Paulstar

QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Jul 23, 2013 -> 12:42 PM) We can have them and the Red Sox bid against each other for a package of Rios and Reed. Boston is looking to replace Nava in the OF. Are you crazy or know something we don't? Rios would be a downgrade compared to Nava right now.

QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Jul 23, 2013 -> 12:44 PM) Let's be honest, trading Santiago makes no sense. Your best hope is a prospect turns out as good as him and he's far from peaked. If you can get a young impact bat for Santiago or Quintana, that's a trade that would make a whole lot of sense for the Sox. However, any trade like that would likely take place during the offseason.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jul 23, 2013 -> 12:28 PM) Both players are 24 and in AAA. .288/.369/.487/.855, 16 homers .318/.359/.567/.926, 18 homers The top is Andy Wilkins. The bottom is Terdoslavich. They do not appear to be similar players - Terdoslavich being a more aggressive, stronger hitter, while Wilkins is more patient and can work a count - but I don't see enough difference in potential value to make that a worthwhile trade. I understand it's all speculation for the sake of conversation, just putting in my two cents. Terdoslavich is a switch hitter and can play LF, so he has that going for him, and he is also considered a much better prospect who is up with the Braves right now. I think if you can get Terdoslavich and another decent prospect like Tommy La Stella, that's not a bad deal.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 23, 2013 -> 12:39 AM) Not nearly enough, IMO, compared to the Garza haul. I think Peavy for Matt Adams straight up would be a good deal, that's how good he can be. However, I don't think the Cards have any intention of letting Adams go in any deal.

QUOTE (flavum @ Jul 22, 2013 -> 05:00 PM) The Brewers should absolutely be able to void his contract, and have Braun go away forever. I'm so sick of these s***heads. That would be a reward for him because I bet he would get a monster contract in free agency (even though his contract does jump up to 19 million in a couple of years). Braun got away with nothing but a slap on the wrist. Still technically has never failed the MLB drug testing policy, is losing out on only about 2 million dollars (I'm sure he can survive off of the 5 or so million he has already collected this season), and gets an extra two months of vacation during a terrible season for the Brewers. The MLB pretty much let Braun off the hook just so they could avoid losing the appeal again.

QUOTE (beck72 @ Jul 22, 2013 -> 04:32 PM) I'm just saying that the sox need to get a top position player back in a deal for Peavy. Olt wouldn't have been my choice. So there are many other teams that fit besides Texas. Sardinas wouldn't have headlined a deal-much like Edwards, a good 2nd prospect. FWIW, I'd like the sox to be able to get Sardinas sometime soon, without a Peavy deal. I actually like Odor above Sardinas, and it would be nice if the Rangers want to give him up this deadline to for a reliever.

QUOTE (beck72 @ Jul 22, 2013 -> 04:26 PM) Cubs have Javier Baez at AA, #2 ranked SS in the minors. From what I've heard the jury is still out on him being able to stick at SS, and he might be shifted over to 3B.

With the injury issues and really no benefit of keeping Crain for the rest of the season, if the best the Sox can do is Middlebrooks, I'm okay with that. Not nearly what we hoped for a month ago, but coming off an injury close to the deadline and having no reason to keep him for 2 months unless the Sox wanted the extra time to negotiate a contract with him in the offseason, getting something for him is better than nothing. Middlebrooks still has the potential to at least be a good defensive platoon player at 3B who can knock out a couple homers. Maybe not an impact bat, but could be useful, even if it is just a platoon player with Gillaspie. However, I still hold out hope Crain nets a better return than that.

I'm actually glad Texas is out as a partner. They had a lot of really interesting lower level prospects, but there is a ton of risk in those guys. I think the Sox can get better deals for Peavy from either Arizona or Boston with more MLB ready prospects. Plus, Peavy is officially the top SP on the market now if the trade is official, so it can't hurt his trade value at all.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jul 22, 2013 -> 03:40 PM) Haha, I applaud you for this response.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jul 22, 2013 -> 02:45 PM) I don't understand all the love for Eaton. What's his upside? We already have Tekotte if we need good defense with no bat. Owings, though. Yeah. That's a joke, right? We're talking about the young OF, not the retired pitcher.

