TheFutureIsNear

Been wanting to do this for a while to kinda break it down...So here's the top 20 hitting prospects according to mlb pipelline. Personally I think it's pretty important to get 1 of these guys for Q...only problem is there just aren't many that are available when you look at it like this. 1-Moncada- Already got him 2-JP Crawford- won't be traded 3-Swanson- won't be traded 4-Benintendi- not trading with the Red Sox again 5-Brendan Rodgers 6-Austin Meadows 7-Victor Robles- Don't see the Nats going for Q 8-Amed Rosario- Don't see the Mets trading for a SP 9-Ozie Albies 10-Lewis Brinson- Brewers aren't buying 11-Clint Frazier 12-Rafael Devers- not trading with the Red Sox again 13-Gleyber Torres 14-Jorge Mateo 15-Willy Adams- Rays aren't buying 16-Josh Bell 17-Ian Happ- Ehh? Thought about bolding him, but don't see a Cubs trade happening 18-Aaron Judge- Will the Yankees even trade him? 19-Eloy Jimenez- see above 20-Mickey Moniak- Phillies aren't buying Would anybody do a Yankees deal without Torres or Frazier? Mateo, Rutherford, Sheffield and Fowler? I know it seems light at 1st glance but that's #18, 51, and 78 + a decent CF prospect in Fowler.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jan 4, 2017 -> 05:18 PM) Assuming you meant to say the SELLER never sets the market. If so, you are totally right. Yeah that's what I meant. I managed to mess up the 1st sentence of the post somehow...

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Jan 4, 2017 -> 03:44 PM) At first glance the trade does look to be a player lite but I think it's because the money it cost to sign Moncada is not factored in. It cost Boston 31.5M to sign Moncada and paid an additional 31.5M in penalties. I think the missing player(s) in the Sale trade is the 31.5M it did not cost the Sox to acquire Moncada. What you and a lot of people aren't getting tho is that the sellers never sets the market value. We as fans and even the front office of the Sox can put whatever value on Sale/Q we want, but if no team meets that price it's just an imaginary value. Value is set by the buying teams. Boston's offer was exactly what Sale's value was...obviously because that's the deal we took making it the best offer on the table. Not to mention saying that the deal was a top 20 prospect "light" is absolutely ridiculous.

QUOTE (Con te Giolito @ Jan 4, 2017 -> 02:05 PM) Nah the Sale deal was a player light. They should've been able to add Devers or EdRo (at least) to the deal they got and probably would have if they were reasonable with Boston at the deadline and not asking for Mookie Betts. Sale's value peaked at the deadline last year and unless he starts doing Kershaw things he'll never fully regain it. Sox, to their credit, didn't waste any time waiting for his value to deteriorate more and dealt him this offseason for probably 80ish% of what they would've gotten at the deadline. I'm not thrilled about it, but I'm not upset either. At least they didn't stubbornly stand firm another year and taken themselves out of the running for a Moncada-like headliner. Are you at least going to claim to have "sources" to support this info? How can you possibly claim to know that the deal was a player short if you have no idea what any other team offered, or what the Sox asked for from Boston? The Sale deal was only light a prospect like Devers to fans on a message board who were unrealistic to begin with.

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Jan 4, 2017 -> 09:55 AM) Recent scouting report? In his early days he was pretty lanky, around 180 lbs. Now he's listed from 210-215 at 21 yrs old and height of 6'4". Probably will fill out even more. And yea he probably will be stepping in for Adrian Gonzalez in a few years.Really good LH power bat . Might be ready as soon as 2018. Look for huge numbers for him this year in AAA. Possible the 1 I read was from a couple years ago...this is from fangraphs just 2 months ago tho... "The offensive bar at first base is high but Bellinger’s power and approach profile there, and he’s an excellent defensive first baseman, garnering several 70 grades from scouts. He’s also seen time in the outfield, including center, and there are scouts who think he could play all three outfield spots in a pinch — though the glove is so good at first base that nobody will actively endorse it. The thought of a bat like this playing center field, even if he’s a 40 there, is enticing, but Bellinger’s leatherwork at first is special and major-league clubs like sound defensive first basemen because they’re constantly handling the ball. I don’t see him moving to the outfield unless it’s necessary to get his bat in the lineup at the big-league level immediately." http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/top-21-pros...ngeles-dodgers/ Maybe CF would be a little out of the question nowadays, but sounds like LF would be more than in play if a team so chose.

