October 4, 20169 yr Some are angry but I agree with Hahn that it doesn't make any sense to state a direction. I think they will shop Sale and Quintana. If they get what they are looking for, I think they move Sale and go from there. If the offers aren't there though, I could see something similar to last offseason but with better players added. I highly doubt they will be spending on a player with a QO attached though.
October 4, 20169 yr QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Oct 4, 2016 -> 08:23 AM) Some are angry but I agree with Hahn that it doesn't make any sense to state a direction. I think they will shop Sale and Quintana. If they get what they are looking for, I think they move Sale and go from there. If the offers aren't there though, I could see something similar to last offseason but with better players added. I highly doubt they will be spending on a player with a QO attached though. And where do these "better players" come from? There aren't many good free agents. The few that are out there will be given ridiculously massive contracts from teams like the Red Sox, Dodgers, etc.
October 4, 20169 yr QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Oct 4, 2016 -> 08:48 AM) And where do these "better players" come from? There aren't many good free agents. The few that are out there will be given ridiculously massive contracts from teams like the Red Sox, Dodgers, etc. Exactly why I want a rebuild this year. Bad free agent market will help the returns on our vets.
October 4, 20169 yr QUOTE (Flash Tizzle @ Oct 4, 2016 -> 04:28 AM) Once again the world conspires against the White Sox right? Funny how that always happens. When the opportunity arrives for us to sell two quality SP....no one is willing to meet our demands, prospects are too highly regarded (ad if they're ever not), or as you suggest the best prospects are in rebuilding organizations. Basically, Boston and LA won't trade any of their premier talent because they don't need to; and the lesser teams won't because they're rebuilding. I'm not going to give Hahn a pass after the trade deadline debacle and neither should any of you should shrug your shoulders and say they're in a really bad situation. Too bad! Make it work Hahn. Whatever he needs to do to trade Q and or Sale for a haul of players to rebuild this team needs to occur. I don't care about "needing two willing people to trade," nope. No more excuses for Hahn. He needs to deeply evaluable every viable prospect and major league player to assemble his trade package. There should be 30+ proposals at his disposal, one for every team. Even those with no chance of considering. This offseason will determine the course of our future, he should be acting as much This post is perfect. I keep looking back to what the Braves got back for Shelby Miller. Their partner in that trade just fired its GM. The Sox don't have to pull off a robbery but at some point we have to think about why we're not trading our pitching assets while teams all around the league are receiving ridiculous prices for theirs. Are we unwilling to do what is necessary, or unable? What's going on. At least we have James Shields.
October 4, 20169 yr QUOTE (shysocks @ Oct 4, 2016 -> 09:14 AM) This post is perfect. I keep looking back to what the Braves got back for Shelby Miller. Their partner in that trade just fired its GM. The Sox don't have to pull off a robbery but at some point we have to think about why we're not trading our pitching assets while teams all around the league are receiving ridiculous prices for theirs. Are we unwilling to do what is necessary, or unable? What's going on. At least we have James Shields. I think it's on Jerry.
October 4, 20169 yr QUOTE (oldsox @ Oct 4, 2016 -> 07:14 AM) C/mon Man. Get real. Do you think Boston will give up Moncada? No way. After popping $60 Million for him? And you think Sox will throw $18 Large at Pedro Alvarez??? What??
October 4, 20169 yr Sign alvarez or adam lind to DH. fulmer and burdi add to pitching staff. fulmer/shields 5th starter & long man spot starter. lawrie 2nd base til june 1st. then dfa or trade. saladino,leury,tilson and cheap vet fight it out in center. when june rolls around, reassess and add or trade everyone.
October 4, 20169 yr QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Oct 4, 2016 -> 08:48 AM) And where do these "better players" come from? There aren't many good free agents. The few that are out there will be given ridiculously massive contracts from teams like the Red Sox, Dodgers, etc. This is why I want to rebuild. I don't think a Jason Castro, Lind/Alvarez, and Saunders/Rasmus/Gomez offseason is that much of a difference but I could see them doing it.
