footlongcomiskeydog

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ May 31, 2017 -> 09:52 AM) The thing that sucks the most of this is fans of other teams that said he isn't good or not an ace or worth a Sale-like haul all probably act like they were correct all along. Q was never going to get a Sale like haul. It was that line of thinking that has put the Sox in the position they are now in with Q. Sale was a Mercedes and Q is more like a Suburu. Things change fast in baseball. Before the season people would have thought the Sox got fleeced if they had traded Q to the Yanks for a package centered around Judge. Now the Yanks would laugh at an offer of Q straight up for Judge. Same thing with that Tucker kid from Houston. His stock is rising while Q's is on a freefall.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ May 31, 2017 -> 12:12 AM) Simple, they're going to have to trade Robertson, Swarzak, Holland, Frazier, Cabrera and Nate Jones (if healthy). Rule 5 Draft again Free agents, probably not this offseason, but after 2018...depending upon where the rebuild is. There's always the possibility of a Japanese/Korean player as well. Finally, they're getting positive contributions out of Avi Garcia, Davidson, Leury Garcia and Yolmer Sanchez. Before the season began, Saladino was the ONLY one of those five who looked like he could be a part of the future. You also have Nicky Delmonico, Engel, Danny Hayes, Willy Garcia, Liriano...the "net positive" of all the players listed in this paragraph is pretty high, based on preseason expectations. But yeah, Collins and Moncada both have to be studs. Robert needs to be a 3+ WAR guy. You forgot Basabe at Winston-Salem...Call and Fisher, as well. And you're leaving out the 1st/2nd/3rd round draft picks in 2017/18/19. Finally, you have a Top 3 organization in MILB...some of that pitching can potentially be a valuable trade piece for the Sox. Robertson is the only guy listed who has a chance to bring back a top 100 prospect. The rest of those guys have little to no trade value. The rule 5 draft has like a 1 in a hundred chance of producing anyone worthwhile. The Sox blew their international load on Robert so I'm not sure I would be counting on the Asian market at this time. Let's hope Avi can stick and continues to hit. Sanchez and Leury are nice utility players but probably not starters on a real contender. All those other players are most likely career AAAA players. Basabe is barely hitting his weight at A ball. Same for Call. Fisher is looking good, however. The Sox need to hit on their early round picks the next few years most defintely. I'm not seeing a top 3 MILB organization once Moncada is in the bigs. Q pooping the bed so far this year is gonna delay the rebuild big time. No doubt about it.

The Sox have 3 legit position player prospects right now (Moncada, Robert, Collins). I'm pretty sure that Hahn and company were planning to flip Q and add a couple more top 100 prospects to that list. Not trading Q this year is a giant step backwards in the rebuild in my opinion. How are the Sox gonna build up the farm if they don't trade one of their most valuable chips?

QUOTE (daggins @ May 30, 2017 -> 10:55 PM) FYI, some Fangraphs bros chattin' bout Q 9:42 Phil Sheridan: Is Quintana hurt? How do you explain this season for him? 9:43 Paul Swydan: He’s had a few bad starts, and a bunch of good ones. I think he’s probably fine. 9:43 Jeff Zimmerman: Everything seems inline but his ERA. 9:43 Rick Hahn: Q got tattooed again tonight. Does this totally crush his mid-year trade value? 9:44 Paul Swydan: If teams are scared off because Deven Marrero lucked into a couple of homers against them, they probably need new talent evaluators. 9:44 Jeff Zimmerman: No, but he wasn’t going to bring back too much talent anyway I'm guessing when JZ says 'too much talent' he means a Chris Sale return. If he falls back into line, he could still get a Cole Hamels return, which would be ok. Q was never going to bring a Chris Sale return. Q's value was at its all time high this offseason. Hahn took a gamble that everything would line up for a nice return in July. So far that gamble is looking like a giant fail.