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Jan 3, 2017 -> 10:46 PM) I'd rather have him over Josh Bell but I'd hesitate with a 1st baseman as a headliner for Q. Pretty sure the Sox want some outfield prospects. The Dodgers do have some pretty interesting OF prospects in their top 10 ,Yusniel Diaz and Alex Verdugo. There's always Puig and Trayce Thompson to also consider. They also have a catcher Will Smith who has moved ahead of Austin Barnes ( but Barnes is major league ready). At this point Barnes could be a throw in at 27 yrs old already. Pretty sure the Dodgers aren't considering Q but they were a good fit before they resigned Hill. Still might be but again prospect misers . Pretty sure Bellinger could play at least average-above average D in LF. I read a scouting report that said he could probably handle CF at times if really needed. But if he's a GG caliber 1B there's no need to move him. He's not a base clogger and he can save runs on D, I wouldn't worry about position value with a guy like Bellinger...not that I think a deal is likely with Bellinger or the Dodgers.

How can we get fair value if you're admitting Rodon hasn't reached his full potential yet? Unless the Sox have some insight we don't know about any trade of Rodon would selling short on his true potential down the line. I highly doubt the offers for Rodon would come close to the offers for Q either, they aren't exactly interchangeable at the moment. A team isn't going to give what they feel is their best offer for Q, and then say "well how about for Rodon then" after we reject. Highly doubt it would work like that.

So what is everyone's preferred REALISTIC trade offer? I'm going to go with Yankees and Frazier, Kaprielian, Andujuar, + lotto ticket A baller...

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jan 1, 2017 -> 04:25 PM) I want one of the top 2, another one of the 3-5, one of the 5-10, and one of the 10-20. To me, that is a fair framework. Just slightly outside of your parameters but Austin Meadows, Ke'Bryan Hayes, Taylor Hearn, and Barrett Barnes? To me, if the Pirates wouldn't do that I don't think there is a deal to be made. If it's not Meadows then I would take a deal from another team if possible. Bell and Newman are fine prospects in their own right, but we need a better hitting prospect than those 2 back for Q.

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Jan 1, 2017 -> 11:48 AM) Agree with ya about Meadows but disagree on Bell. Hitters like Bell (BA/OBP/Power/Switch hitter )are not a dime a dozen, not to mention how much would a hitter like him cost in FA? I don't get the knock on Bell's defense either since from what I've read he made improvements last year defensively. If Abreu can play a passable 1b I see no reason why Bell couldn't, in time. Eh, it's probably all for naught anyway since it really sounds like Pitt wants to keep both Meadows and Bell for the upcoming season and that makes the trade much more difficult to accomplish. I'm hoping another team such as the Rockies, Yanks or Cubs step up as serious trade partners. I really like the hitting prospects those three teams have. The problem is that Bell's power is pretty mediocre....unless he makes adjustments to his swing he's looking like 15-20 HR's with an SLG% below .450. That doesn't make him a bad player, but when he's limited to 1B/DH I think there are legit questions about what exactly Bell's value should be. I personally wouldn't want him as the top hitting prospect back for Q either.

