SCCWS

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ May 26, 2014 -> 11:10 AM) Or Jason Grilli in 2014, compared to 2013. Or Jim Johnson, one of Beane's biggest brain farts. Hard to do it on a consistent, year-in, year-out basis. Other than Rivera, Nathan until recent years, Hoffman (part of that was PetCo) and Soria before all of his injuries, there just weren't many "close to automatic" closers. Kimbrel's pretty near to that level, a notch below. For one season, sure...but not for 5+ years in a row. Or look at Gagne and Brian Wilson. When closers do have those huge save seasons, like a Thigpen or K-Rod, they're almost never the same after. Koch is 2003 with us. Agree and even Hermanson in 2005 closed for us and was never the same. Papelbon is another closer who has put up a string of pretty good years.

QUOTE (Reddy @ May 25, 2014 -> 02:14 PM) Weird I thought closers WERE relief pitchers. Whatever happened to Dustin Hermanson? Closers are relievers but not every reliever is a closer. Baseball has this thing vcalled the set-up man. Think of matt Thornton. Reliever his whole career. But he has had more blown saves in his career than saves. He was a verg good reliever for us. But he didn't have the mental make-up to close. You bring up Hermananson. Another great example. Starter his whole career becomes a reliever at 31 and closes in 05 at age 32. Then his body gave out and he retired in 06. Again, not every one can be a closer.

QUOTE (Reddy @ May 25, 2014 -> 12:12 PM) How long was Eric Gagne a quality closer? Heath Bell? Bobby Jenks? Outside of Mariano Rivera, Trevor Hoffman and Dennis Eckersley, can you name me a closer who's been worth the money he got paid? BJ Ryan. Need I say more? Why don't you tell me about our 2005 bullpen. Those guys must have had extremely long, fulfilling, careers given the types of numbers they put up that year. Oh... oh wait... pretty much all of them disappeared immediately following '05 except for Jenks and Marte. Bullpens are fickle. Relief pitchers even more so. Paying top dollar for a reliever is asinine. If you can trade a reliever for a 3B, you do it every. Single. Time. Joe Nathan got 9 Mil. Again you are saying reliever, I am saying closer. Hahn should move Beckham back to a 3rd baseman and then we can trade him for a closer in return based on your logic.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ May 25, 2014 -> 12:01 PM) If "quality" closers are at a premuim, what does that make 30 homer potential 3B's? Quality 3B. I don't disagree. But Reed was closing games in the majors and Davidson was hitting 20 HRs in the minors. Huge difference. Davidson is also a very questionable 3B defensively. I was very much against the Peavy for Middlebrooks talk last season. Another 3B prospect, even a little more advanced than Davidson but also questionable defensively as well. He is still struggling big time so I am glad we went w Garcia. It all comes down to how easy it is to find a quality closer when we are ready to compete. We don't need one this year because we are rebuilding. The big name closers like Papilbon and Nathan got big bucks in FA and I am not sure hahn will invest that. In fact Boston went out and signed 2 closers for over 11Mil to replace Papilbon. Too many fans think anyone can be a closer. I think we gave up a good one that was young and could get better.

QUOTE (Reddy @ May 25, 2014 -> 11:46 AM) everything in this post regarding relief pitchers is completely, 100% backwards. I think quality closers are a premiun and you don't trade one for a good prospect. Let's see how fast Davidson becomes an impact player and how fast we get a quality closer.

QUOTE (Rowand44 @ May 25, 2014 -> 10:08 AM) Addison Reed is nothing special, not even close to anything special to be honest. Davidson could definitely turn out to be a bust but I'd do that trade each and every time. And I agree that Webb should be closing. He might not be our best reliever at the moment but I'm tired of taking guys out of roles they're successful in to make them the closer. Webb has been a closer for a bit now in the minors, let him do that and keep Belly in the middle relief role that he was pitching so well in. Addison Reed had 40 saves on a lousy White Sox team last year. He has consistently been in the top 10 in saves for close to 3 years. You are saying Davidson "could" turn out to be a good player and I agree. But we traded a ML player who presently is in the Top 10 in his category and is only 25 years old, which is young for a closer, for a young prospect who has averaged 20 hrs, hit .260 but strikes out a lot in the minors. Plus Reed makes $550,00 which is not much more than Webb makes and is 1/6 what Scott Downs makes. Reed is still on a lousy team and he has more saves (13) than our entire pitching staff (9).

