White sox may be reconsidering their stance of being non sellers

[Panerista]

And trade the prospects you got for Sale for an ace that makes double his salary?

 

Prospects bust. You can't give all your talent away or you wind up really sorry.

Like the Astros and the Cubs. They seem awfully sorry.

[fathom]

Was there ever a good explanation given as to why Turner was starting over Fulmer?

 

Now that they are open for business and the clock is ticking why not let Fulmer start until Rodon comes back and then move him to the pen?

 

Yep, either give Fulmer 10 starts in the majors until he hits his season innings limit or send him to AAA. Moving him to the bullpen for this season is something a contending team would be trying.

Edited July 22, 2016 by fathom

[ptatc]

They haven't been a realistic World Series contender since Sale and Q have put on a White Sox uniform, so...

i think they were. The players have all just had career norm or down years all together. The only player playing above their norm is Melky.

 

Any team that wins the world series needs to have a few players having career years and very few below thier career averages.

 

I liked the plan with adding frazier and Lawrie among others. With their pitching it should have been a really good team.

 

Unfortunately, Abreu tanked, they lost two bullpen pieces to injury and no one on the offense is having that career year.

 

A good plan that didn't work.

 

I have no problem with selling but they need to keep that one piece that is the most difficult to find....The Ace.

[Panerista]

Yep, either give Fulmer 10 starts in the majors until he hits his season innings limit or send him to AAA.

I think the FO is trying to replicate the Sale strategy.

 

i think they were. The players have all just had career norm or down years all together. The only player playing above their norm is Melky.

 

Any team that wins the world series needs to have a few players having career years and very few below thier career averages.

 

I liked the plan with adding frazier and Lawrie among others. With their pitching it should have been a really good team.

 

Unfortunately, Abreu tanked, they lost two bullpen pieces to injury and no one on the offense is having that career year.

 

A good plan that didn't work.

 

I have no problem with selling but they need to keep that one piece that is the most difficult to find....The Ace.

 

The fact that you were fooled didn't make this team a contender. Sorry.

Edited July 22, 2016 by Deadpool

[Southwest Sider]

People aren't going to be able to deal with a full rebuild. Just look at the facts. 2014 was a rebuilding season, how many people complained about Konerko taking the 25th spot and ruining "roster construction"? They weren't going to win, I thought people didn't care. And many who have said this season is over are complaining Jacob Turner is starting tonight. That's what you get in a rebuild. Guys like Jacob Turner starting, for years.

 

 

You should say "some" people can't deal with a rebuild and guys like Jacob Turner starting. Sure, there are always those who can't see the light at the end of the tunnel. Glass half empty sorts of people.

 

Whatever, who cares about them? I have two statements for those kind of people, pick the one you like the most.

 

1) The Sox will be .500 or worse the next 3 years.

 

2) The Sox will be well under .500 the next 3-5 years, but are working on building an elite farm.

 

These people who pick #1 are sacrificing the possibility of a VERY bright future for a couple more W's in a .500 season. What is the point of that? There is no "but" with #1 other than "but maybe they will catch lightning in a bottle ala 2005 and win it all". The competition is too stiff in the American League to hope for miracles. 2005 was a miracle, and it seems like we keep chasing a title using a strategy similar to 2005. It just doesn't work.

 

If people get pissed about a few horses*** seasons with the caveat that they're rebuilding, then screw them. That's on them for being closed minded.

[Dick Allen]

People who speak of our core and how close we are to competing...

 

sure, our core is great. But you need a supporting cast to win. Our regime has proven time and time again that they are incapable of gathering an adequate supporting cast to complement our core.

So you want these people to trade their established players for people they think will be good one day?

[lasttriptotulsa]

Royals

 

Well that's not true. The Royals didn't sell of players and wait for the prospects received to arrive (other than Cain for Greinke 5 years earlier). Their core lineup was acquired by having high picks due to many years of sucking and they cobbled together a pitching staff of has beens and never was's. That team on average was older than the current White Sox team.

 

[fathom]

Doesn't matter. If they aren't going to win what difference does it make? Why do you harp on JB Shuck if you are all for losing and a rebuild? Why did you complain about Konerko in 2014?

 

If the Sox went into full rebuild mode and had castoffs and just about every position, there would be plenty of complaining. Even from you.

 

Because it's an indictment on Rick Hahn and the fact he's seemingly not on the hot seat is absolutely astonishing to me. He's the AL version of AJ Preller.

[Panerista]

So you want these people to trade their established players for people they think will be good one day?

Yes, because that's what MLB teams do now. You're either contending or you're rebuilding. Not sure why this is so hard for you.

[ptatc]

Like the Astros and the Cubs. They seem awfully sorry.

The cubs for all of their young players still depend on two veterans for success, Arrieta and Lester. One was a pure luck minor deal, the other a significant FA signing of well over 100 million dollars.

 

why depend on luck or over spending when the Sox currently have that piece?

[Bob Sacamano]

People harp on those guys because they are trying to contend. Now that they're open to rebuilding, I don't really care who's in the lineup.

[ptatc]

I think the FO is trying to replicate the Sale strategy.

 

 

 

The fact that you were fooled didn't make this team a contender. Sorry.

The fact that you couldn't look at it logically doesn't matter either.

[Panerista]

The cubs for all of their young players still depend on two veterans for success, Arrieta and Lester. One was a pure luck minor deal, the other a significant FA signing of well over 100 million dollars.

