ChiSox59

Glad you find that funny @maloney.adam! Trading Vaughn for short term rotation help is idiotic.

Some of us want to be good for the next 5-7 years, not push all the chips in right now and suck balls again in 24.

Vaughn for Bassitt or Gray/Castillo would be very disappointing. I don't think we have enough to get either without him, but talk about going all in on the next 2 years and shortening this window. If that's the plan, there is a surefire way to do it!

Does the FRAA include Vaughn's time at other positions? He was notably less comfortable in RF than LF in a small sample. I am not an expert at defensive advanced stats. Will admit as much. I do know that OAA is considered the best OF defense metric, so perhaps I was wrong all stats show AV being superior in LF in 21. I know UZR is usually better for infielders, but that supports that AV was better than Eloy in LF. Eloy: UZR: -0.7 UZR/150: -6.7 AV: UZR: 2.1 UZR/150: 3.5 That said, I watch 95% of all Sox games, so I've seen quite a bit of Eloy and Vaughn in LF (obviously you have as well), and it was pretty obvious to the eye (in my opinion; which certainly seems to be supported by others on here) that Vaughn is a superior LF to Eloy. I also think AV has plenty of room to grow out there, while Eloy likely is what he is since that's his "natural" position. This also discounts that Eloy is a danger to himself and others, which is notable. Regardless, this is all sort of irrelevant to the fact that none of Eloy, AV or Schwarber are good OF defenders. At max, 1 should be playing the OF regularly. Adding Schwarber makes that impossible. He's a terrible fit for this roster unless core pieces are traded.

Ahh yes, the old "sox have always been bad at defense, so nothing new" take. Let's improve the defense this offseason, not make it worse. I disagree strongly on the bolded. Eloy is a horrible LF. He is also a danger to himself, to Luis and to the infielders. Vaughn graded out as a significantly better LF than Eloy in 21 (pick the metric, they all say the same) - at a position he hadn't played since little league. Could they both improve? Sure. But I'd 100% prefer Vaughn in LF to Eloy for a multitude of reasons, not the least of which is Eloy is only valuable to this team if he is batting everyday and playing LF puts his availability in constant danger.

We would have...EASILY....the worst defense in the league. Schwarber makes ZERO sense on this roster. None what so ever. We already have a glut of bad corner OF / 1B / DH types, and we're adding another? It makes no sense. Yes the bat is nice, but as Hawk says, "where he gonna play?". So you sign Schwarber, you now basically have to trade one of Eloy/Vaughn. Its likely Vaughn (who is the best OF defender of the 3, probably) and now you're stuck playing 2 of Eloy/Schwarber/Sheets in the OF nearly everyday. ITs terrible. And you're paying him $20M AAV to boot? Hate hate hate hate hate it. But it what a "White Soxy" move, so I wouldn't put it past them.

Good lord what an awful offseason that would be.

Maybe worded poorly. But was also kind grouping the shortstops into that as well - which frankly Semien probably thinks he is anyway. I just think the Sox can find better value at 2B than paying Segura $15M in 2022 - whether that is via trade or FA. I wouldn't hate a Segura/Kimbrel trade, especially if Conforto is signed for RF, just seems like if that was the plan, they should have just declined Kimbrel's option and used the $16M elsewhere. I also, ideally, would like a lefty at 2B but I can get over that if Conforto is on the roster.

How could there not be significant interest, frankly from both sides. Its a match made in heaven.

If the Sox didn't have an option on Kimbrel, a Segura-Kimbrel swap would be fine. But considering the Sox pickuped up Kimbrel's option, trading him for a 2B making roughly the same when there are a ton of FA 2B that are as good or good fits than Segura, makes it a far less interesting trade.

Probably wouldn’t be the route I would go, but not going to out much stock into a Boob tweet.

They can still do everything you just said. Spending $24M on a solid major league reliever over the next 3 seasons doesn't stop them from any of that. But going into 2022 with the guys I mentioned plus a few lightning in a bottle NRI you're suggesting is craziness. I get it - you don't like Graveman. That's fine. But you're overreacting a tad here.

Mmmk.

So lemme get this straight - you wanted to go into 2021 with a bullpen of Hendriks, Bummer, Crochet, Ruiz, Lopez, Foster, Burr and the winner of Lambert/Stiever/Sousa/Severino in ST? Because that is what you're looking at if you don't add a major league reliever.

Yawn. They're trading Kimbrel. I am not rehashing how terrible that move was. I have been consistently against that since hte day it happened; as I believe you were/are as well. They're losing Kopech, Tepera and Kimbrel from 2020 pen. A reliever quite obviously needed to be added. I am not going to lose sleep over $8M. If Kimbrel doesn't get traded, go ahead and b**** about paying these 3 relievers $40M.

I mean, its $8M AAV for at worst a solid reliever, and at best an elite set up man. He's also a GB machine which plays great in our park. There are plenty of things to b**** about - this isn't one of them.

Nice move.

Yep. I am fine with Eloy playing some LF for now, even just to keep him happy. I think/hope Sox should continue to work Vaughn in around the diamond a day or two a week while he's young. The Sox will likely win the division handily again next season - we can allow Eloy to play LF a day or two a week and deploy Vaughn elsewhere. Mix in Sheets, etc. But the days of Eloy running out to LF everyday need to be over. He's a danger to himself and everyone around him. Eloy is only good to the Sox if he's in the lineup raking. Vaughn is already easily a better LF (he graded out average this year amongst his peers in LF), and I think he can continue to improve. Get Conforto on this roster, and we can afford to wait back and see what happens with the 2B market.

Team defense is at worst average with Vaughn in LF, Conforto in RF and a solid defender at 2B (lots of options). The key to improving OF defense is putting Eloy at DH 75%+ amount of the time, where he belongs. He’s a DH. It’s time to make him one.

And if he has a season of sustained success in 22 - which he is certainly capable of doing - while continuing to show average defense in LF, he's likely worth more than he is today. AV was solid, but didn't exactly light the world on fire in his rookie campaign. I don't think his value is at its highest by any means. The guy went from high A to the big leagues all while learning a position he hadn't played since little league - he's going to improve immensely in 22.

I am completely unconcerned about finding at bats for Sheets. He'll get his opportunities. Moving Vaughn or Eloy to make room for everyday at bats for Gavin Sheets would go down as a historic mistake.

First off - I didn't see Ketel Marte's name mentioned in the last few pages that I just read. That makes some sense from the Sox perspective. Was moreso referring to the Pablo Lopez, John Means, Lourdes Guerriel level takes

Such an easy and clear solution.

NEITHER. Neither should be traded this offseason. Can always revisit in the future - and the benefit to that is that both will probably be more valuable via trade in a year than they are right now. However, I don't want to trade either as both are cornerstones of this offensive moving forward - Eloy as DH and Vaughn as LF. Vaughn can transition to 1B when father time catches Jose, whenever that may be.

Stopppp