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ May 25, 2014 -> 09:51 AM) At the time of the trade, did you have reason to believe (and still today) that Conor Gillaspie would hit well enough against lefties, as well as hit for enough power in general and defend at an improved enough level to hold down 3B for the next 3-5 years? No and I still don't. But Relief pitchers are damned hard to find. Worse, sometimes you find one and they don't last long ( Bobby Jenks). An established reliever( Reed was top 10) is worth more, in my opinion, than a good prospect( Davidson). Even if you are rebuilding, Reed was young enough to last through it. I had no problem with Santiago for Eaton, whether it works or not, because CF is a primary position and look how long we have been trying to find one. I posted at the time of Reed trade that I hoped they had a long term plan to replace him. Maybe Webb( or Jones) will makeup for the loss of Reed by late summer. I just hope we don't start 2015 with the same problem.

QUOTE (kev211 @ May 25, 2014 -> 09:09 AM) Not a snowballs chance in hell, he shouldn't and wouldn't. Scott Downs makes $3.7 Mil and Lindstrom makes 4 Mil. I would still take Reed at 550,000 .

QUOTE (Jake @ May 24, 2014 -> 05:51 PM) Webb is pitching the fourth best of the active pitchers in our bullpen. I'd like him to prove a little more first The kid closing in Arizona already has 12 saves. Why don't we package Davidson and Eaton and see if we can get him.

QUOTE (flavum @ May 24, 2014 -> 10:00 AM) The Sox have survived the first 50 games of the season. Still in it. Let's see what the next 50 games bring, and if they're out of it on July 20, then it's time to move guys. . They are still in it at 25-25. Of course, last year, they were 24-24 at this point and we know how far south that went.

QUOTE (HickoryHuskers @ May 24, 2014 -> 07:43 AM) As much as I'd hate to see Dunn go, his trade value is skyrocketing right now, and even if the Sox keep Dunn and sneak into a WC spot, I don't see the starting pitching there to make a serious postseason run. Some teams are going to be very desperate for a power bat come July. Not necessarily skyrocketing. He is on base to hit 25 homers and drive in 70 runs. Hopefully he looks acceptable playing 1st that an NL team might be tempted as well.

QUOTE (bmags @ May 23, 2014 -> 08:27 AM) Last night was fun. I'm glad we decided not to shut him down for ten years. As I posted during the game, if you are old enough= Sandy Koufax like

QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ May 22, 2014 -> 09:36 PM) I know this is wrong but I want him to stay in until you know what. Heat of the moment I gues He looks like like Sandy Koufax. Totally overpowering.

QUOTE (Jake @ May 22, 2014 -> 03:43 PM) How do you figure? Was it the 117 wRC+ (a league adjusted stat) in AAA? The 108 wRC+ in MLB? Maybe the .308/.341/.564 line in spring training this year? Was the 17% K rate in that stretch too high? The first time you could make a half decent argument that he looked like a non-regular would have been a couple weeks into his stint at Charlotte So far he is a strikeout machine in 1.25 seasons at AAA. He has struck out at a 33% K rate between last year and this year and he is up to close to a 40% K rate this season. He makes Dunn and Flowers look like contact hitters.

QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ May 21, 2014 -> 06:01 PM) LaMarr Houston (new Bears DL) will be throwing out the first pitch tomorrow before Sale's start. If Houston gets hurt doing it, we will know the mound is too high.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ May 19, 2014 -> 08:41 PM) I think Quintana being moved might be a possibility given the long-term pitching issues we have. Actually they may be short term pitching issues. They could get a stud in the draft and Johnson could well be back in the rotation this year. Q will not be moved.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ May 19, 2014 -> 03:53 PM) This is a message board and it's a valid point of discussion. Odds are, the Sox will be out of the race by the time the deadline rolls around and they'll be looking to sell a few pieces that won't be on the team next year. Considering some people are already considering roster decisions based on the 2016 roster, it's never too early to start talking about potential trades. It doesn't mean people still aren't appreciating what they have going on or don't want to watch games for this season, but that it's not likely to happen this year. That said... this is wrong too because the Sox are only 2.5 out of the Wild Card even with the injuries they've suffered thus far. Given a break or two, this team could easily compete for a Wild Card spot all year. You don't just sell to sell and you don't just assume that this team has absolutely no shot. They were closer to the wild card last year at this point of the season. They are probably going to lose 90 games (hopefully no more than that) which is a step up from last year but that won't be wild card material.

QUOTE (elrockinMT @ May 19, 2014 -> 02:11 PM) We lost a couple games in Houston but it's too early for trade talk. What if we are in the hunt for a wild card spot? Put that bottle down.

QUOTE (greg775 @ May 18, 2014 -> 09:31 PM) Dunn should be proud. That's quite a feat. Surely that hasn't been done many times in baseball history. I mean at some point you take a weak swing at least on strike three. Put into perspective, I heard on the Tigers/Red Sox last night that Victor Martinez has not struck out on a called 3rd strike in over 500 ABs.