 

why depend on luck or over spending when the Sox currently have that piece?

The Cubs are the opposite of us. They have two pitchers they bought and a team loaded with young talent at key positions. We have a garbage team we bought and home grown pitchers. The problem is our team sucks and we would be better off being bad and drafting better talent.

 

The fact that you couldn't look at it logically doesn't matter either.

 

There is no logic that states this current method is working and there's really no good way to keep Sale and Q and magically turn our team into contenders. Time to wake up.

 

Attendance and interest is at an all-time low. There's no excuse not to start over.

Edited July 22, 2016 by Deadpool

[southsider2k5]

I hate to use them as an example, but look at the Cubs. Once they became ready, they signed Jon Lester. This is all assuming that Rodon, Fulmer, Urias, De Leon, 2017 1st round pick, etc. all bust, and that's pretty unlikely

 

This is actually a great example. Anyone expect the Sox to lay down $150 million for a player to take them to the next level after a rebuild? Yeah, me neither.

[Sox Fan In Husker Land]

People aren't going to be able to deal with a full rebuild. Just look at the facts. 2014 was a rebuilding season, how many people complained about Konerko taking the 25th spot and ruining "roster construction"? They weren't going to win, I thought people didn't care. And many who have said this season is over are complaining Jacob Turner is starting tonight. That's what you get in a rebuild. Guys like Jacob Turner starting, for years.

 

So what happens if they do a full rebuild? Does it matter if they go from 5th worst in attendance to dead last?

 

2012 - 24th

2013 - 24th

2014 - 28th

2015 - 26th

2016 - 26th

 

The Royals who have less resources than what the Sox have, had sucked balls for a long time, in 2010 they traded their young Cy Young winner in Zach Greinke who was under team control for 2 more seasons. That didn't sit well with their fans. They netted Cain and Escobar, and used Odorizzi as part of a package to get them Shields and Wade Davis. Couple that with their drafting of Hosmer, Moustakas, and Gordon and bam they had a team that went from awful to losing a WS and then winning one. In small market KC. KC also had some big misses on high draft choices as well during that span. Top 5 picks of Cristian Colon, Bubba Starling, and Kyle Zimmer have not done much if anything. If they had hit on their top picks in the 2010-12 drafts they would be in the playoffs again this year, even with all of their injuries.

 

KC's attendance went like this:

 

2009 - 26th

2010 - 25th (Greinke traded in offseason)

2011 - 27th

2012 - 25th

2013 - 26th

2014 - 25th

2015 - 10th

2016 - 11th

 

Their attendance stayed virtually the same, until all that young talent came through for them. Now they have 30K at every game for a .500 team.

Edited July 22, 2016 by Sox Fan In Husker Land

[Panerista]

This is actually a great example. Anyone expect the Sox to lay down $150 million for a player to take them to the next level after a rebuild? Yeah, me neither.

The Sox have not been in a situation where they're spending bargain basement money on their players. I don't know what they would do if they were young, good and a starter away from contention.

[ptatc]

The Cubs are the opposite of us. They have two pitchers they bought and a team loaded with young talent at key positions. We have a garbage team we bought and home grown pitchers. The problem is our team sucks and we would be better off being bad and drafting better talent.

 

 

 

There is no logic that states this current method is working and there's really no good way to keep Sale and Q and magically turn our team into contenders. Time to wake up.

 

Attendance and interest is at an all-time low. There's no excuse not to start over.

sure it does. Do you think the sox would be in contention if Abreu was hitting his norms and Petricka and Putnam were pitching to their norms?

 

Also, I didn't say to keep Sale and Quintana, I said you need to keep one. They need the guy at the top. I'm all for trading one, preferably quintana.

[TheTruth05]

Because it's an indictment on Rick Hahn and the fact he's seemingly not on the hot seat is absolutely astonishing to me. He's the AL version of AJ Preller.

 

This is spot on, sell the whole team but what does it matter when it's the same guy doing the selling who did the buying? Get a new FO completely or retool.

[Jose Abreu]

This is spot on, sell the whole team but what does it matter when it's the same guy doing the selling who did the buying? Get a new FO completely or retool.

To be fair, some of the buying moves had KW written all over them

[Panerista]

sure it does. Do you think the sox would be in contention if Abreu was hitting his norms and Petricka and Putnam were pitching to their norms?

 

Also, I didn't say to keep Sale and Quintana, I said you need to keep one. They need the guy at the top. I'm all for trading one, preferably quintana.

No. The whole team has an OBP problem.

[TheTruth05]

To be fair, some of the buying moves had KW written all over them

 

That's a narrative man, if Hahn let KW dictate his moves as a GM he's an even worse GM than I thought.

[Jose Abreu]

That's a narrative man, if Hahn let KW dictate his moves as a GM he's an even worse GM than I thought.

I don't think it was Hahn's choice

[Panerista]

That's a narrative man, if Hahn let KW dictate his moves as a GM he's an even worse GM than I thought.

This is a different discussion, but you do realize KW is higher on the totem pole than Rick, right?

[lasttriptotulsa]

That's a narrative man, if Hahn let KW dictate his moves as a GM he's an even worse GM than I thought.

 

KW is Hahn's boss. Hahn has wanted to rebuild and was overridden by KW and JR.

[YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES!]

I wonder what would've happened in 2013 if Hahn had the final say in things.