putting up Keon Barnum numbers.

What Sam Abbott is doing as a high school pick is so refreshing to see in this White Sox system. Once he develops some power, look out.

Ghengis Hahn strikes again. Serious, how better are the prospects Tigers got back for a rental of JD Martinez? I'd say not that much.

QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Jul 30, 2017 -> 12:40 AM) Sorry, I meant the pre-fight stuff. I got you. That could be he basis for some of his antics. He sells himself as a family man, proud father of three, model champion yaddy yaddy yada, but he talks like a 23 year old trying to be cool. Also putting his hand on Jones neck at one of weight ins early in their feud was also uncalled for. So yea, maybe it's just me, but I never bought DC as a true good guy. The fact that Jones is a heel and a bum may make Cormier seem like a better person to some.

QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Jul 30, 2017 -> 12:28 AM) You can't blame DC for that imo. Jones cost that dude a ton of money when they were originally supposed to have their first 2nd fight. And Jones was the ultimate fake good guy for the longest time until he got caught being an ass. In the end, it doesn't matter as Jones is just the better fighter. Dude is only 30 and might be in the GOAT discussion already. I don't blame him If he walked off without a post fight interview after just getting knocked out. But it's pretty much a tradition in the sport to stand in and let the ref and Buffer announce the decision. I understand he's emotional over the fight but if he was a model champion like he said he is, he would have shown better sport in defeat. As much as I despised Connor early on, he's truly humble in defeat and that's quality you can root for.

QUOTE (raBBit @ Jul 29, 2017 -> 11:16 PM) Even money I take Jones of course but I'm not nearly as confident as some. As someone else said, Jone has had one fight in the last 2.5 years and he looked like s*** against OSP. If DC is right that Jones is a steroid guy maybe there is something in this fight. Regardless, it's easier to root for the good guy D.C. over the scumbag Jon Jones. Dude I agree Jones is a bum but DC to me is a fake good guy. Watching all of his interviews or promos about Jones he constantly uses Jones' misfortunes and demons to make himself look like a bigger person. Making a scene at the end and won't even let big John hold his hand is just poor sports.

QUOTE (Alexeihyeess @ Jul 29, 2017 -> 06:59 PM) Take a look at this year's Twins. Same division as the Sox and they are one game under .500, are you really telling me the Sox can't do better than that next year? That same team that has a worse run differential than the Sox? Sorry to break it to you, they didn't come into the season looking to contend, they just were incredibly lucky record wise.

QUOTE (Alexeihyeess @ Jul 29, 2017 -> 06:42 PM) They came into this season with trash and spun it into gold. I wouldn't worry too much about the pen. They'll find some guys this second half they like. Again, if you're hoping to spin bullpen trash into gold, then you aren't looking to win 81 games. Just stop.

QUOTE (Alexeihyeess @ Jul 29, 2017 -> 06:37 PM) Rodon, Giolito, Lopez, a free agent and Shields. How is that even comparable to the 2016 rotation we have, when we had better offense, a better bullpen, and still did not win 81 games. You do realize Giolitto needs more work in the minors, and we don't know when and if Rodon would take the next step and become Sale. If that is the rotation you're suggesting, that your goal isn't to win .500 next year, it invalidates everything you have posted in this thread.

QUOTE (Alexeihyeess @ Jul 29, 2017 -> 06:25 PM) They get to .500 by having a slightly below average club to start the year that gets progressively better as new arrivals come from the farm before ending the session in a good note. Signing Moustakas would not be a move simply for 2018, he'll still be around in 2019. Itd actually be shrewd to be a little extra active in 2018 free agency if everyone holds back to save up for the next year's feeding frenzy. I hope you don't suggest signing Moustakas will put this team on track for .500 ball next year. If your response is we will hand out more $$$ to sign other guys, I would tell you why do it in 2018 not 2019, when you can better assess where your holes are, not to mention a much strong FA class. Heck, even when we had prime Sale, Q, career year from Adam Eaton, 40 HR from Frazier, and a much stronger bullpen in 2016, we didn't even win 81 games. Just think for one moment how many holes we have to fill, and how many other free agents you will have to sign to get there, and to accomplish what exactly.

