TheFutureIsNear

QUOTE (Con te Giolito @ Jan 7, 2017 -> 06:30 PM) OK let me put it a different way. The Astros rotation is not capable of taking a team to the World Series, and probably not even the playoffs. They won 84 games last year and they are essentially adding McCann, Beltran, Reddick, Bregman, and Gurriell to their lineup. The last 2 were on the team for the stretch run last year, but adding those 5 to your lineup for a full year is no joke. If Kuechle and McCullers are healthy I dint think 90 wins is crazy at all.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jan 7, 2017 -> 03:21 PM) Let's say I bought the car before I decided to return to college, back when I actually had a decent-paying job. Now I know I should sell the car, but what if the offers I'm receiving aren't fair value? Yes, I know the car is depreciating the longer I keep it, but where is that balance between obtaining full market value and holding on to a depreciating asset that I have no need for? That's the question. I don't see how that's even a question honestly. At some point you have to realize that you're just spiting yourself to hold out for "value." Unfortunately Q's value isn't what the White Sox say it is, it's what other teams are willing to pay. So if his market isn't up to your par now after the season Q just had and the 4 years of control, why on earth would it be better down the line? There's honestly no logical argument to keeping Q on this team past the 2017 deadline. And even waiting until the deadline is a mistake in my opinion, but I can at least somewhat see Hahn holding out for as long as he can if the offers truly aren't up to snuff. I think something will definitely break at some point in the next month though, Q is too good for every team to pass on trading for. Someone will step up for him.

Jason Coats has the same amount of extremities as Mike Trout so he deserves a shot! Come on people, Coats literally has no discernible skill set that makes you believe he will succeed in the majors. It's like people don't understand what a AAAA player is.

Put your tissues away people, Coats will probably go unclaimed. And even if he does he's just going to sit in another team's AAA team. It's just Jason Coats, relax

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jan 6, 2017 -> 11:48 PM) Then acquiring Gurriel, Beltran and McCann didn't make much sense if they want to continue to give at-bats to Gattis as well. The equation doesn't work if you're trying to play Bregman, not to mention AJ Reed. Something has to give. From all reports, Gurriel is an above-average defender at 3b, too. McCann and Gattis are going to catch more than you think...they have to. They let Castro walk and Max Stassi is their only other C and he can't hit a lick. C- McCann/Gattis 1B- Gurriel/McCann 2b- Altuve SS- Correa 3B- Bregman LF- Beltran/Gattis/Aoki CF- Springer RF- Reddick DH- Beltran/McCann/Gattis Gattis and Aoki are not going to keep Alex Bregman from playing. Bregman could even see a decent amount of time in LF while also filling in at SS and 2B when needed.

I still say the Yankees are the best fit. Even without Torres Clint Frazier, Justice Sheffield, Dustin Fowler, and Josh Rogers or say screw it and take a mega depth package from the Yankees without any of Torres, Frazier, or Sheffield if the Yankees insist on overvaluing them. It's crazy but the Yankees actually have enough depth and talent to do it. Jorge Mateo, Blake Rutherford, James Kaprielian, Jorge Andujuar, and Domingo Acevedo

Isn't there a certain date where we can still cut Lawrie (and Avi) without paying them? With Anderson, Frazier, Sally, Sanchez, and Davidson likely to have 25 man roster spots already I wonder if they view Asche as added IF/LF depth at a fraction of the price to Lawrie? I can't see any team trading for Lawrie, and giving him AB's at this point is pretty useless.

Nice, Asche was a guy I wanted us to target. Not that he's a big signing or anything, but a 26 year old LH hitter that can play IF/OF makes a lot of sense for this team. Respectable .286/.345/.449 over his minor league career....never know could turn into a useful platoon/utl guy.

Discussing Abreu's trade market is kinda pointless...because there isn't 1. I don't see any team giving up anything of real value for any 1B/DH type of player in a trade with the FA market still the way it is. If he were on the market I think he would have gotten a deal by now though. No where near Encarnacion, but I could see him getting 3 or 4 years at $13-16M per year.

