Flash Tizzle

QUOTE(Stocking @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 02:52 AM) So garland for a reliever straight up. better be gagne. No, although I appeared to suggest that. In addition to any player(s), there will be atleast one reliever to offset trading Vizcaino/Marte.

QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 02:37 AM) You wanted him to be criticized after the deadline as well for only trading for Blum and we all know how that turned out. Just let the guy do his thing, no offense flash but I think he knows a little bit more then you and I. You even said before you wouldn't judge any of Kenny's moves before knowing what comes after, yet you seem already to jump all over him for this. You seem to like bashing him for some reason. I said Williams moves are typically ones which present themselves gradually then from one trade. I never said anything about holding judgement until they're done. Or else I'd never say anything about any trade because 6 months from now a player I objected to obtaining may prove me wrong. I can stil judge individual trades for their value. I should give him benefit of doubt, but it's difficult when seemingly every offseson move involves us overpaying for players, whereas undervaluing our own talent.

QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 02:33 AM) If the Sox want to have 12 pitchers then fine, I'd honestly have no problem with Baj getting that 12th slot as long as one other quality reliever is brought in. I would have a problem with Baj. He gave up a HR to Hafner last season which is still orbiting Earth. Baj is a two pitch pitcher with neither pitch being very good. I'd only accept his role as mopup if the quality pitcher we received was an absolute stud. But here's the problem: any quality reliever obtained by the Sox would have to be from a trade. None of the free agent pitches are suitable replacements. Well, now I ask who would be our trade bait? Which player is expendable? This person would have to be good enough to net a quality reliever in return. Garland is the person . And if you trade Garland, receive your bullpen arm, it now pushes McCarthy back into the rotation. Now you have ANOTHER open spot in the bullpen. I believe Williams exposed one division of an upcoming move by including Vizcaino. Garland will be traded for, at the least, one reliever capably of substituting Viz or Marte.

QUOTE(fathom @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 02:23 AM) First, I'm sure you mean Garland, not Garcia. As I said in a PM recently, I honestly liked the health of the Sox franchise better 24 hours ago than I do right now. Flash....I don't think that Arizona is going to pay any of Vazquez's deal. KW is really, really overpaying here. Yeah, I fixed that problem. Typed too quickly and didn't bother to proofread before I posted. I'll hold out hope the financial details of the trade have yet to be released. We didn't know Vizcaino was included until nearly two hours after intitial news surfaced. If Arizona truly isn't paying ANY portion of Vazquez's deal, then Williams deserves to be heavily criticized. World Series or not, you still have to be a sensible general manager. EDIT: I didn't notice the link posted above by SSH. Until the exact figures are released, I'll hold judgement.

Trading Vizcaino, Young, Hernandez for Vazquez ALONE?! This is ridiculous. Arizona better be eating a LARGE portion of his salary. I'd rather have traded Garland. Atleast we'd have two capable bullpen arms in Hernandez and Vizcaino. Williams better have a deal situated. One which nets one, possibly two, bullpen arms in return. He may still pull of a trade which addresses these concerns, but as of now, our bullpen is in complete shambles. I If it's not obvious Williams is trading Garland now, I don't know what is. I have to believe he wouldn't deal Vizcaino if there wasn't an option out there for a replacement. Although I did mention the same phrase after Marte's departure, and to this moment, he has yet to be replaced either.

QUOTE(nitetrain8601 @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 01:46 AM) I like my pitching staff to be deep. Without McCarthy we have no insurance just in case 1 memeber of the staff goes down. It's not smart to assemble a rotation with a fully capable starting pitcher in the bullpen. Sure, it speaks to your depth, but it also removes a valuable contributer from performing his full capabilities. I don't believe Guillen will find McCarthy consistent work. Especially with a rotation renowned for consistently pitching into the 7th inning or later. Let's narrow down the opportunities for Mac to pitch: Buehlre and Garland are workhorses, Garcia puppeters Guillen, Vazquez will probably do the same as Garcia, Contreras--who knows. McCarthy is not giving the team his full potential working out of the bullpen. Pitchers are in the bullpen for a reason. If they had more than 2 pitches, or endurance, they'd be starters. As 3e8 eluded to, we're essentially keeping him down. Why, again? Are we keeping him in the bullpen solely for insurance? Doesn't sound right for Mac. It all doesn't matter to speculate, anyways. Garland will be in another uniform come spring training.

QUOTE(SSH2005 @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 01:19 AM) We all have to remember that Garland's impending trip to free agency after 2006 shoots down his trade value a great deal, especially when teams throw 5-year, $50+ million contracts at him. Which, when you consider any possible 6-man rotation, lends credence to the White Sox trading Garland now. Are you going to trade him now, with a full year of service under a team, or midseason? If you believe is value is lessened now, just wait until June. I don't believe Williams has a rotation set in mind to battle possible injuries (Garcia--WBC). And neither do I believe McCarthy deserves to be in the bullpen. He'll be lucky to work more than 3 innings in any one game he pitches. Don't do this to him. Where's the Kenny Williams' of the league? Where's the person willing to overpay? Someone has to be willing to give up talent in exchange for pitching.

