thxfrthmmrs

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 19, 2017 -> 07:06 AM) Yeah, I tend to agree with your take here. It's very easy to start bundling anything left of value that we have to go after "that one last guy," but you probably are going to lose out on additional value had we been patient and taken a calculated risk. I find it difficult to accept the argument that a guy that is currently dominating at the ML level is likely to regress to nothing, but simultaneously throw a ton of stock into a kid from A-ball becoming a good mlb player. I argued that it might be worth it to do this for a guy like Robles, and so if the White Sox truly believe in Rutherford, then it is difficult for me to criticize the FO. But I agree with you and some others here - we likely overpaid to get "our guy," and I truly do think Kahnle has a chance to be a pretty dominant reliever for the Yankees as they make their run over the next several years. Yes, the only reason to accept a deal like this is if Rutherford is your guy, and you value him higher than the industry ranks him. (Trading 3 quality ML'er for one top 40 guy is not a good return). The bolded part nails it. I also find it funny that some guys want to treat it as if we traded Robertson for Clarkin, when in the Nationals thread they wanted guys like Kieboom, Soto, etc for Robertson. Clearly we also did not get good return on Robertson either. I like Rutherford a lot, but still feel like this isn't quite enough. A top 10 guy like Andujar, Adams, Sheffield or Mateo instead of Polo would have made this deal much more palatable.

QUOTE (Jerksticks @ Jul 19, 2017 -> 03:39 AM) Yea but I think ultimately, as others have posted, the Sox wanted to cash-in on Kahnle and avoid NateJones-style risk. And as Hahn mentioned in the presser, Rutherford is a guy the Sox have been really high on for some time. Seems like a perfect storm of being able to get the guy you want for only bullpen arms and shedding a BUNCH of salary. Can't dismiss the money savings- just the other day it seemed like the Sox would have to kick in a bunch of money just to get B&C level prospects for DRob and Frazsh. The cost is selling Kahnle at maybe .80 on the dollar. The plus side is no more Kahnle risk, the guy you want, and about 20M dollars. Not bad for .80. I get both sides and I hated the deal at first, but now I'm all aboard. The other guys have serious upside too! I don't like that mindset, that we need to trade every reliever as soon as they become good, but before they become great. Nate Jones has always been an injury prone. Same cannot be said about Kahnle. He's also have relatively low mileage on his arm, and his delivery doesn't put him at more risk than others. With that mindset, we may as well find new relievers every year because chance of them imploding the next year is so great. Anyways, I think in this case, the potential return outweighs the risk. I'm also not sure if we're going to put the salary saving in use. We're not expected to compete next year, and the FA class is weak. And we can't overspend on international signing like we did with Robert either.

QUOTE (Alexeihyeess @ Jul 19, 2017 -> 12:06 AM) Sox killed the Yankees on this trade. They only took Frazier to spite the Red Sox, and seeing what JD Martinez fetched there's not a lot of interest in average-ish second half rentals so even if he was only used to grease this deal its worth it. Robertson is nowhere near the big relievers traded last year, you really think his stock improved that much from the Trade That Wasn't which would've netted the Sox Luzardo and Ward? Clarkin or Polo alone are worth Robertson. Kahnle for Rutherford is robbery. Robertson for two C level prospects? While he's not Chapman or even Andrew Miller, you are undervaluing him a lot here, especially with him being one of the few true closers available for trade. There are already several teams called about Robertson, and Yankees were bidding against the Red Sox here. Remember when most people expected a Top 100 prospect for Robertson just a couple days ago? That should have been the target. Let's not move that target to justify this trade. We also traded Kahnle prematurely, given how underwhelming the total value we got in return. There is always a chance he's only a flash in the pan, but his peripherals and stuff says it's unlikely. He's making real improvements to his velocity and and absolutely shatters his previous swinging strike%. Both FB velocity and SwingStr% are among top 10 in the league. FIP and xFIP suggest he's elite. He's actually been unlucky with a BABIP much higher than career norm. There is a real chance he could be Andrew Miller (or close to it), if we waited it, we could have gotten a much better return next year.

564 users on this thread. Is this a record?

The way I see it Frazier for Clarkin, D Rob I expected to get a top 50 prospect. Rutherford is a top 40. But Clippard weighs down the offer. Without Kahnle, we would have slightly won the trade. Let's see if the last name is interesting.

Honestly thought Frazier/D Rob is enough if we were to take back Clippard. Kahnle is someone we should have held on for much better return next year. Underwhelming deal for once.

I'm cool with Jay Groome and Chavis.

QUOTE (Dam8610 @ Jul 18, 2017 -> 03:19 PM) You think the Tigers aren't going to ask the moon for Martinez? They probably asked for Rodgers. If the Sox can sell Avi for a good price now and undercut the Tigers while doing it, they'll be doing the next competitive roster a huge favor. I guess your question is answered now?

