The Ultimate Champion

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 10, 2013 -> 02:58 PM) He just learned additional players may or may not be exchanged? What a scoop. You really have to be an insider to come up with that. It's a joke, they have an MLBTR Originals post they make all the time which is loaded with non-scoops like agent changes and close UT player signings and so forth. They're fed nothing. Their last big scoop was something ambiguous like "Tim Dierkes has learned at X team is going to make a trade" or something like that. All the other writers got the info, yet MLBTR credited themselves as providing exclusive info. I read that all the time too but just because they compile all the important stuff. They've been trying to up their game but so far the results have been pretty sad. The info in this thread from posters here is far superior with regard to anything Sox.

Sources say Bruce Levine is the last person to know anything.

QUOTE (StRoostifer @ Dec 10, 2013 -> 02:50 PM) s***, nothings been said on MLBTR for over an hour about this trade. WTF? UPDATE 1:53PM CT MLBTR's Tim Dierkes has just learned that additional players may or may not be exchanged in the deal should it come to fruition. If you may remember MLBTR's Tim Dierkes was the first to report Hector Santiago potentially considering a change in representation to CAA.

So what's the consensus here, is this Eaton guy going to be a butcher in the field? Speed and arm strength apparently right? Is he inept out there? I don't want some bumblebee out there bumbling around in the field, not for Santiago anyway.

QUOTE (Andy the Clown @ Dec 10, 2013 -> 02:21 PM) So can guys like Santiago. If that were the case no one would ever give out $30M+ to the likes of Jason Vargas and Scott Feldman, nor would anyone ever trade for any pitcher less than a #3.

QUOTE (fathom @ Dec 10, 2013 -> 02:12 PM) I know I'm going to get backlash for this, but what exactly is this surplus of pitching the Sox have? Guys like Rienzo can be found in every organization. I don't like him either. If this deal is done & Beck turns out then we'll have a surplus again. But that's only if Danks makes his comeback successfully & nobody else gets hurt/traded.

QUOTE (Chilihead90 @ Dec 10, 2013 -> 02:07 PM) Lol, Jim Duquette on mlb.com right now saying he loves the deal for Arizona because Trumbo has so much power, and he doesn't like the deal for the Angels because Santiago is barely a #5 guy and Skaggs is a question mark. lol, f***ing idiot. And of course, he didn't mention anything about Adam Eaton. Didn't all of that guys best prospects get traded to the Cubs for INTL draft slots last year or soemthuing? Even if not, f*** him. I don't know s*** about Eaton & I don't even like the deal anyway if this is what it is, but re:Dquette, please keep your s***headed comments about Santiago to yourself you boner face GM wannabe guy

QUOTE (pettie4sox @ Dec 10, 2013 -> 02:04 PM) Would some of you say Santiago is still raw? Yeah. But he's an overachiever too with a pretty high ceiling as a mid-rotation starter. I mean, he goes from non prospect to relief prospect to starter prospect to MLB closer/reliever to MLB starter to something possibly special, all on hard work, and he's a great athlete with a great attitude. I think we're selling low here but I don't mind it if we're buying low on someone equally talented. But I want more back.

QUOTE (chisoxfan310 @ Dec 10, 2013 -> 01:57 PM) If we get Eaton and one of Davidson or Conger and we lose Santiago and a prospect (not like many of them are great in our organization any way) then I'd be happy. Losing a Beck, Snodgress, Leesman, Thompson, Mitchell, Jacobs wouldn't be terrible considering these guys are reaching or are in their mid-20s and show no signs of hope. What are you talking about Beck showing no sign of hope? Please leave that name out of the rest of your group.

QUOTE (fathom @ Dec 10, 2013 -> 01:21 PM) Who knows, maybe Semien is the good prospect included? I would definitely keep Kendrick and see what you get from him for a year. In our park, he might hit 20-25 homers. That's giving up way too much IMO. I can't see how we'd view Kendrick as a future piece, would we really want to extend him starting with his age 32 season?

What about Gardner + Sanchez for Kendrick+ if this goes through? Turn Santiago + spects into Eaton + Sanchez, take the draft pick from Gardner, Kepp is your 2B stopgap for Semien

Kendrick gets $9.35M in 2014 & $9.5M in 2015 We move him then right? Still go with Semien?