QUOTE (Alexeihyeess @ Jul 29, 2017 -> 06:02 PM) Its not rushing. Kopech could easily be 100% ready this time next year (in fact, that's his exact trajectory) and Jimenez was considered by the Cubs MLB ready. They just didnt have a spot for him. Jimenez at the very least is forcing a AA callup (you could argue the Sox are wasting time and hurting his development leaving him in W-S much longer), and from there it's only one step to AAA. See what Boston did with Devers? It's not out of the ordinary to rocket a guy up to the majors who is playing well enough to justify such a quick ascension. I dont disagree to call up Kopech next season if he shows improved control in AAA, but we don't know if that's going to be May or September. You keep pointing out Cubs thinking Jimenez is ready, but the fact is they assigned him to A ball and didn't even call him up to AA the whole season. You say we cannot trust Hahn or this front office, but rather choose to hang on to one quote by the Cubs FO from the past. Going to back your earlier point that Sox's goal is to get to .500 next year, how do you suggest they do that if Kopech and Jimenez isn't up by July or August or even later? Do you suggest to promote them in May regardless if they're ready and let them sink or swim? Why put goal record-wise when you don't know who is ready for a promotion next year? I am not sure if that accomplishes anything besides signing wrong free agents and limit yourself in the 2019 class and risk of rushing prospects.

QUOTE (Alexeihyeess @ Jul 29, 2017 -> 05:55 PM) I think they can and should try to complete and on a game-by-game basis. I think they should not lose on purpose the way they are losing now. I think .500 next year would be a success. Whether they will do any of things is up to the front office. To say with complete certainty they will pick 1.1 next year is equally presumptuous as saying they will win the ALC. As for the one defending Rick Hahn's honesty, this team has not been forthright regarding injuries. They don't have to be, it's not a knock, but they don't have a problem lying. To say they are losing on purpose is where you're mistaken. Players are still competing and giving their best effort (they are still playing for their next contract mind you), and competing on a game by game basis. Whether they are winning or losing next year is irrelevant because we know the team is only going to get better when rest of the core arrives.

QUOTE (Alexeihyeess @ Jul 29, 2017 -> 04:14 PM) There's a lot more to baseball than just adding/subtracting WAR numbers. This year's team has clearly quit, they are fine with being walked all over. WAR is not going to capture the aura of dread that surrounds the current squad. It's ok to have one season like this, but losing is a plague. I dont think it's a good idea to have an MVP talent like Moncada waste his service time on a team that won't be trying to contend this decade. Cubs lost 101 games in Anthony Rizzo's rookie year, and 96 games the year after. So all of a sudden Rizzo became a bad baseball player cuz the team didn't surround him with the right talent? There is absolutely no point in rushing other prospects development just because Moncada was more advanced than the rest. The risk of ruining guys like Jimenez and Kopech by rushing them up is far, far greater than letting Moncada get use to perennial losing.

I don't like the idea of batting Moncada in the middle of the order this early in his career, where he will be pressured to contribute more with his bat and power than his speed. I see him as the lead off hitter on the 2020 team, so might as well get him the experience he needs there.

With Alvarez moving to AAA, I am surprised they didn't move Flete up to AA to play 2B. Kid looks ready for it.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jul 28, 2017 -> 01:01 PM) This is actually where I will agree with you on Reinsdorf. As the owner of a company, you hire people to run a company. Let them run the company. He has control over who runs the company and the general vision of the company (in the case of baseball, contend or rebuild). If a company is not performing well, the owner needs to put pressure on the staff and cut ties when needed. JR's loyalty to his employees are well known in both of his teams, allowing mediocre management to continue to run the teams when they should have been let go. A successful owner wants to win at all cost, winning translates to more revenue in sports. There is a reason the Sox saw their attendance, revenue and franchise valuation plummet in recent years.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jul 27, 2017 -> 05:50 PM) Done, traded for Drew Smith. Feels like the Sox got a better return for Dan Jennings than the Mets did for Lucas Duda. That blows my mind. Duda is a rental. Jenning is an effective LOOGY controllable through 2019.

Looks like Robert is close to a return. Back in uniform per IG.

Kopech has a resting pitch face. Purse looks like some guy from a Will Ferrel movie. Hansen is just epic, probably gets half of his strikeouts with that face.