The Ultimate Champion

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Dec 12, 2013 -> 04:29 PM) Money + players. Sox don't have the prospects to trade. Wite just laid it out for you dude. Sox acquired Peavy for a glorified relief prospect, a #5 SP prospect, an A-ball pitcher, and a warm body MR prospect. The worst system in baseball always has that much "talent" plus considerably more. Any team in baseball could have made that deal. We got Peavy due to his full NTC and the fact that he was hurt, and the Padres were desperate to dump his deal while they were in the process of selling the team.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Dec 12, 2013 -> 04:28 PM) You think this team will contend next year? I don't. No, not right now. But if for some reason they do - and they at least have the SP - it's nice to know that the Sox would at least consider upgrading the club mid-season vs. waiting until December. We were terrible last year. You should be happy. We're probably not going to be good again for another year anyway so why not shift your focus to all the s***ty players we *do* have and save the money argument for when we're better and need to add to our core? Call JR a cheap ass when it actually makes some sense for him to spend extra $$$.

^Also maybe the Sox don't like dealing with Rizzo in general. Maybe they'd rather just take a player than dick around in negotiations.

Marty pushing to trade Sale & still picking on the Sox for not spending money. He knows what he's doing. He knows what happens if Sale is gone for a bunch of busts & Choo is signed to a 15-year $340B contract. Usually when you're walking on clouds it's because you're happy; with Marty it's because the sky can't fall any farther.

Hector was motivated as f*** too. Hector seriously overachieved & I'm sure has no plans of stopping. He's also a smart, aggressive player and an athlete in the field despite being a pitcher. Humble + good attitude + confidence? Excellent makeup. OTOH I hope Eaton can catch the ball in the OF as well as Hector can in the bullpen. I also hope Eaton knows where to draw the lines between being a quality player and being a grinder. Grinders play hurt & the kill team, they slide head-first into 1B, etc. I don't want anymore grinders. Catch the ball, make your throws, position yourself where you're told, hit the baseball, get on base, know when to run & don't get picked off.

QUOTE (chisoxfan310 @ Dec 12, 2013 -> 03:42 PM) I give him one more shot. Especially if any of the three of Sanchez, Semien, Johnson progress nicely. If he doesn't bring back anything worthwhile then might as well. If he does then Hahn has a decision to make.

I think we should block Semien with someone & make him earn a starting job. No bench, no multiple roles, no "here's the job, go ahead and lose it." I also have no issue dealing Beckham for value & starting Keppinger at 2B since we're probably going to suck anyway. Make Semien earn the promotion, and if you have Sanchez at Charlotte too then maybe you get a nice little post-ST position battle going on to see who is going to come in & save the day at 2B.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Dec 12, 2013 -> 03:02 PM) I've said before, though it sounds odd, I think Phegley has better potential as a hitter than Flowers does. Keep in mind that you can't look at Phegley's numbers in the minors at face value. Look at his jumps, how little development time he actually had at any given level. He didn't have a full, healthy season until 2012, at which point he was in AAA with very little development time at other levels in terms of games played. Then in 2013 (and even late 2012 really), once he had a year to adjust to level, he exploded. The leaps & lost time are valid arguments. I'm just not sure Phegley is anyone we want to bank on by any means. Hahn probably likes him more than anyone here & Hahn's still seemingly doing everything in his power to put other guys next to him as well as in front of him. With Phegley having options though, if you get a real starting catcher and use Nieto/Flowers/Other as a backup, you can give Phegley PA in AAA, monitor his approach, and if someone else thinks he's ready to be a starting big league catcher then you should be able to get something out of him, maybe not a ton, but maybe an MLB reliever or something.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 12, 2013 -> 03:08 PM) Flowers value offensively appears likely to only be his power. The walks he put up in the minors have vanished. He could lose 25 pounds and not come close to hitting his weight. But, he has shown he is a decent back up which has value. No one really knows how well Phegley can hit, not even considering how he would be able to hit if he were a guy not playing regularly. Sporatic ABs don't seem to matter to Flowers. If I were the GM, if I am acquiring a legit starting catcher, Flowers is the guy I keep. If it is another part time guy, Phegley is the guy I would keep around if someone had to go. God damn you've been on a roll lately.

