TheFutureIsNear

I"ll say something like 100 IP with a 5+ ERA before he is DFA'd effectively ending his career. Seems like a nice guy and he was once very good, but unless some miracle happens I can't see him bouncing back. He was throwing BP fastballs up there last year.

I live in the Philly market so I've had the misfortune of watching a good amount of Howard's AB's the past few years....there's nothing left. He might have the worst pitch recognition of anyone I've ever seen. 3 breaking balls in the dirt and the AB is over most of the time. Combine that with Father Time catching up to his bat speed and really honestly can't see him having kind of sustained success in the big league anymore. I get the idea, but I think Howard's time is up. Take that gamble on someone who actually has a shot

Anybody who was worried about Abreu's contract doesn't really understand arbitration. The amount of $ he will make over what his contract called for will be pretty minimal even if he gets through arb. the next 2 years without being traded or extended.

We saw how well a hot start worked out for us this past year.... The rebuild has started and there's no going back. Best to just accept it.

QUOTE (steveno89 @ Dec 16, 2016 -> 06:14 PM) Pittsburgh could be a sleeper team, or the Yankees Mets could gut their system with a: Rosario, Smith, Dunn and Nimmo package? Toronto could totally gut their system? Rockies? Astros? Do the Mets really need pitching? Can't see them gutting their system for a #3 (possibly 4 depending on health of Harvey) starter. And Q certainly isn't expensive, but there are a lot of reports saying the Mets already have to shed salary before the season as is. Toronto doesn't have a prospect inside the top 70 so I would go ahead and rule them out. The market is seriously thin on Q as unbelievable as it is. It only takes 1 other team to make a serious offer to pressure the Astros though. Rockies, Braves, Cardinals, Rangers, Yankees...I can't see many other logical fits, hopefully someone steps up with a real offer soon.

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Dec 16, 2016 -> 09:10 AM) This is what Keith Law said: Nick: If you were Lunhow, would you trade Musgrove + Martes + Tucker for Quintana, and why or why not? I go back and forth as an Astros fan but think I’d be happy with him pulling the trigger. Klaw: If I’m Luhnow I do it. If I’m Hahn I’m not even countering because it’s so low. FWIW, I don’t know that that was ever discussed by the clubs. Hmm...interesting. I guess he's using the Sale deal as a template and because there's no marquee name like Moncada coming back it's not close? I mean, if he doesn't think that deal is even remotely close then he must think a deal is impossible with the Astros unless Bregman is involved. I get that point of view, but the demand for Q just doesn't seem high enough right now honestly. I think we were only able to leverage Moncada from Boston because Washington was so heavily involved. As of right now the media haven't reported of a serious 2nd bidder....of course that doesn't mean there isn't 1.

Marlins also have an interesting C prospect they got this past trade dead line too named Tomas Telis. 25 year old switch hitter that is a proven productive hitter in the upper minors and scouting reports seem to call his D decent to above average. I'd do a Jarlin Garcia and Telis deal for Robertson. Another thing to think about with trading/not trading Robertson.. If we do trade him Jones steps right into the closer role and if he succeeds for the 1st 1/2 of the season in that role he would have a TON of value at the deadline. Just something to think about...a lot of pros and cons to consider for Hahn and crew

QUOTE (reiks12 @ Dec 15, 2016 -> 12:21 PM) Or just have a 3 team trade. Who would be an odeal trade partner for Colorado and us? Who is in desperate need of a cf? Think I already saw a Blackmon for Stroman deal earlier in the off season I believe? Blue Jays just don't have a ton of prospects though and there's no way the Rockies are trading Blackmon AND Rodgers + to get Q. It's really a tough situation with Q somehow. I think we are really honestly are just waiting for the Astros to crack and that's about it. Hopefully they are fishing around the league for SP and realize the Tucker/Martes/Musgrove or Reed package is actually pretty reasonable.

QUOTE (bmags @ Dec 15, 2016 -> 09:34 AM) I could very much see cardinals in this mix just they have fewer bullets. Would need Reyes. Their fans are also obsessed with Kelten Wong as a trade piece but he's of little value to me. Though I do think he is a good bounceback candidate elsewhere. Possible, but hard to see them giving up Reyes honestly. And even then they really don't have a whole lot of position player prospects. Bader, Perez, and Carson Kelly are about all they have that I'm aware of. Bader is about as unspectacular as they come as far as tools, and Perez is very far away. Kelly we should be interested in though. 0 interest in Wong. Maybe if they included Grichuk? Not sure of his service time though, 4 years left of control I believe?