How are the Sox gonna move along the rebuild if they don't move Q? Also, the Sox will most likely be pretty terrible over the remainder of Q's contract. Keeping him here during the rebuild doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

Are we 100% sure that the instagram photo of him in the Sox hat is legit? It is an absolutely great sign if on the level and hopefully confirms the Passan report that he has already decided on a team.

QUOTE (ventura_abreu @ May 20, 2017 -> 11:28 AM) I'm sure that Roberts is part A; however, given the money that will be spent and the 2 years of being in the penalty box, that ends up being a heavy price. Plan B would work out fine too. What exactly is plan b though? Who else is out there that is at the level of Robert besides Otani?

Moncada got 31.5. Robert will get around 27.5 and sign with St. Louis. Sox set budget for Robert at 25 million and were not comfortable going over that.

QUOTE (bmags @ May 20, 2017 -> 10:50 AM) IMO Hahn stirred the coals a lot on fans excitement for Robert. Should be mentioned that a plan B for Robert is another marginal intl free agent class, which was only acceptable with Robert. If we lose out, it's a big tactical mistake to me. How many trade targets for Sale and Q were intl signings? A ton. Gleybar, Robles, Meitan, Soto, Acuna. We are trading top ML talent and trying to make it up by acquiring guys we could have had for a few million if we just had a good intl free agent strategy. But we don't. Bingo. The Sox are gonna come away with a whole lot of nothing in the intl free agent class if they miss out on Robert. They will have to scramble to sign some marginal guys and will appear desperate. Teams that ignore the intl market or completely bungle it year after year have no realistic chance of building a legit contender.

Any ideas on Plan B for the Sox if they can't land Robert? They appear to have all their eggs in his basket so I'm not exactly sure how they pivot if they are outbid.

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ May 18, 2017 -> 03:25 PM) Unless the Rays decide to make Colome available. He's been pretty good. Colome is a stud. I'm sure he is the guy that Rizzo is after. Herrera from KC is probably option #2 on their list with Robertson coming in as #3. The Nats will take their time on this since the NL East is so bad. That just leaves more time for Robertson to decrease his value by pitching poorly and/or get hurt like Jones, Putnam, Petrickia, etc.

QUOTE (Joshua Strong @ May 18, 2017 -> 02:20 PM) Let's say Robertson is performing well... when looking at what some teams have paid to get closers at the deadline for playoff runs, is Robles really too much to ask? There is no way in hell that Robertson brings back Robles. Rizzo would hang up the phone on that ask and instruct Hahn to call back when he is serious. Robertson is severely overvalued around these parts. He is not that good and won't bring back much at all.

QUOTE (Fantl916 @ Jan 27, 2017 -> 04:30 PM) guys, nobody should be surprised by law's omissions of fulmer, lopez. he's always done this, omitting pitchers he doesn't think can start long term. he's a huge proponent of advanced statistics, especially WAR, and to him a #3/4 SP is more valuable than an elite closer because they have more impact on WAR. in a way, i agree with him. we're about to witness a 2017 season where the yankees have an elite bullpen but their terrible sp will ensure they suck. whereas if you flipped that to a solid staff and iffy bullpen you could be a playoff team (ie dodgers of previous years). i really do hope lopez proves him wrong, and i think he's in no better organization for that based on what cooper did w sale (who law admits he also applied the reliever tag to). but to defend keith's thought process, you all will be disappointed if lopex and fulmer end up in the bullpen. if they do there's no doubt they'll be hi leverage rps, but you'll still wish they wouldve made it as sps. in the end, he doesnt hate the sox, or any other team for that matter so saying such it wacky. he gave favorite reviews of collins and kopech, still thinks very highly of giolito and was slightly below others but still very high on moncada. he hates relievers, that's not new I'm not just talking about Law here. ZIPS doesn't have him in the top 100 either. I'm not sure anyone has him ranked in the top 100 anywhere. That is not good and you really can't sugarcoat it. Dude is not even looking like the best Vandy pitcher of that draft class. Did we ever get an explanation as to why he was rushed up to the bigs last year? That was another terrible decision by this organization. 2016 seemed to be full of bad decisions unfortunately.