October 4, 20169 yr QUOTE (oldsox @ Oct 4, 2016 -> 07:14 AM) C/mon Man. Get real. Do you think Boston will give up Moncada? No way. After popping $60 Million for him? And you think Sox will throw $18 Large at Pedro Alvarez??? What?? When it is the White Sox, it is dead money, and they should cut him, like was said about John Danks. On top of it, this money was already paid out. It is literally gone money.
October 4, 20169 yr QUOTE (zisk @ Oct 4, 2016 -> 09:43 AM) Sign alvarez or adam lind to DH. fulmer and burdi add to pitching staff. fulmer/shields 5th starter & long man spot starter. lawrie 2nd base til june 1st. then dfa or trade. saladino,leury,tilson and cheap vet fight it out in center. when june rolls around, reassess and add or trade everyone. We're shuffling around players to once again finish around .500. Why even bother going through all that? We can reasses now after this season that a rebuild is needed. Why waste anymore time? I don't think people realize Sale and Q are more valuable to this team as trade bait than bringing them a championship. We're not winning anytime soon, and this franchise should be blown apart if neither of those two are traded and (god forbid) they're injured or ineffective come midseason. We may tell each other we don't need to trade one or both, but we do
October 4, 20169 yr I guess one of my biggest questions for planning for the future is how they plan to implement Collins. Realistically, I'm pretty confident he will be on the major league team no later than 2018, so will he be taking over at C or DH? Both are areas of weakness, so replacements are needed, but it's much easier to have a plan on attack for this offseason if you can envision where the team plans to use him. The Sox can go 1 of 3 ways: Go For It -See if Shields bounces back in spring training next year, if not, DFA him. No competitive team can trot him out there every 5th day and hope to play in October. -Sign Jason Castro to a 2 yr contract. Excellent defensive metrics again this season, great framing statistics, poor to mediocre offense which could be offset by the addition of a big bat. -Sign one of Encarnacion or Cespedes. You need another big bat in the middle, Encarnacion is the better bat, but he's older and doesnt provide any defensive value. Plus, if the Sox see Collins as DH, it would make more sense to go Cespedes and move Melky to DH, so you can slide Collins in to replace him after he leaves. For the sake of this exercise, I will say they sign Cespedes. -I think Carlos Gomez gets more offers than expected, so I think it would be beneficial to look at a guy like Rasmus for CF. The offensive numbers weren't really there this season, but he is a plus defender in the OF and with Eaton and Cespedes maning the other 2 positions, the OF defense would be massively upgraded. If he doesn't work out, you can always try with Tilson while Engel gets more seasoning in AAA. -Start Burdi in AAA and bring him up in June or July to provide a shot in the arm to the pen SS Anderson RF Eaton 1B Abreu LF Cespedes DH Cabrera 3B Frazier CF Rasmus C Castro 2B Lawrie/Saladino BE Lawrie/Saladino BE Narvaez BE Tilson BE Davidson? SP Sale SP Quintana SP Rodon SP Gonzalez SP Fulmer/Shields CL Robertson SU Jones SU Petricka RP Jennings RP Putnam RP Fulmer/Shields RP Ynoa? RP ? Buy and Sell This is the route I ultimately think the franchise decides to go. I think Chris Sale's days with the White Sox are numbered and I think they will ultimately do pretty well in a trade for him. I think the team tries to capitalize off that one trade and compete while also planning for the future. -Trade Chris Sale to the Red Sox for Andrew Benintendi, Rafael Devers, Michael Kopech, Eduardo Rodriguez, and Blake Swihart. In this trade, the Sox get someone they covet for some reason in Swihart, they get a stud CF, the eventual replacement for Frazier, a young power arm, and a rotation piece for the present. Fills needs but also builds for the future. -Sign Edwin Encarnacion to offset the loss in pitching. I'd personally go somewhere around 4 yr, $92 million. -Sign Boone Logan as your second lefty in the pen. -Bring up Burdi and really make the bullpen a strength. Shorten the game for the starters and make the bullpen lock down. RF Eaton SS Benintendi 1B Abreu DH Encarnacion LF Cabera 3B Frazier C Swihart 2B Lawrie/Saladino SS Anderson BE Lawrie/Saladino BE Narvaez BE Tilson BE Davidson? SP Quintana SP Rodon SP Gonzalez SP Rodriguez SP Fulmer/Shields CL Robertson SU Jones SU Burdi RP Jennings RP Logan RP Putnam RP Petricka Rebuild This is the hardest to predict. If they start a massive rebuild, I look for Quintana to go to the Dodgers and Sale to go to the Red Sox. I think Frazier, Melky, and Robertson go at the deadline. Lawrie probably goes for a flier piece in the offseason.