QUOTE(fathom @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 12:15 AM) Quick note: there were rumblings earlier that Arizona was trying to get Cotts included in the deal. Please don't do that KW! It better not include Cotts. I trust Williams is a sane man, and those requests earlier were before Chris Young was included.

QUOTE(SoxFan1 @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 12:03 AM) As in Duke/Young/ML Reliever for Vazquez + Cash. My ass it's under those conditions. If we're giving up Duque, Young, AND a major league reliever for Vazquez that cash figure better represent a sizable portion of the contract. Or a stud prospect of theirs better be included. f*** this overpaying s***. I'm tired of it. If we're trading Garland, and Blalock (for example) is what we receive, one of their stud pitching prospects are going to be included. I don't care if he's a FA next season. Texas can remain in the perpetual pitching rut unless they accept those conditions.

QUOTE(fathom @ Dec 13, 2005 -> 11:50 PM) Rotoworld's already bashing the trade from the Sox point of view. If this trade is legit, I'm thrilled to get rid of Duque, who easily had the worst contract on the team. I'm serious when I speculate Rotoworld has NEVER complimented any trade of Williams' within the last two years. Just as they seemingly praise Beane's acqusitions and trades every opportunity given. I just don't like the position this trade puts us in. It's obvious Garland is going to be delt, and since he's likely seeking a large contract in 2007, he'll net the White Sox less in return. For once this offseason, I'd like some other team to overpay for our player. If Williams can't field a legitimate offer for Garland, leave McCarthy in the bullpen. Because I'm not giving up Garland unless a top-tier reliever, immediate impact outfielder/infielder, or prospect is included.

You can about finalize this deal--MLB is reporting it on their main page. Goodbye Duque, Young--and soon, Garland.

QUOTE(KevHead0881 @ Dec 13, 2005 -> 11:14 PM) CBS Sportsline: Deal close, involves El Duque & Young for Vasquez Disregard if already posted. So, we'd resist trading Garland, and instead have a 6 man rotation? And the absence of Chris Young? :headshake This would indicate either another trade is in the works for Garland, or McCarthy is destined for the bullpen. Trading Garland, regardless of his contract situation, should--at the least--bring back a quality reliever and prospect.

QUOTE(CubKilla @ Dec 12, 2005 -> 10:06 PM) Hopefully his upcoming death is as painful as the suffering his victims and his victims families went through...... though I know it won't be. I recall a criminal justice professor of mine alledging the lethal injection is infact painful if administered incorrectly. Which is entirely possible. The terminal agent within the mixture (responsible for stopping the heart) is an acidic compound which, if the prisoner has sensation in his body, supposedly burns when traveling through veins. If anyone was willing to make someone suffer in their last moments, they'd create a mixture which prevents the prisoner from falling asleep, yet allows them to continue feeling pain without displaying it. I have a feeling Timothy McVeigh's lethal injection mixture was "accidentally" tampered with.

QUOTE(Nokona @ Dec 12, 2005 -> 07:32 PM) Hilarious. the god-fearing republicans are running around dancing as a man is put to death. "Let God Sort 'Em." Yup. That's what Jesus would have preached. Here we have a man who has been nominated for FIVE NOBEL PEACE PRIZES. FIVE. He has been awarded Presidential honors. He is now making a contribution to society from behind bars and you all want him to die. George Bush was running around doing coke and dodging drafts. Should he be punished for what he did in his past? -Oh and when you ask if he killed anyone, what if his plane was shot down? I'm pretty damn sure 50,000+ Iraqis would still be alive. I don't consider myself a God-fearing republican. Infact, I'd be willing to label myself a conservative. On the issue of the death-penalty, I'm not a complete advocate of its use. Mr. Tookie, however, deserves death. I don't give a f*** how he "contributed" to society, or how many Nobel Peace nominations he's received. It doesn't erase the crimes commited 30 years ago. How about instead of writing books and establishing crime-free organizations, he--I don't know--shows remorse for his actions? Or possibly give up information related to unsolved murders or other criminal-related activity? Oh right, he couldn't do that and disobey the "code of the streets." He might be shunned within the Crips!

It's amazing liberals believe Williams legitimately reformed himself within prison. That issue, however you perceive it, is completely void of the 4 murders he committed over thirty years ago. How do his actions within the last ten years overshadow the horrendous crimes perpetrated? Oh, because he wrote Children books detailing the dangers of gang activity clemency should be granted! HE"S REFORMED!!! Let him "rot" in prison. Anyone here willing to speculate imprisoned Crip members may be protecting him? I doubt prison life is too troubling for Tookie. Someone who shows no remorse for his actions, nor accepts responsibility, should be left in prison for life!!! Deceased families are not the true victims here. Our justice system is! Life in prison gives him time to reflect on his actions. Well, what matters is he'll be dead tomorrow morning. World is better for it. Children's literature and current Crip gang members, however, will never be the same.