QUOTE (Jake @ Jul 21, 2013 -> 01:07 PM) If I was doing Peavy and Crain, I'd want Owings, Davidson, Eaton Oh how sweet it would be to pull off a trade like that. Unfortunately, I don't see Davidson going anywhere. However, I'd still take Owings, Eaton, and maybe throw in some pitching prospects.

If they want Reed, to justify trading him within the division, I think you would need to get Castellanos back in return. Steep price to pay for a closer, but the White Sox have no reason to trade him, especially within the division, so the price should be very steep.

I wonder how much free stuff she received because of that.

QUOTE (maxjusttyped @ Jul 20, 2013 -> 08:08 PM) De Aza has been a better "lead-off hitter" each of the past 2 years than Podsednik was in '05. I know we all love to glorify players from the '05 team, and Podsednik certainly had his role, but his offense isn't the reason that team won the World Series. Pods in '05: .290/.351/.349 88 wRC+ De Aza this year: .270/.328/.437 105 wRC+ I'm not going to agree or disagree with you who the better leadoff hitter is/was (I actually lied earlier, Scotty Pods from 09 was probably the best leadoff hitter this team has had since Ray Durham), but purely from a White Sox standpoint, if history is any indication, De Aza is not an ideal leadoff hitter the organization looks for. For several years now, the White Sox have wanted Scotty Pods/Juan Pierre type players who make good contact, hit around .300, and have great speed. De Aza, while the best the Sox could do over the past two years, was never the ideal leadoff hitter Kenny wanted, at least I think so.

QUOTE (DirtySox @ Jul 20, 2013 -> 08:26 PM) Cole, Giolito, and Karns are fine prospects, but other than Brian Goodwin the positional prospects in Washington are lacking at the moment. Still interesting though. Brian Goodwin is someone the Sox tried to get via the draft out of high school a couple years ago, so I would assume he would be a top target in any trade involving the Nats

The more I think about it, the more it seems like an Alexei and De Aza deal to Pittsburgh makes a whole lot more sense. The only hitch in such a trade is that it might force Marte to move to RF (where I would assume he would have been put to begin with since he has a strong arm, but perhaps the Pirates saw more value in having his plus speed and range play in LF), but it might be worth it since De Aza adds a productive LF bat to the lineup, and Ramirez seems like a perfect fit for the Pirates needs at SS. Whatever package it ends up being, I still view the Pirates as one of the top trading partners this deadline. Here's to hoping them losing a few games on the Cards in the next ten days, perhaps forcing them to get nervous and make a deal.

I'd be shocked if Adam Eaton isn't the main target from any trade with Arizona. He fits all of the needs this team has been looking for a leadoff hitter since Scotty Pods in 05, except better defense and more line drive power than just slap hitter.

QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Jul 19, 2013 -> 03:59 PM) Which I think everyone understands. But Greg

