The Ultimate Champion

This team is going to struggle in the early part of the season. They will probably not bring all these young guys with them to Chicago out of ST, some will go to Charlotte. They will also fade down the stretch and young pitchers will hit walls. Young position players will have to learn to adjust to off-field MLB life, media and public pressure, etc. It's not going to happen. The team, I agree, will probably be much more fun to watch, but fans are going to need to be patient with some of these guys & patience here is....? There's no patience here. If things go right IMO we're looking at a fun-to-root-far underdog WildCard contender in 2015 and hopefully a stacked roster looking for a deep postseason run in 2016. And given where we were that would be an absolutely terrific job by the entire Sox organization if they can pull that off. So far they're looking pretty good.

Valle followed up a lackluster .253/.271/.428 performance in 2012 with a .203/.245/.359 performance in 379 Double-A plate appearances last season ^Boy oh boy that sounds exactly what we need more of. Coop isn't a hitting coach ya know.

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Dec 18, 2013 -> 10:35 AM) Hopefully a Tanaka sized hole. Hopefully a Garza-sized hole IMO. MLBTR put something out there before about an exec who wouldn't be in the bidding saying Tanaka will get over $100M. $20M posting fee + $100M or more in salary, for a guy who has never pitched in MLB and supposedly is a significant step down from Darvish? No thanks. Hot name now, but that could be one bad deal in the future. Give me Garza please on a much better deal. Sale-Garza-Quintana-Johnson-Danks going into the season, and when Beck is ready you trade Danks or Garza for a haul. Please do that Sox, and also continue to acquire prospects.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 17, 2013 -> 03:37 PM) Then we shouldn't have signed another DH. We need 2 roster spots right now out of those 3 guys and frankly it would be really nice to keep the guy who is pre-arb. Paulie as a mentor could actually work pretty well. He's not the problem.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Dec 17, 2013 -> 04:59 PM) Dunn will probably have more trade value at the deadline than he does now And what does he bring you then? Probably not s***, just like now. Dump his ass, because the PA he's going to eat in 2014 aren't worth sacrificing the development of anyone who may be in our future plans. For f***s sake, 2+ years of Alex Rios gets you Leury Garcia on waivers & you still have to pay $1M. Dunn is bringing back nobody even if you eat his deal. So eat it now, see if you can get anything useful for the 2014 club in the process, i.e. another lefty arm to challenge Leesman & Veal is probably more useful to us than Dunn, and don't give him any PAs. There is literally like no upside here. We suck, so does he. Cut the f***in cord.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Dec 17, 2013 -> 04:30 PM) The White Sox gave up Zach Stewart and Brent Lillibridge for Kevin Youkilis. That is different on about 3 or 4 different levels. No it's not. Zach Stewart was a legitimate prospect who fell off & never made it. Rienzo is far lesser than he was. Lilli was at least a somewhat decent MLB UT guy whereas Sanchez - although he would have greater value than Lilli at the time - is coming off a down season in AAA. It's pretty close. We're not getting anything out of Rienzo dude, and Sanchez is going to have to show someone something to regain value.

QUOTE (raBBit @ Dec 17, 2013 -> 04:21 PM) Not sure of your angle here but PED suspensions didn't stop our front office from acquiring Flowers or Nieto. Nieto was Rule-5 and Tyler was an AFL performer. You can smoke crack, sell crack, drive buses full of children off cliffs, bomb orphanges, etc. doesn't matter what you do as long as you mash in the AFL, and if do KW will acquire you.

QUOTE (raBBit @ Dec 17, 2013 -> 04:21 PM) Are you serious? I mean Jones you can make a case for but Sanchez? Rienzo? I'd give up both of them for Alonso. If Hahn offered Rienzo AND Sanchez for Alonso he would probably get laughed at. Yeah I'd remove the "probably." Sanchez could be a nice under-the-radar prospect, especially with a rebound in 2014 in Charlotte, but Rienzo? Rienzo is a MR, 5th starter, barely in the league kind of arm. If we want anyone good without giving up Q and the team we're dealing with wants pitching, there's no way we can pull anything off without at least including Beck and/or Johnson. Rienzo + Sanchez is similar in talent/upside to the package the Sox acquired Youkilis for which everyone thought was a murderous steal. IMO it's better than what we gave up to get 1/2 season of Liriano but not by much. And sadly it's also about what we got out of Carlos Quentin

QUOTE (Jerksticks @ Dec 16, 2013 -> 07:59 PM) Yea you figure a new name will emerge from AA this year as well. The White Sox organization is quite impressive in some areas. *one area But hey, if we're only going to be good at one thing I'd much rather it be pitching anyway.