QUOTE (bighurt574 @ Jan 27, 2017 -> 02:59 PM) And when the guy picked one spot ahead of him is #1 in the rankings. Better than one spot behind, I suppose. It seems like all the major pundits do not see a future for Fulmer as a starter. The Sox will most likely start with him in the rotation at AAA this year, but I highly doubt he sticks as a starter. I have no idea why he was rushed up last year. He looked totally lost on the mound. I hope I'm wrong but he is looking more and more like another first round pick that the Sox would take back in a heartbeat if they could.

QUOTE (Sox-35th @ Jan 27, 2017 -> 02:42 PM) Top 100 doesn't matter unless we never see Fulmer again. I guess so. He is definitely trending in the wrong direction. It is not a good thing when a top 10 draft pick from 2 years ago goes spiraling down the rankings.

I don't see Carson Fulmer in the top 100 anywhere. The Sox may have royally screwed him up by rushing him to the Show last year.

QUOTE (ChiSoxFanMike @ Jan 26, 2017 -> 12:21 PM) That's exactly what I said. Let Robertson rebuild his value so he can be maximized at the deadline. Jones' value certainly isn't low right now and I worry that ineffectiveness/injury next season could hurt his market. I'd trade him now if at all possible, though the deadline seems more realistic. Holding onto Robertson is a logical move. Holding onto Jones is playing with fire in my opinion. Jones needs to be traded this off-season. The Mets need relief pitching and have a pretty decent farm. Get something done, Mr. Hahn.

QUOTE (raBBit @ Jan 26, 2017 -> 11:49 AM) Let's stick to the topic instead of going at individual posters guys. I think there's a good debate here. There's credence to the idea that idea that Robertson could never be the same pitcher that got him the contract he has with the Sox and there's even more credence that he rebounds. He didn't lose his velocity last year. He had some outings where everything went wrong. He had some stretches where he didn't have his fastball command in any way. That's the nature of the spontaneous task of relief pitching. When you lack the movement desired on your fastball and you can't locate it you're going to get hit it a bit and have some outings that really mess up your numbers. One thing is clear to me - he is at the lowest value point of his career right now. If his value is even positive (given contract), he's not going to get the White Sox a return of anything to get excited about. Hold this guy. The teams that are looking at their bullpen and listing seven guys and saying "We're set" are going to have a couple injuries. Every team is at basically full strength right now. If Robertson starts his season like he did 2015 he's going to be a commodity in July. He won't be a rental, he'll be ~25% cheaper than he is now and he would have a track record that could give opposing executives a bit more confidence. If you keep and he sucks, you lose a C type prospect. If you hold him and he bounces back, you could pick up a piece or two that could really benefit the organization for years to come. There's no more obvious hold on the team than Robertson. This post sums up the Robertson situation very nicely. Value at an all time low right now so you hold and hope for a bounce-back first half. I'm not sure why Jones hasn't been moved yet though. His value is most likely at its peak right now. With his injury history, a couple of trips to the DL in the first half and his value is totally tanked. Also, there will be a lot more reliever supply available at the trade deadline. He serves no purpose on a truly rebuilding team.