October 4, 20169 yr QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Oct 4, 2016 -> 10:03 AM) This is why I want to rebuild. I don't think a Jason Castro, Lind/Alvarez, and Saunders/Rasmus/Gomez offseason is that much of a difference but I could see them doing it. I could definitely see this happening but it'll be another underachieving season. Just delaying the inevitable in all reality. I want a rebuild badly because I want to be good for a length of time not one season.
October 4, 20169 yr QUOTE (Dunt @ Oct 4, 2016 -> 10:41 AM) I guess one of my biggest questions for planning for the future is how they plan to implement Collins. Realistically, I'm pretty confident he will be on the major league team no later than 2018, so will he be taking over at C or DH? Both are areas of weakness, so replacements are needed, but it's much easier to have a plan on attack for this offseason if you can envision where the team plans to use him. The Sox can go 1 of 3 ways: Go For It -See if Shields bounces back in spring training next year, if not, DFA him. No competitive team can trot him out there every 5th day and hope to play in October. -Sign Jason Castro to a 2 yr contract. Excellent defensive metrics again this season, great framing statistics, poor to mediocre offense which could be offset by the addition of a big bat. -Sign one of Encarnacion or Cespedes. You need another big bat in the middle, Encarnacion is the better bat, but he's older and doesnt provide any defensive value. Plus, if the Sox see Collins as DH, it would make more sense to go Cespedes and move Melky to DH, so you can slide Collins in to replace him after he leaves. For the sake of this exercise, I will say they sign Cespedes. -I think Carlos Gomez gets more offers than expected, so I think it would be beneficial to look at a guy like Rasmus for CF. The offensive numbers weren't really there this season, but he is a plus defender in the OF and with Eaton and Cespedes maning the other 2 positions, the OF defense would be massively upgraded. If he doesn't work out, you can always try with Tilson while Engel gets more seasoning in AAA. -Start Burdi in AAA and bring him up in June or July to provide a shot in the arm to the pen SS Anderson RF Eaton 1B Abreu LF Cespedes DH Cabrera 3B Frazier CF Rasmus C Castro 2B Lawrie/Saladino BE Lawrie/Saladino BE Narvaez BE Tilson BE Davidson? SP Sale SP Quintana SP Rodon SP Gonzalez SP Fulmer/Shields CL Robertson SU Jones SU Petricka RP Jennings RP Putnam RP Fulmer/Shields RP Ynoa? RP ? Buy and Sell This is the route I ultimately think the franchise decides to go. I think Chris Sale's days with the White Sox are numbered and I think they will ultimately do pretty well in a trade for him. I think the team tries to capitalize off that one trade and compete while also planning for the future. -Trade Chris Sale to the Red Sox for Andrew Benintendi, Rafael Devers, Michael Kopech, Eduardo Rodriguez, and Blake Swihart. In this trade, the Sox get someone they covet for some reason in Swihart, they get a stud CF, the eventual replacement for Frazier, a young power arm, and a rotation piece for the present. Fills needs but also builds for the future. -Sign Edwin Encarnacion to offset the loss in pitching. I'd personally go somewhere around 4 yr, $92 million. -Sign Boone Logan as your second lefty in the pen. -Bring up Burdi and really make the bullpen a strength. Shorten the game for the starters and make the bullpen lock down. RF Eaton SS Benintendi 1B Abreu DH Encarnacion LF Cabera 3B Frazier C Swihart 2B Lawrie/Saladino SS Anderson BE Lawrie/Saladino BE Narvaez BE Tilson BE Davidson? SP Quintana SP Rodon SP Gonzalez SP Rodriguez SP Fulmer/Shields CL Robertson SU Jones SU Burdi RP Jennings RP Logan RP Putnam RP Petricka Rebuild This is the hardest to predict. If they start a massive rebuild, I look for Quintana to go to the Dodgers and Sale to go to the Red Sox. I think Frazier, Melky, and Robertson go at the deadline. Lawrie probably goes for a flier piece in the offseason. Great post. You really hit all the scenarios they could go to. Any time Boone Logan gets mentioned, I give a thumbs up. I used to love that guy.