QUOTE (beautox @ Dec 16, 2013 -> 10:38 PM) Don't move Ramirez for the sake of moving him, Semien projects more as a 2B. This year is going to be a lot of fun to watch. Lots of question marks but Hahn has put us in a much better position for a quick turn around. If Viciedo breaks out he can be moved to DH in '15 and maybe Thompson supplants eaton and pushes him to LF or the next crown jewel of Cuba comes to the south side in Alfredo Despaigne, he's the same age as Abreu and equally as talented and a very solid defender in the outfield. Ramirez, Viciedo and Dunn have more value to this team than any other I don't see Jerry paying Dunn to play some where else, Viciedo is still so incredibly young and will help Abreu's transition here and there is no one thats ready to push Ramirez off SS. Hahn should focus on moving De Aza and Beckham, and ideally flowers as well. All though i feel if they're looking to '15 as the year there is no need to let Semien waste away in the minors let him take his lumps at the major league level and catch up to the speed of the game. Dunn has no value to us. Also, being that it's the final year of his deal, I'm not sure Reinsdorf would get in the way of anything Dunn-related due to his salary. Hahn has his numbers & I don't see why Jerry would step in to say anything other than "Please Ricky boy get this sorry sack of s*** out of here already." I'd say the Mariners who just traded for Logan Morrison would like Dunn a lot more than we do. Send Adam there, pay his salary, take back one of many busts or some halfway interesting prospect, and call it a day.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Dec 16, 2013 -> 10:32 PM) No doubt both of you guys are right, but the key point is we can now enter the 2014 season with a lineup full of talented 22 to 27 year olds, six months ago this wasn't the case. Even if some of the young guys flop, we'll still be in much better shape for 2015 & forward. Hahn's moving 100% in the appropriate direction. This is exactly what he needs to be doing. I'm just saying, and I've said this about Kenny all along as I've defended him as a very good GM, that you can't judge everything in hindsight. Hahn's making moves now that are 100% sensible and apparently based on good information. He's doing exactly what a quality GM is supposed to do in this type of situation. But some of these moves aren't going to work out & when they don't it's important for people to remember that it's the nature of the game and the nature of prospects in general, and it's not because Hahn has some major flaw somewhere.

QUOTE (raBBit @ Dec 16, 2013 -> 10:20 PM) While that's definitely a possibility I bet you whoever assumes the closer role can put up Addison like numbers so it's worth the chance. I agree 100% Which is why I'm so anti-trade Sale & so forth. You take your shots with pieces like Reed, Santiago, etc. I really like Santiago, I think he can become a #3 if given the opportunity, but we can develop those. We can also develop closers. If Davidson & Eaton bust on us what we have really lost is the time we've had to run them out there on the field to negative results, and we'll have to live with the attendance/marketing/concessions/etc. pitfalls that come with that. But we don't really stop the forward progress of the organization at all.

QUOTE (professa @ Dec 15, 2013 -> 07:24 PM) De Aza for Sean Marshall could work, especially cuz I doubt Ryan Ludwick will be anything like he was in 2012 The better idea would be to try to trade for another team's equivalent of Snodgress + another smaller piece, get your lefty there, and hope on him as a starter first with the relief option serving as a fallback. I'd rather sign Matt Thornton again or someone else of that ilk to a 2 year deal if that's what we had to do (Booner get 3/$15, yuck) and use payroll space, hoping that we could get 1 year out of the guy in order to buy the time necessary to develop another lefty in the pen, and then look to trade the guy the next offseason. DeAza should bring in a piece with ceiling, although it'll probably be a reliever if it's close or an A-baller if it's a SP or position player.

QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Dec 16, 2013 -> 09:56 PM) Those what if lineups never even come close to working out. I'm as happy and excited as anyone but let's not get ahead of ourselves. #captainbuzzkill This. And just remember all the love Hahn's getting now. If Davidson breaks with the team, hits .230 or below and is back in Charlotte by summer, that's all going to be hate. The real goal for the Sox this 2014 season - and so far they are putting themselves in great position to do it - is to enter the 2014-15 offseason without 400 billion question marks everywhere and maybe identify only 2-3 areas where they need to upgrade. If they can do that then we could potentially be looking at a WildCard playoff contender in 2015 & a potential deep postseason contender in 2016 and beyond, with our core still under control and just entering or in the early stages of arbitration.

I wonder what the difference between Tanaka & Garza is both in cost & MLB ability. Garza doesn't cost a pick either, and he's MLB proven. Teams don't want to go 5 years (maybe not even 4 with Garza) but with Tanaka I'm sure it would be 6. Maybe gimme Garza, ninja style. Danks recovers, you trade him, trade Garza in 2 years, EJ's our 5 this year, Beck/whoever replaces Danks later, someone else replaces Garza down the line.