QUOTE (steveno89 @ Dec 15, 2016 -> 09:13 AM) The list of suitors will go beyond the Astros. Quintana's cheap contract fits into nearly every mlb club's budget. It would be a mistake for other GM's to not speak to the Sox about him Who are the other teams though? Serious question. How many playoff contenders need pitching and have a top 25 (or close to it) prospect they are willing to give up? It's gotta be a very short list. Yankees, Rockies...they are the only 2 serious contenders I see. Pirates have a need for pitching and the prospects, but the odds of them trading 3-4 or good prospects for 1 guy seems very low to me. Cards, Indians, Rangers, Red Sox, Giants, Orioles, Mets, Nats, Cubs, Dodgers....all playoff contenders that aren't going to be trading for Q in my eyes.

Losses are great....as long as there is visible progress. The best thing to do during a rebuild is probably to tune out the team as a whole and concentrate on individuals. If we lose 105 games but Rodon looks like a constant TOR guy, Anderson shows improved plate discipline, and the prospects that come up as the season goes along look promising I'll be happy. It all has to be for the bigger picture...progress is key. Oh, and minor league box scores...they will be a must check every night this year.

QUOTE (steveno89 @ Dec 14, 2016 -> 10:59 AM) Not very many decent options out there for reclamation Tyson Ross likely wants to go to a contender Doug Fister possibly to eat innings? Holland could rebuild some value with a solid season? Yeah I didn't really put much thought into it, was just more stating that I don't think much of Holland at this point. Seems like a very similar situation to Danks, the shoulder just isn't the same and he can't get by with an 88/89 mph fastball. Now that I'm looking at the list though, you're right, there really isn't much else. Aside from Ross or Fister I'd be fairly interested to see if Coop could turn Jhoulys Chacin into anything. He's always had a fairly intriguing arm and is still somehow under 30. Do Kris Medlen or Brett Anderson still have arms attached and are they capable of pitching anymore lol? Seems like the answer is no, but they are about the only other names out there that are even a little interesting

I tend to think he's toast, but worth a shot I suppose. His average fastball velocity went from 93/94 to 90 over the past 3 or 4 seasons so Coop is really gonna teach him how to pitch or it's going to more of the same. Again, worth a shot, just not the reclamation project I personally would have chosen.

QUOTE (Jerksticks @ Dec 14, 2016 -> 01:36 AM) Exactly. And i think you two are hitting on a key point- our outfield prospects, outside of our pitching prospects, represents the true depth of our system. While the names aren't sexy first rounders for the most part, there are a ton of sleeper potential Allstars in our system. Tilson, Engel, Call, Basabe & Fisher are worthy of excitement. Each has some super plus tools that with a lil luck the Sox hit a homerun. The next tier has more limited potential but you never know: Avi, Coats, Hawkins, May. That's why I think it's Bregman or bust with Houston. Bregman, TA, Moncada & Abreu is pure beast. 3 MVP candidates maybe. Elite Catcher or 3B for Q. No more outfielders. No Tucker #f***Tuck Lol we are set with OF prospects?? What the hell are you smoking and where do I get it? Aside from Basabe (who is a mere projection at this point), every organization has the type of prospects like Tilson, Engel, and Call/Fisher. If we manage to get a 4th OF'er and a platoon player out of those 4 we should be happy if you're being realistic about it. How about just get as much talent as possible? And Tucker just so happens to be really talented.

Saw on mlbtraderumors that the Mariners are looking for pitching. Didn't really mention any thing specific and not sure if they are willing to give up what it takes to get Q though. They do have some very interesting OF prospects tho...Kyle Lewis who went #11 overall in this past draft and Tyler O'neill who hit a coll .293/.374/.508 with 24 HR's as a 20/21 year old in AA. Like I said, no idea if a deal is even possible/realistic but this thread could use some new hope of a deal lol.

It's a good idea in theory, just not sure how realistic it is that it will actually happen. You see it a lot in the NBA, but maybe the stricter luxury tax rules will make it more common in baseball though. I could see something where we get 1 of these overpriced guys back + prospect in exchange for Robertson. Of course we should receive a little extra bump in the prospect package in return for taking on their trash. That way the Dodgers are at least breaking even payroll wise. Robertson for McCarthy, Calhoun, and Sheffield. Or something along those lines.

Q to Houston for Tucker, Reed, Paulino and Teoscar Hernandez Frazier to Dodgers for Brock Stewart and Yusniel Diaz Robertson to Pirates for Yeudy Garcia and Kevin Kramer

The more I look the more I want a deal to go down with Colorado. And they have more than enough depth to pull it off too, a lot of high picks and talent in their organization. Brendan Rodgers, Raimel Tapia, David Dahl, Riley Pint, Tom Murphy, Ryan McMahon, Kyle Freeland, Jordan Patterson, Garrett Hampson, Brian Mundell, Sam Hilliard, Ryan Castellani....a really good package of players could come out of that group. My only concern is if Rodgers is involved the deal would most likely be Rodgers, Pint, and 2 low level guys. That would be right in line with what we got for Sale, just not quite as good. And don't get me wrong, I'd be very happy with Rodgers but a depth package from Colorado where Roders isn't involved would also really entice me. Probably crazy and far fetched, but how insane wold Frazier be in Coors? Could be an interesting 1b option for them, I could see him hitting 50 in Coors no problem and the Rockies shattering the record for most HR's in a season. Frazier and Q for Rodgers, Pint, Tapia, McMahon, and Yency Almonte

There's definitely legitimate reason not to be too optimistic about Anderson. But as others have said he's still very young and raw into his baseball career. And there were at least small signs of life at the end of last year as well. I'm not sure he'll be an all-star type player or even top of the order hitter, but that doesn't mean he still be a very useful player. My comp for a while had been Erick Aybar with a little more pop.