QUOTE (Frank_Thomas35 @ Dec 10, 2013 -> 01:03 PM) While he has been great, I think the Sox trade record of trading young pitchers has turned out pretty well for the Franchise in the past... I also think we can come about a 3rd SP ceiling guy easily in the upcoming draft or finding another young pitcher and workin on him like we did with Qunitana. I just think overreacting trading Santiago without knowing what we are getting in return and judging a guy for 300 at bats is a little premature. Let's let it pan out and see the deal and what the sox do the rest of the week/offseason. Santiago is replaceable, there is no arguing that, and I trust Hahn to get his values worth from him. This. We trade someone like Sale & now we have all these new holes & expectations to be met. Trade Santiago OTOH & you need a #3 SP type value in return to replace him, and with the right moves you may be able to even exceed that. Worst case we make a bad move, bring in a couple busts or something, but losing Santiago doesn't really hurt our forward progress. Moves like this will get the Sox where they need to go. If this Eaton dude did work out then just imagine how much better we'd feel having another position player to pencil into our next contending team. I hope we can get 2 good future players out of Santiago and a prospect or 2 here, that would be nice.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Dec 10, 2013 -> 12:50 PM) Why do the Sox need or want Cahill? I don't know, but I'm not sure why we want Kendrick or Uribe, nor why we signed Paulino when we have Johnson. I have no idea what the Sox are doing right now. Maybe they are planning on unloading a whole bunch of players and bringing in stopgaps. Makes no sense.

I don't think DeAza qualifies as a surplus of anything. I think he'll be gone as soon as someone offers the Sox a deal that benefits the Sox, and IMO this has likely been our stance on DeAza since last winter. I think Hahn's just been getting low-balled on DeAza for a while.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 10, 2013 -> 12:40 PM) Can't be from the Sox if they are good... amiright? Steve Gilbert ‏@SteveGilbertMLB 5m According to an MLB source, the #Dbacks would also receive a pair of good prospects in Trumbo deal. What if we're giving up Snodgress + Beck or something & in the process buying one of the DBacks better pitching prospects, or maybe 1 and we're getting Cahill who was originally in the discussion?

11:38am: MLB.com's Steve Gilbert tweets that Arizona would receive a pair of good prospects in addition to Trumbo. From us???

QUOTE (Sockin @ Dec 10, 2013 -> 12:38 PM) FYI, Kenny said this: “We think that we are on the cusp of doing some other things that I think our fans are going to like,” White Sox executive vice president Ken Williams told MLB.com’s Scott Merkin." http://mlb.mlblogs.com/2013/12/10/white-so...rking-on-trade/ If the DBacks are also getting 2 specs then I imagine 1 is from us, and we're getting something else back.

QUOTE (dayan024 @ Dec 10, 2013 -> 11:58 AM) Scott Merkin ‏@scottmerkin 26s As I said last night, the White Sox are not in on Juan Uribe. Entertaining guy, great teammate. Doesn't fit their plan right now f*** yeah

QUOTE (dayan024 @ Dec 10, 2013 -> 11:56 AM) Are the Sox secretly in on the Matt Kemp trade talks.. Would Kemp excite the fan base?? I was thinking that maybe we're still in on Headley, and we're using Santiago to get us a piece for the Padres which would make it possible to pull that off without including Q. Kemp is VERY KW-like though, but so is Crawford unfortunately. Crawford would have to come with a massive amount of cash and little talent while Kemp might cost a bit & still we wouldn't get a load of cash back.