Idk, the more I look at it the more I'm starting to think the Astros prospects are a little overrated. Don't get me wrong, they still have a very deep and talented system, but I'm starting to question how good of a duo Martes/Tucker really is. If the Gammons rumor of the offer for Archer is true there has to be something up between the Sox and Astros. If Martes and Tucker + is really on the table for a SP and there's no deal yet it tells me that either the Astros don't like Q or the Sox don't like Martes and or Tucker....or Peter gammons is possibly making stuff up...The connection for the trade just seems too obvious, I can't believe the 3rd and 4th pieces of the deal have been holding it up for a month +.

QUOTE (ptatc @ Jan 5, 2017 -> 10:20 AM) There is good value to an advanced hit tool in a switch hitter along with a high OBP. He profiles as a guy like Mark Grace who was routinely bashed for a lack of power but led the 90's in hits. I would take that. Yeah I recognize that. I'm not trying to bash him as an overall prospect/player, I do think he will be able to be a fine regular and I wouldn't be at all upset if we acquired him...He just wouldn't be an ideal #1 hitting prospect we get back for Q in my opinion. I question what his ceiling is, especially if he doesn't become at least an above average defender at 1B.. Mark Grace would be an ideal scenario for Bell, but he could also be Lyle Overbay.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Jan 4, 2017 -> 11:13 PM) I think Kyle Tucker will be on that list by mid-season next year. And A.J. Reed would have been on this list 12 months ago before he had a rough first go in the majors (one that is remarkably similar to Anthony Rizzo's) which has greatly suppressed his value. Give me those two guys plus Martes & a lottery ticket (who could a decent prospect considering the Astros' depth) and I think you have the framework of a very solid deal and one that gets us two good looking bats. Little early to declare Tucker a slam dunk to be a top 20 prospect for me...he needs to actually put up some #'s this year as he's nothing but potential so far. Obviously he's still extremely young and he's certainly capable of doing it, I'm just not sure anyone knows exactly what his potential is right now. And something tells me that an offer like this would have been on the table by now if it was a viable 1...either the Astros don't want to give up 1 of those guys or the Sox aren't that interested in 1 of them. The fact that the Astros are such an obvious destination for Q and nothing has even even got close tells me something is wrong there. That's just me guessing of course...

QUOTE (Buehrlesque @ Jan 5, 2017 -> 09:29 AM) Rodgers, Frazier, Meadows and Bell would be the ones I'd prefer. No interest at all in Mateo. I don't get why people would want Maitan as a major piece in a Braves deal. The kid is 16 years old! Way too risky for me, considering the slam dunk certainty of Quintana the Sox would be giving up. There is plenty of high end prospect talent available without taking on someone so far away who has an enormous bust risk. I know he wouldn't necessarily be a centerpiece, but still, he'd cost a lot to acquire thus lessening other parts of the package, and it wouldn't be my game plan. I'd take Mateo over Bell...A prospect that is limited to 1B defensively that had a .454 SLG% and only 44 HR's in over 2,000 PA's in the minors is a huge red flag to me. Surprised it isn't for more people honestly.

Been wanting to do this for a while to kinda break it down...So here's the top 20 hitting prospects according to mlb pipelline. Personally I think it's pretty important to get 1 of these guys for Q...only problem is there just aren't many that are available when you look at it like this. 1-Moncada- Already got him 2-JP Crawford- won't be traded 3-Swanson- won't be traded 4-Benintendi- not trading with the Red Sox again 5-Brendan Rodgers 6-Austin Meadows 7-Victor Robles- Don't see the Nats going for Q 8-Amed Rosario- Don't see the Mets trading for a SP 9-Ozie Albies 10-Lewis Brinson- Brewers aren't buying 11-Clint Frazier 12-Rafael Devers- not trading with the Red Sox again 13-Gleyber Torres 14-Jorge Mateo 15-Willy Adams- Rays aren't buying 16-Josh Bell 17-Ian Happ- Ehh? Thought about bolding him, but don't see a Cubs trade happening 18-Aaron Judge- Will the Yankees even trade him? 19-Eloy Jimenez- see above 20-Mickey Moniak- Phillies aren't buying Would anybody do a Yankees deal without Torres or Frazier? Mateo, Rutherford, Sheffield and Fowler? I know it seems light at 1st glance but that's #18, 51, and 78 + a decent CF prospect in Fowler.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jan 4, 2017 -> 05:18 PM) Assuming you meant to say the SELLER never sets the market. If so, you are totally right. Yeah that's what I meant. I managed to mess up the 1st sentence of the post somehow...