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jul 19, 2013 -> 03:10 PM) I don't believe this to be true at all. If Adam Dunn started swinging for more contact, he'd still end up striking out at about a 28-30% clip and he would only hit 20 to 30 homers. If it were as simple as him trying to hit for average to cut back on his strikeouts, he would have done it a long time ago because it would make him a better player. He doesn't have good enough bat control nor speed to be able to fight pitches off like many guys do. He does have enough bat speed and strength to hit the ball 500 feet. Its all debatable. Maybe all Dunn is good at is hitting bombs. But maybe, just maybe, if he brainwashed himself into not wanting to swing for the fences, maybe used a lighter bat, and went with a more all around approach where he is willing to make adjustments during at bats and sacrifice power here and there, I think he would benefit greatly. But maybe like you said it is something he just can't do. Also, I shouldn't say contact approach as that implies you just trying to make contact. A better way of phrasing it would be a hit the ball hard where it is pitched, and protect with two strikes (not try and still drop bombs) approach.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 19, 2013 -> 03:04 PM) I will believe the Pirates acquire that kind of money with 2 guys who really give you iffy production when it happens. If it were a team like the Dodgers(I know they have no spot for Rios) who are known for not being afraid to take on some cash, IMO it would be more plausible. The amount of money the White Sox would have to pay to acquire a decent prospect seems to make little sense. Understandable, and I agree with you, any deal with the Pirates would require a decent chunk added in by the White Sox, but I think spending that money to get better prospects in return makes more sense than the alternate options out there. Also, its not like Rios and Ramirez have contracts that can cripple the Pirates for years to come.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 19, 2013 -> 01:49 PM) At the same time, how do you quantify the effect on the balls one does put in play if hitting style is adjusted to try and cut back on strikeouts? Say Dunn did make a conscious effort to make more contact. How many home runs would it come at the expense of? I understand there is a difference between trying to measure hitters that strikeout versus hitters that don't (as much), but in the end, a guy is what he is for the most part. I get what you are trying to say, but I don't think Dunn is a good example. Adam Dunn is someone who is big enough and strong enough to still hit home runs when he isn't trying to hit homeruns. That is why the HR, BB, or K approach doesn't make sense to me. I truly believe if Dunn stopped trying to hit home runs, you would see his K's go down, his average go up, and home runs remain around 40, maybe a slight decrease. Maybe also the avg. distance on his homers would go down, but who cares about that as long as they are going over the fence.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 19, 2013 -> 02:33 PM) We have heard from 2 sources there was very little interest in Ramirez and the White Sox were extremely dissappointed in the offers for Rios. The blinders are being worn by the people who actually think the Pittsburgh Pirates would actually acquire both and give up any of their top prospects. I would say this, Alex Rios' production the next 10 days is extremely important. Probably more so than Peavy pitching gems. I'm not saying it will happen, but if you look at the Pirates needs and who they are up against in the NL Central, I am confident that they would have a lot of interest in possibly acquiring both Rios and Ramirez. It really doesn't matter what other teams want or value the players as, it is what the Pirates need. And Ramirez and Rios would be light years better than what they have gotten out of RF and SS thus far, most likely. Things could get especially interesting if the Pirates don't start off hot after the break and fall to 4 or 5 behind the Cards a couple days away from the deadline. Huntington might be even more willing to make a deal to since the Pirates did fall off in the second half two years in a row as well.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 19, 2013 -> 11:45 AM) The main thing is a strikeout is an out 99.9% of the time. If you hit the ball, what is the average BABIP? Chances are if someone cuts down their K rate significantly, their batting average and all that goes with that will go up, unless they are deemed unlucky. Which is something that really surprised be about the total saber guys who said a strikeout is an out like any other out. They are aware that not striking out is either getting HBP, walked or putting the ball in play, which ultimately results in less outs, and they are aware that outs do occassional advance runners. I think the extra hits gained, plus the occassional advancement of runners, the occassional errors, far outweigh the DP. You can't just compare a strikeout to a regular out, because you don't make outs everytime you don't strikeout. Thank you, I was hoping someone else would point this out and you did a great job of doing so. A strikeout usually is never a productive out as you explained nicely, as there is no chance for a fielder to misplay a strikeout (well I guess you can but it is a far less likely scenario), or for the ball to hit a lip and take a bad bounce, or to get caught in the lights/sun and fall in front of the outfielder. And like you said, the positives outweigh the negatives of putting the ball in play. I know I just repeated everything you said, and could have just as easily said I agreed with you, but this is one of those subjects that grinds my gears. I am down for some of the advanced metrics, but I just hate it when people who use the saber stats completely ridicule traditional stats because they are exactly that, a traditional stat. Its a like a political debate with conservatives and liberals and completely disagreeing on everything. Life would be so much easier if people saw the value in both sides, and not just held allegiance to their side.

I think people are overvaluing Polanco and making him seem like an untouchable elite prospect. If the Pirates were to try and acquire Rios, Ramirez, AND cash back, I think Polanco would be a very reasonable return package. He is a very good prospect, but lets not kid ourselves, he's no top 5 or 10 guy right now. Maybe, maybe top 25 in baseball. So, lets say its true and the Pirates want Rios and Ramirez, they better be willing to either take on all the salary and give back less in prospects, or if they want cash to, you have to give back something worth value to the Sox, as simple as that. Also, the Pirates would be crazy not to try and get Ramirez and Rios in the same deal. Tabata and Snider leaves a whole lot to be desired in RF (and so would Schierholtz and Tabata), and Barnes/Mercer are not cutting it at SS. They have a legit shot at winning the Central this year, and the extra wins that Rios and Ramirez would likely provide for them might put them over the top of the Cardinals. That alone makes me think it is likelier the Pirates might be willing to throw in a little more talent.