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Dec 10, 2013 -> 10:32 AM) How about Sale for everyone good from Az. No need for Quintana and Reed for those 2 big contracts. Because EVERYONE GOOD is probably like 5-6 guys and if you don't pick up a Major League ace in there then you lose & lose hard, and when you make the playoffs and you don't have that #1 guy then what? You get Hamels and you still have a LH ace at the top of your rotation. Papelbon is a salary dump who is useful, Reed doesn't matter for the future since he's just a good but not great closer & few teams even want to pay closers into their 6th arb year anymore. Santiago & Danks are your 2nd & 3rd lefties, and you have a s***load of pitching to work into 2 spots, meaning you still end up with the pitching to contend. Salary is of no concern, lots of money coming off the books with Dunn next year, and even more with a Danks deal down the road. Would Phillies do it? Maybe not. It's funny how flawed the general trade Sale thinking is around here. The idea is that you trade 1 elite player who happens to fill one of the hardest positions in baseball to fill (true ace LHSP) who also happens to be on one of the best contracts in baseball and in return you expect to get a whole s***load of prospects who will inevitably become awesome and then you're all happy and everything is great. Then we contend and win titles & we do everything in one fell swoop. But in reality those all become lesser players if they make it at all, and we still don't have our stopper, and when he's a FA we still can't afford to sign him. Yet I mention bringing in another ace to replace Sale in the same deal, which of course makes us a s*** ton better than we would be otherwise and which actually would help us contend, and yet no one would do it because Hamels is expensive & obviously all those AZ guys are going to be at least that good themselves. The dream of selling your house for 250,000 1-dollar scratch-off tickets and then becoming a millionaire isn't a very likely scenario, but the baseball version of it gets talked about on message boards/discussion forums every single year, every single offseason, every single trade deadline. It's just dumb though, just like all those make money in real estate signs you see along the road, just like the Amway people & their little schemes, just like every fad diet/weight loss program, just the people who tell you all you have to do is exercise 4 mins a day to get into good shape, etc. it's all about this one single completely dumb idea that all you have to do is put forth one small effort here or there (like execute 1 trade) and suddenly everything's great. It's easy to believe in because it requires no skill or hard work, it's just schemes developed to profit off a whole bunch of lazy, unskilled suckers. But Rick Hahn isn't a sucker, nor is he lazy, and he learned under Kenny Williams so obviously he's seen this s*** before & he's not just going to dump Sale off for a bunch of lottery tickets and so on because he knows it doesn't work that way.

Here's a Sale trade I might think about: Sox trade: Sale Quintana Reed Phils trade: Hamels Papelboner DBacks trade: EVERYONE GOOD Sox get: Hamels Papelbon's s***ty contract EVERYONE GOOD from AZ Phils get: Quintana Reed Tons of $$$$$ savings AZ gets: Sale Sox swap Sale for Hamels, Reed for 'Boner, and use Q + $$$ savings to buy a new farm

QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Dec 10, 2013 -> 09:53 AM) I was thinking they might be able to add another bullpen arm in the draft and start Webb and Petricka back in AAA. Someone like Freddy Lewis (LHRP) or Brody Colvin (former Phillies #1 prospect) if they had enough slots to make two picks. Yes the history of rule V picks isn't great, but you want to give your self the best opportunity to hit the jackpot on your lottery ticket. Relievers are the best bet in general because you can hide them, use them as specialists, etc. but OTOH big-armed relievers who currently suck are pretty easy to acquire throughout the season. Every year we dump off a Jhan Marinez or a Gregory Infante or a Clevelan Santeliz and so on, these guys are around the league all the time. It's certainly much less llikely we'd get a catcher to stick over a reliever but I'd try for the catcher just because it would mean so much more if we actually did get some kind of good result.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 10, 2013 -> 09:49 AM) Check out the recent history of the rule 5 draft. The Sox will be lucky if they actually draft a guy who sticks. The fact is neither is probably ready to take a roster spot. Maybe Nieto is a guy who the Sox feel could be decent in a couple of years, and more likely a guy his former team would either say keep him if you like or work out a trade. That's probably the most likely scenario of all where we end up keeping the player. There could even be some understanding between the 2 clubs prior to ST that if the Sox like the guy they would be willing to trade the rights of X Y or Z for the rights of their Rule-5 pick. ST is the easiest time to make deals because FO personnel and scouts are all in the same places and it's easy to find something you might like.

QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Dec 10, 2013 -> 09:44 AM) Because Nieto is 23 in A ball and Perez is 22 and has made it to AAA. Nieto would be completely overmatched against big league pitching, at least Perez might be able to adjust given his experience at different levels. How many picks do the Sox get to make? Do they still have two slots open since Bellisario and Paulino signed after 12/2? I'm sure they could get both if they really wanted to. Who's in front, Astros and...? Sox could make a small deal. The thinking with ANY Rule-5 IMO has to be Flowers (out of options) vs. Rule-5 pick, and if both look good in ST then you start the season with both, otherwise it's just 1 roster spot. Keeping 2 Rule-5 picks on the roster would be very difficult obviously, but you could trade for both just to have that competition in Spring while knowing you'd return one. Whoever would make it just has to be on the 25-man or DL through the season to be kept, and then he could go back to the minors if he had to.