QUOTE (Dam8610 @ Jul 18, 2017 -> 02:46 PM) Why do they want J.D. Martinez? Avi isn't Martinez. Martinez has a more proven track record and as a rental player commands less of a return. Also, other teams in the division have called on Martinez, Rox may just be driving up the price for division rivals.

Why would Rockies want Avi, they have a crowded outfield as is. Parra, Blackmon, Tapia, Desmond, Cargo, and David Dahl just started a rehabbed assignment and could be back in a few weeks. I think they have more pressing needs.

Compared to other segments on the Network? I think it's one of the most popular and talked about segments.

I enjoyed it a lot, and it's gotta be the most watched thing on the Network outside of PPV and NXT. 205 Live is uninteresting and just lost Aries. I think it's a combination of things for Vince, but if I have to guess what triggered it it's when Sasha went off on Alexa after GBOF. Feelings must have been hurt.

So Talking Smack has been cancelled because Vince feels it's not best for business... The man needs to go away.

So Talking Smack has been cancelled because Vince feels it's not best for business... The man needs to go away.

The catching position in the lower level is probably the strongest of any position. Alfaro, Skoug, Hickman, Perez, Cooper, and Colina are all legit or fringe prospects and are having a pretty good start to the year. I'm hoping one or two of them graduates to Low A soon. But of course, there's a lot more to a catcher than just hitting the ball. Can't tell how those guys are progressing outside of that department.

Don't know what's happening to Alex Call. He's extended his stay in AZL way beyond expectation. He's now an ugly 2 for 47 down there. It's not like he's striking out a ton, but just hitting an insane number of ground balls. P.S. He's blocking our water polo star down there.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 15, 2017 -> 02:23 PM) Whatever it was, they obviously weren't going to spend it. This guy got $1.35 million to sign. Hopefully he is a late bloomer. So that's almost Adolfo money. Still a young guy. Even if he doesn't improve discipline, if he could develop double digit pop while staying at short, he could be an interesting B or C level prospect.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Jul 14, 2017 -> 10:35 PM) He really has no business still being down in the AZL. Skoug is defying logic, still has a BABIP of 1.000 after 15 plate appearances. You think he can keep it up?

I hope Hahn's starting price was Mookie Betts

Sucks for him but it's not the worst thing in the world for the team. He's pretty close to majors anyways but we aren't competing for the next year and a half. This only delays his service time to align more with the younger guys.

QUOTE (Jenksy Cat @ Jul 14, 2017 -> 03:41 PM) But it's not baseball, windows are so much shorter in the NBA unless you're the Spurs or have Lebron. You basically have to wait out the current crop of prime superstars that all are willing to take less money to play with their buddies and hope the next crop isn't like that. Why does it matter? It's not like anyone would know if and where the free agents will join up next. We're just speculating if a team would be good in the future. What if the Celtics become like the Warriors, growing superstars through draft behind great coaching system, and a superstar actually flees his home team and join up with them. Celtics themselves could be a good landing spot for ring chasers in a few years.

QUOTE (JenksIsMyHero @ Jul 14, 2017 -> 12:34 PM) Heyward just signed a 4 year deal and Horford has 3 left. Horford's already 31. Their window is within the next 2 years if those guys and Thomas are their big three. Brown is going into his second year and Tatum will be going into their first. Even if both guys end up being all-star caliber, it's going to be 3-4 seasons before they get there. If they aren't in win-now mode, then I'm not sure what Ainge is doing. It makes no sense spending money on Horford, Heyward and presumably Thomas if they are planning to wait another 2-3 seasons to really go for it. I don't disagree that they missed a golden opportunity with PG and Butler. Heck I even posted about it last week. It's just that they have so many young assets and picks stockpiled that they will likely be good for a long time.

QUOTE (JenksIsMyHero @ Jul 14, 2017 -> 12:03 PM) They're not useless, but they're not as valuable. Celtics need veterans to round out their roster. They don't need prospects with upside. They're in win-now mode, not win 3 seasons from now. I think Ainge is making a mistake not cashing in his assets. You don't have to empty the shelf, but it's head scratching that he wouldn't trade one of those lottery picks for a legit star. If you're a Celtics fan, wouldn't you rather have Jimmy Butler over Tatum? I would. I disagree. Celtics by no means are in win now. Thomas and Horford aren't declining soon and they by no means are irreplaceable. They just were a rebuilding team that got better sooner than they expected. I think in Ainge's mind, Celtics' window is whenever they materialize their picks and Lebron starts to decline.

Ghengis Hahn has pillaged the local village this time.

It is an absolutely original joke I by no means stole from elsewhere on this forum. Oh it's true, it's damn true.