If Hahn dumps Adam Dunn now I won't do a handstand, I'll do a Hahnstand hahaha yeah I like this deal, always like trading closers. Jones has better stuff anyway, let him rack up some saves & then send him out at the deadline Next bring in Webb, whoever Trade, trade, trade the closers.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 16, 2013 -> 04:16 PM) Borth Eaton and Avi have 2 seasons before they are arb eligible, 2016 is their first Arb eligible season. Who the f*** is that guy?

QUOTE (flavum @ Dec 16, 2013 -> 04:13 PM) That thought crossed my mind the last couple hours. This is Hahn's team. Kenny presided over the best farm system in baseball before he became a GM. Kenny has been scouting these guys, and that's probably not a bad thing. Also, when the Sox get good again, Hahn will trade prospects for proven vets to win, just like Kenny. This is Jerry Reinsdorf's team.

QUOTE (bmags @ Dec 15, 2013 -> 07:03 PM) Thread does not deliver. Patience my dear.

If you build it, he will come.

QUOTE (oldsox @ Dec 13, 2013 -> 12:22 PM) "I Can See It Now" category: If the Sox keep him and he does really well, there are going to be a lot of "Yo, Adrian" signs and comments next year. Jose Abreu = Joseeeeee Jose Jose Jose JOOSEEE Joooooooseeeeee JOOOOOOOseeeee JOsSEEEE JoseeEE Joseee JOOOOOOOseeeee Joseeee Joooooseeee Brooks Boyer's brain = best idea ever

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Dec 13, 2013 -> 03:22 PM) Perhaps, but do you want to sign him to a long-term deal? That's the reality of the situation, either lock him up in the near future or deal him while he still has some value. Quite frankly, even if he bounces back some extent next year, I really don't think he'll age well. Not a player I want to commit at this point in time. That's why you try to Sergio Santos him. Extend him to a team friendly deal, up his value, trade him to a small market club.

If robots were commissioned to fill out the HoF ballots rather than human beings & we're supposed to consider nothing but statistics on paper, Frank would be voted 1st ballot. With human beings filling out ballots rather than robots, considering context with everything, Frank still *should* be first ballot. The only argument they would have is the DH argument, which is obviously a valid argument for a BORDERLINE HOF candidate, but not a machine like Frank. There is *no* valid argument against him, and that's why he should be in. However, I do think that some voters may elect Frank 85-90% because of his career and potentially 10-15% as a big "f*** you" to the steroid era. And I would have no problem with that, and obviously Frank doesn't seem to have an issue with that either. I can see people actually *not* wanting Frank to get in as some kind of anti-steroids poster boy since it could potentially detract from his incredible numbers. The "clean" part of his career should be a distant second to his otherworldly performance. Frank doesn't need to be a talking point for people who want to b**** about Bonds, his career should stand on its own 2 feet, and in time it certainly will EVEN IF a lot of the Frank praise that should be coming over the next few months also serves as a backhanded slap to other players who don't belong in the discussion.

^Also, let's say you're a prospect on the fringes on the Major Leagues. Which do you think hurts more, 50 games on the bench because you got busted or 50 years at the Post Office because you didn't try? Look at how much money these athletes are worth. As a fan I'm not a fan of the cheaters, but if I really thought that roids were the only way I'd make it to MLB & get a shot at that payday I'd have every goddamn steriod known to man in my mouth, on my skin, up my ass, you name it. The roiders that really get me though are the ARods and Bonds types who don't need them anyway. But they fall in a completely different category. You compare Frank's all-time numbers to theirs, but you don't compare Frank's numbers to Tyler Flowers' or Melky Cabreras or any other far lesser MLB performer.

QUOTE (Tex @ Dec 13, 2013 -> 02:06 PM) I have conflicting thoughts with this. I want Frank to get in as an example of playing the power game cleanly in baseball. I don't want him to get in based on not using PEDs. He deserves to get in based on his career performance. I don't want to hear reports that he got in because he "played it clean". I want kids to know you can be successful and not cheat. I'm not seeing any conflict there. You want him in because his numbers are both legitimate and rank him as one of the greatest hitters of all time, certainly the greatest hitter in this franchise's history. I don't think you can ever send any message to kids that would come across so plain and simple. For example, MLB players who are paid extremely well can afford to dedicate their entire lives to baseball, have private workouts in their own private gyms, they can afford their own trainers and nutritionists, they can acquire the best knowledge out there and afford to take any and every legal means of upping their performance. Pretty much no prospect can afford any of that, and yet they still have to "naturally" compete with the MLB guys, because the more MLB roster spots taken up by vets, the fewer spots available to younger players. Kids/players in general will always push the envelope as far as they can. And while it's nice to point to Big Frank and say "See? All Natural." it's kind of like pointing to Kobe Bryant and saying "All you need to do is work hard, kid." For most people in the world, those genetics simply aren't happening.