So, Boston has an extra 15 million available? Or will Gammons and the ESPN employees begin a media blitz to convince Clemens no teams exist West of the Mississippi. Honestly--he should be happy to accept 1 million to play on the East Coast. Just imagine the storylines! "Clemens returns to historic Fenway Park to oppose his former team, New York Yankees." I just got excited.

QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Dec 12, 2005 -> 01:23 AM) Basically, I'm looking at it like the Duke is Damaso's replacement. Another reliever would just be an extra I guess you could say, that's why I honestly have no problem with a Baj or Munoz. I do love the Dotel idea though. Anyways, I think Orlando will be much better in the pen then Damaso was last year, his arm is so much stronger coming out of the pen that it makes his junk much better as well. Cheat makes a good point about Kenny not even giving Ozzie a chance to be cute with a 2nd lefty. If Duque is willing to work out of the bullpen, I'd have no problem with that. Quotes from Guillen several weeks ago didn't appear too open to the idea. Perhaps his position has changed with Marte gone.

QUOTE(sox-r-us @ Dec 12, 2005 -> 01:14 AM) I would not mind Mullholand He is not bad for the occasional lefty out from the pen...we can always upgrade at trade deadline....maybe get Eddie Guardardo from the Ms then Championship teams don't trade relievers and replace them with Mullholand. I better not hear his old ass connected with our club in any form. I don't approve the philosophy of simply treading water with a terrible pitcher and potentially upgrading them midseason. I'd prefer Williams works out his problems now. That's what the offseason is for. Don't leave positions open for your roster and merely hope a player is available at the trading deadline. Do it now.

QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Dec 12, 2005 -> 01:02 AM) Marte literally was horrendous last year, I won't be happy with any reliever that duplicates Damaso's year. If Marte was horrendous, what was Mike Jackson two seasons ago? Or Shingo Takatsu earlier last season? I don't want our ballclub to endure any pitching retread (ie, the remaining FA bullpen help) that will remind us of the previously mentioned players. Not many appear worried about trading Marte. If you believe he departure was neccessary, fine. Now, locate a suitable replacement. Where's he going to come from, for how much, and is the pitcher of equal or greater value? I just won't accept a drop in bullpen production for the sake of a supersub in Macowiak. Signing Dotel seems a reasonable solution, but it doesn't help us for the first several months.

QUOTE(SSH2005 @ Dec 11, 2005 -> 10:49 PM) Dotel is now saying that he won't be ready to pitch until midseason. http://www.nj.com/sports/ledger/index.ssf?...9580.xml&coll=1 There's no way Kenny signs a reliever that won't be able to pitch for half the season when we already have Hermanson who may miss time with his back. If Williams won't, another team will. Hermanson's back troubles, if anything, should give Williams more initiative to sign Dotel. In the event Hermanson requires an extended amount of time off, it'd be nice to have an option such as Dotel available midseason IF options aren't available via trade or minor leagues. Or in the unfortunate circumstance of an injury to another reliever. It doesn't matter to me whether a left-hander is sign specifically for the duty of retiring left-handers. My concern? Williams better locate a reliever of equal or greater value than Marte. And despite the consensus Marte was a headcase and seemingly worthless to this team, I'll GUARANTEE we'll be happy if his replacement deplicates Marte's numbers from last year.

Robert DeNiro can't save him now. Dumb bastard. Ironic how someone who seemingly learns from his mistakes in Bronx Tale is involved in the slaying of a police officer. Hope he finds himself a nice prison mate willing to protect his worthless ass. I'm sure his stereotypical tough guy, Italian image that has graced his well known acting performances will earn the resoect of fellow convicts.

QUOTE(bmags @ Dec 10, 2005 -> 12:22 PM) they'll make you liberal yah, i watched that follow up, i can' believe that ugly bastage got johanna You're thinking of the pasty white dufus named Wes. Danny, the Bostonian whom appeared to be wearing some sort of lip gloss on the followup show, dated Melinda. Yeah, I tuned in enough to catch certain cast details.

Not that I'm suggesting anything by my question, but how many security guards are watching the trophy? It's odd how it justs sits behind a simple tag in those pictures, yet at City Hall it was placed within glass.

Well, you see--our minor league pitching isn't very dependable. Obviously you don't remember 2003's 5th starter debacle. McCarthy will likely be a fixture in our rotation, then after him, who knows? Might be another 5 years until a servicable pitcher arises from the minors.

QUOTE(Jake @ Dec 9, 2005 -> 11:10 PM) He told me that Pippen thrived around a lot of talent that was still left. I dunno.. you tell me what to think here. Pippen guided the Jordan-less Bulls to the Eastern Conference Finals in 1994. f***, he was under serious consideration for MVP. If not for a phantom foul call in New York, it could have been possible the Bulls retained their crown. He'll always be remembered for being Jordans 'sidekick,' but those who know the game realize he was a quality player in his own regard.