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Jan 4, 2017 -> 03:44 PM) At first glance the trade does look to be a player lite but I think it's because the money it cost to sign Moncada is not factored in. It cost Boston 31.5M to sign Moncada and paid an additional 31.5M in penalties. I think the missing player(s) in the Sale trade is the 31.5M it did not cost the Sox to acquire Moncada. What you and a lot of people aren't getting tho is that the sellers never sets the market value. We as fans and even the front office of the Sox can put whatever value on Sale/Q we want, but if no team meets that price it's just an imaginary value. Value is set by the buying teams. Boston's offer was exactly what Sale's value was...obviously because that's the deal we took making it the best offer on the table. Not to mention saying that the deal was a top 20 prospect "light" is absolutely ridiculous.

QUOTE (Con te Giolito @ Jan 4, 2017 -> 02:05 PM) Nah the Sale deal was a player light. They should've been able to add Devers or EdRo (at least) to the deal they got and probably would have if they were reasonable with Boston at the deadline and not asking for Mookie Betts. Sale's value peaked at the deadline last year and unless he starts doing Kershaw things he'll never fully regain it. Sox, to their credit, didn't waste any time waiting for his value to deteriorate more and dealt him this offseason for probably 80ish% of what they would've gotten at the deadline. I'm not thrilled about it, but I'm not upset either. At least they didn't stubbornly stand firm another year and taken themselves out of the running for a Moncada-like headliner. Are you at least going to claim to have "sources" to support this info? How can you possibly claim to know that the deal was a player short if you have no idea what any other team offered, or what the Sox asked for from Boston? The Sale deal was only light a prospect like Devers to fans on a message board who were unrealistic to begin with.

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Jan 4, 2017 -> 09:55 AM) Recent scouting report? In his early days he was pretty lanky, around 180 lbs. Now he's listed from 210-215 at 21 yrs old and height of 6'4". Probably will fill out even more. And yea he probably will be stepping in for Adrian Gonzalez in a few years.Really good LH power bat . Might be ready as soon as 2018. Look for huge numbers for him this year in AAA. Possible the 1 I read was from a couple years ago...this is from fangraphs just 2 months ago tho... "The offensive bar at first base is high but Bellinger’s power and approach profile there, and he’s an excellent defensive first baseman, garnering several 70 grades from scouts. He’s also seen time in the outfield, including center, and there are scouts who think he could play all three outfield spots in a pinch — though the glove is so good at first base that nobody will actively endorse it. The thought of a bat like this playing center field, even if he’s a 40 there, is enticing, but Bellinger’s leatherwork at first is special and major-league clubs like sound defensive first basemen because they’re constantly handling the ball. I don’t see him moving to the outfield unless it’s necessary to get his bat in the lineup at the big-league level immediately." http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/top-21-pros...ngeles-dodgers/ Maybe CF would be a little out of the question nowadays, but sounds like LF would be more than in play if a team so chose.

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Jan 3, 2017 -> 10:46 PM) I'd rather have him over Josh Bell but I'd hesitate with a 1st baseman as a headliner for Q. Pretty sure the Sox want some outfield prospects. The Dodgers do have some pretty interesting OF prospects in their top 10 ,Yusniel Diaz and Alex Verdugo. There's always Puig and Trayce Thompson to also consider. They also have a catcher Will Smith who has moved ahead of Austin Barnes ( but Barnes is major league ready). At this point Barnes could be a throw in at 27 yrs old already. Pretty sure the Dodgers aren't considering Q but they were a good fit before they resigned Hill. Still might be but again prospect misers . Pretty sure Bellinger could play at least average-above average D in LF. I read a scouting report that said he could probably handle CF at times if really needed. But if he's a GG caliber 1B there's no need to move him. He's not a base clogger and he can save runs on D, I wouldn't worry about position value with a guy like Bellinger...not that I think a deal is likely with Bellinger or the Dodgers.