Well Castro's MiLB line: .293/.382/.422 Phegley's MiLB line: .263/.313/.417 Castro was 23 when he debuted, Phegley 25 Debuts: Castro 41 K to 22 BB, Phegley 41 K to 5 BB in almost the same # of PA I'm sure there are plenty of other reasons, namely that Castro was a top prospect & Phegley is Phugly If you mean that Phugly isn't a finished product then I can see that being the case, I just see no reason to suspect he's anything worth building around, and I think if there's any position we should try to get a player to build around it's catcher.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Dec 12, 2013 -> 12:10 PM) I think you are buying incredibly high on Castro right now. His K% increased like crazy, yet somehow he hit 20 points better. I think he's more of a .250/.325/.425 kind of guy, which is still very valuable out of the catcher's position, but I'd rather not giving up Quintana for that. I've just soured on the idea of acquiring a catcher all. If you can get one cheap, then sure, go for it. Otherwise, I think you just stick with what you have, bring in a couple other smaller pieces for competition purposes. He also raised his SLG% from .287 to .401 to .485 in his 3 seasons in the bigs, with last year being his first full season. The K's going up along with it IMO is probably just normal development, him becoming more aggressive in the right counts/situations. I'd say that if the power stays pretty close then the Ks probably go down a bit if that's the case & he's just learning how & when to hit. His splits are quality too, last year .286/.358/.506 vs. RHP & .242/.324/.414 vs. LHP. How wonderful it would be to have a starting catcher that you don't have to automatically sit against same-handed pitching, because your backup probably sucks balls anyway if you're most teams in most seasons. Yeah, I actually would deal Q for him if I absolutely had to. I'd prefer to build around Johnson or Beck but if it can't be done then I go Q.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Dec 12, 2013 -> 10:43 AM) The Sox would have to give up Quintana to get Castro. That's not going to happen. I think they are going to try and find cheap, long term options at catcher this year. If they appear close to competing next year, I think they'll try and find a big upgrade at that point. I've been one of Q's biggest supporters here. I argued on his behalf over Santiago when it seemed like most of the board liked Santiago better. Q's success isn't surprising at all to me. However, while I'd hate to trade him, Castro.... man, that's tough. If we couldn't put together 4-5 specs for Houston and there's no way they would do any Castro deal with us without getting Q, then I might just have to do it. Castro is someone Hahn could possibly extend & secure the catching spot for the next 6 years or so. That's just way too much value especially with the scarcity of catchers combined with our total inability to develop position players into anything but pitchers. I'd probably have to make that deal and just hope we could find a replacement somewhere else. Just remembering back to when Castro was drafted, we supposedly were interested too, we took Beckham that draft, and some posters here & fans elsewhere crapped on Castro's ceiling and called him a stretch for where he was drafted, not respecting his game. Of course he was frequently compared to AJ Pierzynski back then, and why would anyone give up that kind of pick just to take an AJ? Ha, they really look dumb now don't they? Let's get that guy, it's destiny. Hopefully without Q but if it has to happen........ I'm probably for it.

QUOTE (southside hitman @ Dec 12, 2013 -> 11:48 AM) Still not done with Thompson. He's inconsistent, but can't give up on a guy who could easily put be a 20/20 player with plus defense in CF. Can't give up on him only because he doesn't get you anything. If another team wants to give me a much lower ceiling but higher floor usable MLB-ready position player for any of our K machine OFers apart from Hawkins, I make that deal yesterday.

QUOTE (Jillian Michaels' Abs @ Dec 12, 2013 -> 11:47 AM) Being that Smoak is form my hometown, I've read up on him quite a bit. Word is Seattle isn't read to give up on him just yet. What did they get Morrison for then? I think they're just dumb. Morrison is the unique combination of suckage + team distraction, and it looks like they've just used him to block Smoak right after Smoak took a step forward (albeit a small step given his potential).