QUOTE (Stan Bahnsen @ May 16, 2014 -> 08:56 AM) All the rainouts have allowed them to pitch their Aces in a crazy-high % of games so far. This will change. Yeah, it'll take a lot, but not impossible. Verlander and Scherzer have 9 starts after their game last night. Quintana has 9 and Danks makes his 9th tomorrrow. If Sale was healthy he would already have 9. Their 5 less games results in one turn of the rotation .Scherzer dominated Boston last night.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ May 16, 2014 -> 04:00 PM) Handedness matters very little in this instance. Draft the best arm you can. Would it really be a bad thing to have two pitchers like Chris Sale in the rotation? No but if you agree Sale is the best LH in baseball, you probably are not going to get someone jthat good. With Quintana already in the rotation, I was hoping a RH stud would fall in our laps. But as i posted, we will get who ends up 3rd

QUOTE (Charlie Haeger's Knuckles @ May 16, 2014 -> 02:27 PM) Ha. After I posted about how "I hope the Sox draft Kolek" I watched video of him. Reminds me of Jonathon Broxton. Big guy with max effort motion. I cant imagine he stays healthy / away from the bullpen. Since we probably have the best LH in baseball, I was hoping we take a RH in thi spot. But the decision will probably be made for us.

QUOTE (lasttriptotulsa @ May 16, 2014 -> 08:15 AM) Yep only 120 more games to make up 10, might as well pack it in and call it a season. The Sox have 13 games left with the Tigers and the Tigers are going to be stuck either playing a lot of double headers or losing off days because of all their rainouts. There is plenty of time to make up ground. We've also been without our #1,2 and 4 starters, starting CF and lead off hitter, starting 2B, 3B and RF for significant amounts of time. Considering that our #1 and #4 starters, CF, 2B and 3B are either back or coming back soon, the Sox are in decent shape. Tigers have 7 guys on the DL. You forgot Jones for us. Injuries are very much a normal part of baseball these days. In fact Texas has 13 on their DL. My concern is Detroit is winning despite injuries. When we get guys heading to the DL, we replace them w average AA/AAA type players.

QUOTE (VAfan @ May 15, 2014 -> 09:33 PM) Who hired the new hitting coach? If it's Hahn, that has to be added to the list as a HUGE positive. However, I agree with the person who didn't like the Ventura extension. Living in Virginia, I don't get to see that many games. But in the games I've seen, as often as not I felt Ventura really blew the game management to the point of helping LOSE the game. What's amazing to me is the Hahn has put in place the position players who could compete, with the major need now the revamping of the pitching staff. Since the Sox have tended to be better at developing pitchers than position players, this is an excellent approach. C - Tyler Flowers new hitting success makes him a viable option at catcher. 1B - covered with Abreu for 6 years of his prime. 2B - a possibly rejuvenated Gordon Beckham, and several options nearly ready behind him SS - still have Ramirez, who is experiencing an offensive resurgence. One of the best SS in the game 3B - Conor Gillaspie adds a necessary LH bat, and we have a power hitting righty who is nearly ML ready LF - Dayan Viciedo may have started to figure it out offensively. CF - Eaton, IF he can stay healthy, is a fantastic sparkplug leadoff guy RF - Avisail Garcia is still very young, but has potential to round out a solid outfield DH - Adam Dunn is not as bad as most of us make him out to be. We need a lefty power bat here if Dunn is gone next year. Hahn's additions are: Abreu, Eaton, Avi, Gillaspie, and some depth. The hitting coach gets some credit for the improvement of: Ramirez, Viciedo, Flowers, Beckham, and possibly Dunn. For that, we gave up Peavy, Rios, Santiago, Reed. Konerko came back for a fraction of his prior deal. I don't think these position players can compete. The good thing is we have a few years to add morre pieces. I think the outfield has the potential to compete. They are young and I think Garcia has a world of potential. But they are very average defensively. Abreu is a stud but by the time we comete within the division, I think 2nd, 3rd and SS will all be new. Flowers is still very questionable. He had a great month but he still has more strikeouts than any catcher in baseball. I think the question remains will his average stay up( not 300+ but hopefully .275 and his strikeouts come down. He strikes out more than Dunn does.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ May 15, 2014 -> 03:11 PM) The only move I didn't like at the time was the Peavy deal, as I've long thought Avisail overrated before we acquired him. I'm still not a big Avi fan, but I do believe it was the best deal that was on the table, and I think moving Peavy then was the right thing to do. Time will tell if it was the best deal. The White Sox could have had Iglesias(+) but Hahn wanted an outfielder. If the Sox did that trade then they could have swapped Alexei over the winter. I do like Avi but I saw a lot of Iglesias and he will be a gold glove SS for years to come. Not sure who else Boston would have included or if it would be the same guys ithey threw in the eventual trade. Ironic both Iglesias and Avi are out for the season.