ChiSox59

IMO, the Sox SP is good enough to win a world series as is. They just need to show up. We have 4 guys who are all TOR caliber pitchers. Unfortunately, they all flopped in the playoffs. Would it be great to add a legit #1? Of course. But I don't see hte sox handing Scherzer 2/$80M, and I also don't see that ending all that well if they did.

Thanks, completely forgot about that. Appreciate reminder.

I actually said this day trade was made. I love Heuer. So not revisionist history for all. Bad trade was bad and got worse everyday.

Yeah - no. Love Liam and he was a good fit and signing, but I don't put relievers on the same level of impact as everyday players.

Only 2 more years of Gio and Lynn, each.

Yeah, its a concern. I'd love to bring in a legit SP too, just don't think its realistic to plug every hole. Between Archer, Quintana, Lambert, Stiever and McClure they can hold down the #5 spot and see if anyone is worthy and if not make a move in June. Between the latter 3 mentioned above, these guys aren't getting any younger and we're pretty much at sink or swim time. You also have Lopez would could factor in and perhaps Crochet in the 2nd half. So there are options. The non-tender deadline should unearth a few more cheap options in FA, so I reserve my right to adjust the Archer pick for #5 spot until then. But I just don't think Conforto + top end SP is happening. And I really, really, really, really do not want to trade Vaughn. Or Eloy. I would, however, trade some our HS pitching prospects if any of them have any value left to get back a solid innings eater type in last year or two of arb. But Kelley, Thompson and Dalquist all sucked in 2021, so not holding my breath.

Sign Conforto (4 years; $70M) Trade Keuchel + Burger for Tommy La Stella (stealing La Stella idea from @Chicago White Sox), Re-sign Leury (2 years; $8M); LaStella may not be ready for ST and TLR loves him some Larry; All you can eat AAAA trade: Zack Collins, Micker Adolfo and Blake Rutherford to PIT for Jacob Stallings (all those guys get a chance with a bad club that can give them the chances) Trade Kimbrel to Phillies for Seranthony Dominguez and Mickey Moniak (Phils eat whole bill; Moniak just AAAA insurance and likely nothingburger) Re-sign Ryan Tepera (2 years; $15M) Sign Chris Archer (1 year; $7.5M full of incentives) Sign Jose Quintana to minor league deal Roll up your sleeves and going to work with one of the best rosters in the game. Payroll in this scenario is in the low-$180M, which frankly is about as low as it can realistically be if Sox are serious.

I am extremely bullish on Kopech as a starter. Truthfully, I think he can be one of the best in the game. There will be some lumps in 2022, and you can't expect him to pitch more than 150 innings or so. But its time. He's going to be good. Its just a damn shame we're already down to 4 years of control due to complete mismanagement. I expect him to be one of our better SP next summer.

The savings remains to be seen, but 5-6 year deal in the $20-23’ m range was probably what he looking at coming off 2020. Something just slightly below what Springer got. At that price, I’d pass. At 4/$70M, he’s at worst making what he’s worth as long as he stays healthy. Bottom line is there are limited options in FA to fix the Sox problem. Conforto is an obvious solution.

It could also turn into a great contract quick. Conforto hurt his payday with a down 21. To what extent, we don’t quite know yet. But if he falls in the 3-4 year deal between $15-$18M AAV most think, he could easily become a bargain and those are hard to find in FA. Conforto solves a lot of problems with this offense and he (while not an elite defender) substantially improves the current OF defense. He’s far and away the best free agent for the Sox that is realistic since Yasmani Grandal.

$8.5M for a guy the Yanks basically DFA in September.

Which is almost exactly double the 2/$38M deal you're pointing to as evidence. You may well be right about the Sox signing Scherzer. But I will believe it when it see it, and giving him perhaps the last deal of his career does feel like something the Sox would do. Let's pay a premium price for a player that is not nearly what he once was is something they've traditionally liked to do, though admittedly not a player this expensive.

His inability to work more than 5 innings the 2nd half of the season and multiple trips to IL would seem to agree. Yet some want to make him one of the highest paid players on the team? I get it - it was a close call. But the outrage is silly. Sox were handcuffed if he accepted. Much like they are with Kimbrel.

I would have rode him hard and put him away wet and let him be someone else's problem in 22. I've said this numerous times even early in this season. Feel free to look it up. They did precisely what I beleived was the best route. Did I think he'd have the 2.5 months he did? Nah. But the dude wasn't useful in the 2nd half and he's not worth the risk of $18.3M. Had Carlos done something he's really never done...stay healthy....we wouldn't be having this conversation. But, as always, he didn't...and he cost himself a ton of $. Just a few short months ago you were clamoring about how he was going to surpass Wheeler's $120M.

Sure, but we all know they aren't blowing by $200M. So you can nitpick all you want, but when we have likely an $180M max budget, spending $18.5M on a pitcher that's been above average for 1 2.5 month stint in a 6 year career and has MAJOR injury concerns....maybe....just maybe....is not a wise allocation of resources.

Balta is always smarter than the white sox. This is Soxtalk 101.

Orrrrrr they think he's highly likely to accept because his arm isn't healthy, even if there isn't structural damage. No one knows his medicals better than the Sox. This is one I am willing to give them the benefit of the doubt on. Rodon wasn't good in the 2nd half and didn't pitch over 5 innings after his first start following the ASG. That version of him is a terrible gamble for $18.3M.

Ray - you have to consider the fact that no one is more in tune with Carlos arm and shoulder than the Sox. If he's simply not going to be able to give you a full season's workload, or heck, even 75% of what he gave you in 21, its not worth $18.3M. I have zero issue with the Sox reallocating those funds. That $18M could be as much at 75% of what we have to spend. Extending the QO to Rodon was a big risk. Things would need to go swimmingly to end up in the green on that one.

That is generally what happens when you see pay raises across the board, some of the team leaving via FA and no FA have signed yet. Literally most competitive clubs are in the exact same situation as we sit a week after the WS ended. 1st half Rodon is a huge loss. 2nd half Rodon isn't. We all know which half we're more likely to get moving forward.

I am not upset by it. Chances Rodon turns in a similar campaign to 2021 in 22 are very low. Chances he throws above 100 innings is very low. Not risking $18.3M on that.

Yeah, I mean 15 to 1 odds are not how you make good gambles. Only way this all makes sense if they’re positive they have a trade partner garnering something cheap and useful, or the budget as we all know it will be smashed and they’re fine paying Kimbrel $16M and solving all other club needs. I guess we’ll see.

If the Sox trade Kimbrel for a bag of balls or a “broken bat” how is that the right call? They’re effectively risking $15M to save $1M. I’m a gambling man, and those are bad odds.

Fair. My comment was off the cuff. I don’t think Kimbrel is a terrible pitcher, but I think the Sox can allocate his $ in a much better fashion. If we’re just dumping him for another bad contract, picking up thr option was a dumb call. If jR is willing to spend $200M on this team - good, great, grand.

His sample Sox of actually being good since his Cubs tenure started is much smaller than being just a guy.

Why not just save the $15M and spend it on Conforto if you're trading for another bad contract? Don't invest good money after bad - you know that as well as anyone. Trading Kimbrel for salary relief and something cheap and interesting in a far better route, IMO.