How can we get fair value if you're admitting Rodon hasn't reached his full potential yet? Unless the Sox have some insight we don't know about any trade of Rodon would selling short on his true potential down the line. I highly doubt the offers for Rodon would come close to the offers for Q either, they aren't exactly interchangeable at the moment. A team isn't going to give what they feel is their best offer for Q, and then say "well how about for Rodon then" after we reject. Highly doubt it would work like that.

So what is everyone's preferred REALISTIC trade offer? I'm going to go with Yankees and Frazier, Kaprielian, Andujuar, + lotto ticket A baller...

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jan 1, 2017 -> 04:25 PM) I want one of the top 2, another one of the 3-5, one of the 5-10, and one of the 10-20. To me, that is a fair framework. Just slightly outside of your parameters but Austin Meadows, Ke'Bryan Hayes, Taylor Hearn, and Barrett Barnes? To me, if the Pirates wouldn't do that I don't think there is a deal to be made. If it's not Meadows then I would take a deal from another team if possible. Bell and Newman are fine prospects in their own right, but we need a better hitting prospect than those 2 back for Q.

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Jan 1, 2017 -> 11:48 AM) Agree with ya about Meadows but disagree on Bell. Hitters like Bell (BA/OBP/Power/Switch hitter )are not a dime a dozen, not to mention how much would a hitter like him cost in FA? I don't get the knock on Bell's defense either since from what I've read he made improvements last year defensively. If Abreu can play a passable 1b I see no reason why Bell couldn't, in time. Eh, it's probably all for naught anyway since it really sounds like Pitt wants to keep both Meadows and Bell for the upcoming season and that makes the trade much more difficult to accomplish. I'm hoping another team such as the Rockies, Yanks or Cubs step up as serious trade partners. I really like the hitting prospects those three teams have. The problem is that Bell's power is pretty mediocre....unless he makes adjustments to his swing he's looking like 15-20 HR's with an SLG% below .450. That doesn't make him a bad player, but when he's limited to 1B/DH I think there are legit questions about what exactly Bell's value should be. I personally wouldn't want him as the top hitting prospect back for Q either.

QUOTE (miracleon35th @ Jan 1, 2017 -> 01:39 AM) The Sox will not trade Quintana without that one headliner - an elite position player prospect. I am among those who think the Sox should wait for the phone to ring now, and not trade Q unless and until they get that player. Frazier is in a different category. The Sox might even consider picking up part of his 2017 Contract if they get prospects in return, and those prospects obviously would not be in that elite category. Therefore, that move would mainly be a salary dump, nothing to get too excited about. It could be argued that the rebuild strategy is now beginning to fizzle a bit and that the Sox might not be able to pull off another trade during the off-season for another elite position player prospect. I fear the worst case scenario - that this rebuild could leave the Sox mired in mediocrity for a longer time than most Sox fans want to endure. The time frame for this rebuild has to be a short one. I already see fans growing impatient, wondering what kind of a team is going to be on the field on Opening Day. Fans might say they are patient for a rebuild, but that patience might evaporate if this team becomes the laughing stock in Chicago while the Cubs keep killing it. Fizzle out?? We're like 3 steps ahead of where we should be right now. Acquiring the #1 hitting and #1 pitching prospect + 3 other top 100's wasn't good enough for you lol? This team has more talent going into year 1 of a rebuild than any other I can think of. Obviously as with any rebuild we need luck on our side, but we really aren't far off at all.

QUOTE (Username @ Dec 31, 2016 -> 02:56 PM) Agreed. I'm honestly shocked they haven't been in much chatter. Both Happ and Eloy Jimenez are effectively blocked for a long time (Zobrist + Baez at 2nd, and Schwarber/Heyward/Almora likely filling at least 2 OF slots). Heck, even Baez doesn't have a full time position right now. And Schwarber probably doesn't have one long-term. Some combination of Happ/Jimenez/Baez/Schwarber makes almost too much sense to not be a real consideration. Cubs are then protected from an Arrieta departure and have insurance for a Lackey decline. Plus Montgomery can then stay in the pen in that valuable swing role. Schwarber isn't going anywhere...the Cubs fanbase is already too attached for them to trade him. Baez? Mehh, doesn't do a whole lot for me. I think an offer would look something like Jimenez, Cease, Candelario + a lotto ticket.