QUOTE (miracleon35th @ Jan 1, 2017 -> 01:39 AM) The Sox will not trade Quintana without that one headliner - an elite position player prospect. I am among those who think the Sox should wait for the phone to ring now, and not trade Q unless and until they get that player. Frazier is in a different category. The Sox might even consider picking up part of his 2017 Contract if they get prospects in return, and those prospects obviously would not be in that elite category. Therefore, that move would mainly be a salary dump, nothing to get too excited about. It could be argued that the rebuild strategy is now beginning to fizzle a bit and that the Sox might not be able to pull off another trade during the off-season for another elite position player prospect. I fear the worst case scenario - that this rebuild could leave the Sox mired in mediocrity for a longer time than most Sox fans want to endure. The time frame for this rebuild has to be a short one. I already see fans growing impatient, wondering what kind of a team is going to be on the field on Opening Day. Fans might say they are patient for a rebuild, but that patience might evaporate if this team becomes the laughing stock in Chicago while the Cubs keep killing it. Fizzle out?? We're like 3 steps ahead of where we should be right now. Acquiring the #1 hitting and #1 pitching prospect + 3 other top 100's wasn't good enough for you lol? This team has more talent going into year 1 of a rebuild than any other I can think of. Obviously as with any rebuild we need luck on our side, but we really aren't far off at all.

QUOTE (Username @ Dec 31, 2016 -> 02:56 PM) Agreed. I'm honestly shocked they haven't been in much chatter. Both Happ and Eloy Jimenez are effectively blocked for a long time (Zobrist + Baez at 2nd, and Schwarber/Heyward/Almora likely filling at least 2 OF slots). Heck, even Baez doesn't have a full time position right now. And Schwarber probably doesn't have one long-term. Some combination of Happ/Jimenez/Baez/Schwarber makes almost too much sense to not be a real consideration. Cubs are then protected from an Arrieta departure and have insurance for a Lackey decline. Plus Montgomery can then stay in the pen in that valuable swing role. Schwarber isn't going anywhere...the Cubs fanbase is already too attached for them to trade him. Baez? Mehh, doesn't do a whole lot for me. I think an offer would look something like Jimenez, Cease, Candelario + a lotto ticket.

QUOTE (Con te Giolito @ Dec 31, 2016 -> 01:36 PM) Eh, I think its distinctly possible that one of Bell or Meadows is firmly on the table and the issue holding things up is Glasnow. I'm not sure the Pirates or White Sox really want him, so the Pirates are attempting to cash-in his value now while they can in pursuit of Quintana while the White Sox are either refusing Glasnow or trying to pawn him off on a third team (HELLO YANKEES, a team that on paper could really use a top farm arm). Unless he's injured I seriously doubt Glasnow's stock is that down. I think you're way overreacting to a small sample size when he was getting his 1st taste of big league action and most innings pitched in a year at the same time. And even with his struggles and "down" stuff he still K'd a batter per inning. A team wanting nothing to do with Tyler Glasnow is actually a pretty ridiculous notion. Not to mention the Yankees have plenty of arms in their system already...Sheffield, Acevedo, Kaprelian, Adams, Tate, and Abreu is actually pretty impressive, not many teams with 6 arms like that and at least 4 of them will probably be in AA next year.

Not going to pretend to know a ton about their system, but the Giants system doesn't look to be a great matchup for us. A few good prospects at the top that they probably wouldn't give up and then a bunch of 23-26 year olds with limited ceilings after that. Of course Frazier/Melky would get us a pretty limited return so maybe it wouldn't be too hard to figure a trade out.

I think it would realistically be something more like... Frazier, Sheffield, Andujar, and some random prospect not in their top 30... I'd be all for that deal and would even consider Accevedo(depending on his health) if Sheffield was a hold up. Accevedo at 6'7 with a fastball that sits around 96/97 and touches 102 as a starter with a good change up is extremely intriguing to me.

For me... Logan Morrison Cody Asche Desmond Jennings Colby Rasmus Michael Saunders Peter Bourjos Rubby de la Rosa Vance Worley Jon Niese Tommy Hunter Shawn Tolleson Drew Storen Aaron Barrett If I'm being realistic I'd say... 1 of Worley or de la Rosa 1 of Tolleson or Storen 1 of Jennings or Asche

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Dec 30, 2016 -> 07:21 PM) 1B- Adam LaRoche 2B- Wilson Betemit SS- Alex Cintron 3B- Josh Fields OF- Joey Belle OF- George Bell OF- Carl Everette DH- Joe Borchard Bench- Lyle Mouton, Drake LaRoche , Leury Garcia , Oney Guillen SP- Jaime Navarro SP- Todd Ritchie SP- Erik Johnson SP- Aaron Poreda SP- Arnie Munoz Closer- don't need one with that lineup and rotation. Skipper: Terry Bevington Your list made me involuntary scream out curse words. Appreciate it.