Glasnow and Meadows is more than enough to start the package for me. Adding Bell just seems unrealistic. But still, without Bell the Pirates would still have more than enough. Just a matter of whether they choose trade 2 premium prospects or not, I'm not optimistic about that. Glasnow, Meadows, Elias Diaz, and Kevin Kramer. Or something along those lines seems not too far off from the Sale deal.

QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Dec 9, 2016 -> 03:00 PM) Where are they going to play Bregman, especially if they bring in EE? C - Stassi/McCann 1B - EE/McCann 2B - Altuve SS - Correa 3B - Gurriel LF - Beltran/Aoki CF - Springer/Marisnik RF - Reddick DH - Gattis/EE/Beltran I get them wanting to hold on to him, but I am not sure where he is making an impact in that lineup. I am not a fan of getting Bregman, I feel he is being immensely overvalued for a SSS of production, I felt the same way about Turner. I would rather have quantity of quality rather than value wrapped up into fewer players. C- Mcann/Gattis 1b- Gurriel/McCann 2b- Altuve ss- Correa 3b- Bregman/Gurriel LF- Aoki/Gurriel/Gattis CF- Springer RF- Reddick DH- Beltran/Gattis I think that's a lot more realistic. Doubt Stassi is in their lineup much/even on their 25 and Beltran is far from an everyday LF at this point in his career. Not sure about their chances of getting Encarnacion, but everything I'm reading is saying its far from assumed. Gattis and Aoki are going to be the low men on the totem pole....they will be able to find plenty of AB's for both Bregman and Gurriel between 1B/3B/and LF. So basically everyone just needs to forget about Bregman. Aint happening.

QUOTE (steveno89 @ Dec 9, 2016 -> 12:54 PM) Why should the White Sox settle for less? They don't have to trade Quintana unless they are getting outstanding value for him The drop off from Tucker to Cameron is significant. Heck the drop off from Tucker to Fisher is significant as well. Why are you assuming that all 3 were ever in a deal though? We aren't going to get all 3 of Martes, Reed, and Tucker. The deal would have been made already. Given all of the pitching we've already received I'd be just fine with starting the deal at Tucker and Reed. The 3rd prospect would have to be pretty good though given neither Tucker or Reed are great headliners. David Paulino is a name that still seems expendable to them and would just be fun to add another power arm to the stable. Maybe not "95%", but I think Tucker, Reed, and Paulino isn't too far off from Moncada, Kopech, and Basabe. Obviously trying to recreate a headliner like Moncada is impossible and everything else will seem to fall short, but I really like Tucker. I think in 3-4 years he could be hitting .300 /.350/.450 with 15-20 hr's and 25-30 steals. His glove and athleticism are both good and as of right now he's still being projected in CF. Kyle Tucker, AJ Reed, David Paulino and Gilberto Celestino. I'd take that for Q. I know Reed isn't on many lists anymore but or all intents and purposes that's 3 top 75 prospects and a recent fairly large international signing.

You're kidding yourself if you think there's any correlation at all to this rebuild and the '18 free agent class. Those guys are probably going to be getting $300M+ easy. Never going to happen for this team. And the perfect time for a rebuild was probably 3-4 years ago before we traded prospects and wasted $ on crappy old FA's only to still suck. But hey, better late than never right? At least they seem to be doing it the right way too instead of a 1/2 assed retool like I was afraid of.

My only fear is that Robertson has a pretty good chance of pitching poorly the 1st 1/2 of the season...in my opinion of course. IDK, that cutter just didn't seem like the usual dominating pitch it can be last year. Who knows, maybe his knee really was bothering him all year and he couldn't use his lower body as much as he wanted. Very possible, but I think there's definitely a risk vs reward that needs to weighed for keeping him until the deadline. Depends what his value is I guess, if other teams are treating him like a salary dump and not offering anything useful you roll the dice and let him pitch until the deadline and hope he proves his worth. BUT if someone offered me a decent package (prospect in the top 100 or at least close + a low level loto ticket) and we were off the hook for all $25M I'd have to strongly consider it.

Anybody think we would kick $ in to move a Robertson trade along? I know JR doesn't typically do that, but I think it would probably drum up more interest. I know his contract isn't a killer compared to what the open market is right now, but it definitely does come with risk given that he hasn't exactly been great. I just feel like a team would be more willing to give up something decent if they were getting Robertson at say 2/$18M