The OP must have been hitting the Jack or Tito hard. That was one hell of a crazy post. I'm not sold that the Sox front office is completely on board with tearing this thing down to the studs. The "bad apples" are gone and that is it so far. KW and Jerry are still running the show and rebuild is not in their vocabulary. They are a lot of desperate mediocre veterans still looking for a contract and time is running out. It wouldn't surprise me one bit if the following signings are announced at SoxFest and/or sometime in early February. Kurt Suzuki - 1 year contract-5.5 million ( Will platoon with either Soto/Navarez) Dude is a sox killer and rakes at Sox Park. Has bad defensive metrics but the Sox front office doesn't seem to care much about that if last years catcher signings were any indication. Ryan Howard- 1 year -6 million base with incentives that could push it over 10 million. (will primarily DH and Spell Abreu at first) Total Kenny signing here. He tried to catch lighting in a bottle last year with Rollins why not try again with Howard? Angel Pagan-1 year 8 million- (will start in Center) It doesn't sound like Tilson is gonna be ready for opening day and may never be the same player after that gruesome hamstring injury. Pagan will give a veteran presence in the outfield. Plus, he has never played in the AL before. KW and company like those kind of FA signings. Jason Hammel- 1 year-12 million- (Slots in as #3 starter behind Q and Rodon) Hammel is getting desperate for a contract and settles on a one year deal to build value. Sox need another righty in starting rotation. Travis Wood- 1 year- 7 million (Slots in as a jack of all trades and an insurance policy for if/when Holland & Shields implode) Wood is getting desperate for a deal as well. Sox sign two ex Cubs pitchers hoping some of the good juju from last year rolls over. 2017 Opening Day Lineup 1) Anderson-SS 2) Pagan-CF 3) Abreu-1B 4) Frazier-3B 5) Cabrera-LF 6) Howard-DH 7) Lawrie-2B 8) Garcia-RF 9) Suzuki-C Starting Roation 1) Q 2) Rodon 3) Hammel 4) Gonzalez 5) Holland/Shields (one is guaranteed to implode ala Danks/Latos last year) Bullpen DRob Jones Putnam Wood Petrickia Jennings Ynoa Covey

It seems like the hang up is that the Sox are asking for at least one "untouchable" prospect + in exchange for Sale. Which team below will cave first? Astros have to give up Bregman + or no dice Nationals have to give up Turner + or no dice Braves have to give up Swanson + or no dice Boston has to give up Moncada/Benitendi + or no dice I'm guessing that no one caves and Sale isn't dealt.

QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Dec 6, 2016 -> 10:54 AM) https://twitter.com/MarkZuckerman/status/806116929975058432 @MarkZuckerman #Nats have made their offer, now waiting for #WhiteSox to take it or leave it. Didn't see this in here. Have a feeling the Sox are gonna leave it. The Sox are asking for Turner and the Nats aren't budging.

Have you guys not been watching White Sox baseball for the last 5 years? This team is nowhere near ready to compete with the big boys. There are massive holes all over the roster. The Sox have no catcher, no CF, No DH (give up on Avi already!), a 2b that is made out of glass, no 5th starter (Shields is toast), 2 legit bullpen arms, and no overall depth. Also, Jerry is not gonna open the pocketbooks and spend what it would take to put this team over the top. You may want Encarncion, Fowler, Desmond, And Wieters but that is an absolute pipedream. You will get Kurt Sukuzi, Carlos Gomez, and Ryan Howard instead. This team needs to be burned to the ground and loaded up with other teams top prospects. I just wish JR would have fired Hahn and KW late last Summer and brought in some new blood.

QUOTE (Baron @ Dec 5, 2016 -> 06:51 PM) I know. I want to be wrong. I just dont think I will be. Doesnt seem like there's much movement on any of our other players besides Sale. There hasn't been any movement because the Sox don't intend to sell. Robertson is the only guy that might be moved. The FO is gonna try to patch the holes by dumpster diving and low profile FA signings. It is the only thing they know how to do.

QUOTE (Knuckles @ Dec 5, 2016 -> 06:11 PM) Merkin tweets: Rick did not come out and flat say White Sox are rebuilding but White Sox are rebuilding. Last time I checked, JR was still the Chairman and KW was still the vice president. Those dudes are calling the shots on the Sox direction not Mr. Hahn. It seems to me like the Sox have no interest in a total rebuild.

This is all just talk and speculation. There will never be a total tear down as long as JR and KW are around. The Sox will continue down the same rebuilding on the fly path that has failed miserably for the last 5-6 years. Pains me to say it but it is very hard to teach an old dog any new tricks.