C- AJ P 1B- PK 2B- Ray Durham SS- Uribe 3B- Robin LF- Scotty Pods CF- Lance Johnson RF- Mags DH- Frank 4th OF- Wise UTL- Iguchi Pinch Hitter- Jose Valentin SP- Black Jack SP- Buehrle SP- Rodon SP- Loaiza SP- Garland Closer- Bobby Jenks Set UP- Nate Jones LH Setup- Marte 7th- Foulke 7th LH- Cotts

Me spit balling trades out of boredom at work...But the Yankees 3 way trade actually did make a lot of sense, just maybe would work with a different team. I really don't think the Rockies have a clue what they are doing so they are a bad trade partner in general. I really think Gardner or Chase Headley being dealt in the 3 way trade could be the key. If the Yankees could get a team to give them 2 pretty good prospects in return for Gardner/Headley and then flip them to us it would things a lot easier in my opinion. The Giants make a lot of sense for Gardner, I just don't know a whole lot about their system. Looks kinda crappy from the surface though... Yankees Get: Q ? Team Gets: Brett Gardner or Chase Headley White Sox Get: Clint Frazier, Miguel Andujuar, Domingo Acevedo + 2 B level prospects from ? team I see that as working out for everyone... Yankees get Q without gutting their system + lose a contract they don't want/need. ? Team gets an above average starting player We get top hitting prospect Frazier with a lot of depth behind him.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Dec 29, 2016 -> 01:11 AM) Does anyone want to put statistical odds on Coats, Liriano, Engel or Jacob May being on a major league roster at the start of the 2020 season? The main benefit of them playing is the POSSIBILITY that just one of them is a 4th outfielder on a good team, like Saladino being a supersub/utility guy on a playoff-caliber squad. I'd take driving down the White Sox record into the 60's win total from the low 70's if it means not having to watch Avi Garcia for another full season. That said, the odds seem HIGH that they would continue with Garcia for more than 2-3 months if he's still in that 675-725 OPS range (due to his obvious defensive limitations). At that time (late June/July), you'd have playing time to give to the guys previously mentioned, as well as Davidson and anyone acquired via trade for some of our other veterans. Engel I think has a shot to be on a roster as a 4th OF'er...fast bench guy with defense and some pop. Drew Stubbs type career maybe? Liriano I suppose has always had the talent to be a regular, just hasn't put it together yet. Not great odds of making it, but there is hope. No better time than after a change of scenery to a rebuilding team to give him 500 AB's and see what happens in my opinion. Coats and May? Very little chance of being on a roster in 2020.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Dec 28, 2016 -> 11:31 PM) I'm not arguing what Todd Frazier would be worth in this market, I'm arguing what he'd be worth during the 2017 season for a team that acquires him. Turner is coming off a career year, while Frazier is coming off a dissapointing one. There's no doubt that Turner would get more in this market. Having said that, it's quite apparent that teams didn't view Turner as a 5+ WAR player (which they shouldn't), but that he also took a sizable hometown discount. His $16M AAV does reflect his true market value IMO. What's interesting though is that Frazier was the superior player in 2014 & 2015. With a strong rebound in 2017 Frazier could easily eclipse Turner's contract next offseason, especially when you consider he won't cost a team their 1st round pick. Again, I think some posters here are seriously undervaluing Frazier because of his poor 2016 season. I fully expect a 3+ WAR season out of him next year and that should be very valuable come the deadline no matter what market rate you place on WAR. Frazier has had almost 1,000 straight PA's of hitting under .230 with a OBP under .310...and you're pretty confident he's suddenly going to turn that around? I'm sure not. He's going to have to make drastic changes at the plate because his entire approach is pretty awful honestly. It boggles my mind that a professional hitter thinks its a good idea to go up to the plate and try to hook every single pitch he sees to the left. And no, there's no market for Frazier. Until he proves he's something other than a HR or nothing guy I really don't see any teams lining up for his services.