Funny how they traded Asdrubal Cabrera & Shin Soo Choo for bench players, dumped Morse but then traded back for him, traded Jones in the Bedard deal. Traded Fister too for Casper Wells. They've had like 5 or 6 good guys & they traded/dumped them all.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Dec 12, 2013 -> 11:40 AM) The Mariners are the prime example of why trading Chris Sale is so crazy. Over the past decade, they've had Olivo, Reed, Morse, Ackley, Smoak, Montero, and a ton of others come up and bust. Yes. And Pineda too. Even if they don't make that deal they still lose.

Just pay Dunn's salary and send him to the Mariners in the deal for Smoak. The Sox are stuck paying him $15M anyway no matter what & I think the odds are pretty small even a fairly productive Dunn brings back anything greater at the deadline than what we got out of Thornton. Dunn + Lindstrom + cash for Smoak + prospect.

QUOTE (TheFutureIsNear @ Dec 12, 2013 -> 09:33 AM) Anybody have interest in Matt Lollis? Giant righty (6'9 250) who sits around 96-97 as a starter with a slider that can be very good but its inconsistent. I'm thinking he could be a force if asked to just reach back and throw 99-100 for 1 inning. I'm thinking Bobby Jenks Sounds like AAAAAARDSMA Bobby Jenks was one of the best closers we've had here in terms of stuff. Big fastball, big curveball, nice slider & changeup when everything was working. On the whole he was vastly more talented than this guy sounds. We got Bobby on waivers though, largely due to off-field stuff like drinking problems and redneck emo/burn & cut yourself stuff.

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Dec 12, 2013 -> 09:55 AM) <!--quoteo(post=2904343:date=Dec 12, 2013 -> 08:27 AM:name=southsider2k5)-->QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 12, 2013 -> 08:27 AM) <!--quotec-->Scott Merkin ‏@scottmerkin 1m White Sox lose Brady Shoemaker to Miami ^Lillian

QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Dec 12, 2013 -> 09:46 AM) Moran went fifth. Would have preferred him to add to our collection of dismal LH arms instead of adding to our collection of dismal catchers. Mateo from the Cubs was the 8th player selected. Little surprising there. He seemed to be the top of everyone's list. Two position players drafted compared to seven pitchers. I imagine the position players are both longshots. LOVE THE SIG We'll probably pick one up in a trade and bring in a few more on ST invites. Plus maybe we get a Snodgress or someone to show up the rest in ST ala Booner in 06. Probably not happening.

Giants get Morse, they gone. Reds & who else is left? Do the A's need an OF? DeAza seems like a Beane type of target.

I'm not sure you'd really want to hide a position player anyway, especially a catcher. It's hard for me to imagine a position player not seeing live pitching for most of the year & somehow developing further. With a pitcher it makes some sense, you have the side sessions, you work with the big league coaches & their training staffs, you get advice from MLB pitchers, etc. Hitters.... eh. I think a backup catcher has to play regularly if he's a Rule-5 guy, otherwise there's no point in keeping him because you're not helping him & you're not helping your organization.

Yankees turned down a Phillips for Gardner deal. Maybe the Sox could get in there with Beckham & send him to the Yanks with a prospect, Gardner goes to the Reds, we get specs from Cincy.

I think he means that it is difficult to carry an extra anything since it forces your bench to be somewhat useful. And on any bad team (if that's what we are in 2014) you can't really hide someone in the pen, because the pen is probably full of gas cans and you need to cover extra innings.

QUOTE (chisoxfan310 @ Dec 11, 2013 -> 10:23 PM) Whether they have an extra DH or not they would still only take 2 catchers. It could be Flowers and Phegley or one of those two with a Rule 5 guy. IMO they will get at least 1 catcher, maybe 2. If they get 1 starter, Flowers has a shot as a backup with Phegley in the minors. 1 non-starter and it's new guy vs. Flowers with the loser not getting a spot on the 40-man. If the Sox get 2 catchers, whether 1 is a starter or they're both prospects/backup types, Flowers is off the roster and Phegley is still probably in the minors. I'm not sure the Sox like any of their options, they would just probably want to keep Phegley as insurance since he has options.