I'd say... Q Abreu (maybe he's not an elite bat, but he's still dirt cheap for his production and under control) Jones Robertson Gonzalez (it will take a desperate team close to or in ST but it's not like last year was his 1st taste of success and he's dirt cheap and under control) Jennings (I don't think any GM is fooled into thinking he's anything more than a 2nd lefty) Frazier Melky I think both Frazier and Melky are deadline deals. I really don't think any team is lining up for either right now given the free agents still available.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 28, 2016 -> 08:05 PM) That's not what I said. I said Avi has as good of a chance of being a decent hitter as Alvarez does of being worth something at the deadline. If Pedro Alvarez remains who he was last year - an .800 OPS because he is strong against righties and a .670 OPS hitter against lefties - a platoon DH who is a crappy fielder and only puts up an .825 OPS because he is playing 90% of his time against righties and is still owed a couple million dollars isn't worth jack squat at the deadline. For him to be worth something at the deadline, he'd need to have a good year against lefties, a better year defensively, or put up a 1.000+ OPS against righties. All of those are possible but unlikely. I think you're overthinking it, teams trade for platoon guys and bench pieces at the deadline all the time. I'm not saying we could trade Alvarez for much, but if a team needs a power surge at the deadline we could get a couple of prospects for him if he's still hitting righties well and carrying the same .800 OPS. Even if we could get just a young UTL bench guy or a good bullpen arm under control for 6 years for him I'd consider it a win. Guys like Chris Coghlan, Aaron Hill, Brandon Guyer, Melvin Upton, and Kelly Johnson all got traded for something at the deadline this past year. I'd take the odds that Alvarez could be traded for an interesting bullpen arm and a loto ticket 19 year old then Avi putting up a .750+ OPS. I just think little moves like this type and always churning the roster are necessary in a full rebuild. No need to keep watching the same guys fail, throw as many pieces at the wall as possible and see what sticks.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 28, 2016 -> 07:35 PM) I have no issue with Avi getting a good portion of the season this year - he's cheaper than these guys and probably has just as much of a chance at becoming a decent hitter as Pedro Alvarez does of becoming worth something at the deadline. Lawrie's problem is he only has 1 year of control, which means even if he got off to a great start he'd be nothing but a quick, cheap deadline deal. Saladino I have no idea what he will be long term and I want him playing every day. If he's an average MLB player (2 WAR, strong defense, weak to average bat) that's a useful find and I would be content with him playing 3b for a couple years until we find something better. Lol what world do you live in? Avi can't put up a .700 OPS and he has just as good of a chance to be as good as a guy who just put up an OPS over .800? Don't get me wrong, I'm well aware Alvarez is pretty crappy, but Avi doesn't even belong in the majors. Sorry, but 1,500 AB's is more than enough time to prove your worth. And Avi has proven nothing more than worthless.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 28, 2016 -> 07:18 PM) I would consider going after 2 guys on that list (add Carter as well). Rasmus and Alvarez or Rasmus and Carter should be fits for this team once all is done. Valbuena would only make sense if they moved Lawrie or if in fact Saladino's back issues really were thought to be significant. I can't buy that Michael Saunders won't find a role somewhere before the end of Jan. If it were up to me guys like Lawrie and Avi wouldn't be on the team and we'd take a shot on guys who have the potential to have real value...but that's obviously not going to happen unfortunately. And let's not forget that Abreu can always DH more with plenty of AB's between 1B and the rest of the IF positions. Not like Lawrie and Saladino are the type of guys that need to be played everyday, we kinda know what they are already. But yeah I agree, Saunders will most likely find a multi year deal somewhere better than with us next year.