October 4, 20169 yr QUOTE (Dunt @ Oct 4, 2016 -> 10:41 AM) I guess one of my biggest questions for planning for the future is how they plan to implement Collins. Realistically, I'm pretty confident he will be on the major league team no later than 2018, so will he be taking over at C or DH? Both are areas of weakness, so replacements are needed, but it's much easier to have a plan on attack for this offseason if you can envision where the team plans to use him. The Sox can go 1 of 3 ways: Go For It -See if Shields bounces back in spring training next year, if not, DFA him. No competitive team can trot him out there every 5th day and hope to play in October. -Sign Jason Castro to a 2 yr contract. Excellent defensive metrics again this season, great framing statistics, poor to mediocre offense which could be offset by the addition of a big bat. -Sign one of Encarnacion or Cespedes. You need another big bat in the middle, Encarnacion is the better bat, but he's older and doesnt provide any defensive value. Plus, if the Sox see Collins as DH, it would make more sense to go Cespedes and move Melky to DH, so you can slide Collins in to replace him after he leaves. For the sake of this exercise, I will say they sign Cespedes. -I think Carlos Gomez gets more offers than expected, so I think it would be beneficial to look at a guy like Rasmus for CF. The offensive numbers weren't really there this season, but he is a plus defender in the OF and with Eaton and Cespedes maning the other 2 positions, the OF defense would be massively upgraded. If he doesn't work out, you can always try with Tilson while Engel gets more seasoning in AAA. -Start Burdi in AAA and bring him up in June or July to provide a shot in the arm to the pen SS Anderson RF Eaton 1B Abreu LF Cespedes DH Cabrera 3B Frazier CF Rasmus C Castro 2B Lawrie/Saladino BE Lawrie/Saladino BE Narvaez BE Tilson BE Davidson? SP Sale SP Quintana SP Rodon SP Gonzalez SP Fulmer/Shields CL Robertson SU Jones SU Petricka RP Jennings RP Putnam RP Fulmer/Shields RP Ynoa? RP ? Buy and Sell This is the route I ultimately think the franchise decides to go. I think Chris Sale's days with the White Sox are numbered and I think they will ultimately do pretty well in a trade for him. I think the team tries to capitalize off that one trade and compete while also planning for the future. -Trade Chris Sale to the Red Sox for Andrew Benintendi, Rafael Devers, Michael Kopech, Eduardo Rodriguez, and Blake Swihart. In this trade, the Sox get someone they covet for some reason in Swihart, they get a stud CF, the eventual replacement for Frazier, a young power arm, and a rotation piece for the present. Fills needs but also builds for the future. -Sign Edwin Encarnacion to offset the loss in pitching. I'd personally go somewhere around 4 yr, $92 million. -Sign Boone Logan as your second lefty in the pen. -Bring up Burdi and really make the bullpen a strength. Shorten the game for the starters and make the bullpen lock down. RF Eaton SS Benintendi 1B Abreu DH Encarnacion LF Cabera 3B Frazier C Swihart 2B Lawrie/Saladino SS Anderson BE Lawrie/Saladino BE Narvaez BE Tilson BE Davidson? SP Quintana SP Rodon SP Gonzalez SP Rodriguez SP Fulmer/Shields CL Robertson SU Jones SU Burdi RP Jennings RP Logan RP Putnam RP Petricka Rebuild This is the hardest to predict. If they start a massive rebuild, I look for Quintana to go to the Dodgers and Sale to go to the Red Sox. I think Frazier, Melky, and Robertson go at the deadline. Lawrie probably goes for a flier piece in the offseason. Love this post. I have Sale to Boston and Q to LAD as well.
October 4, 20169 yr QUOTE (SouthSideSale @ Oct 4, 2016 -> 10:46 AM) Love this post. I have Sale to Boston and Q to LAD as well. I think that you need to keep one of those guys. The Sox rotation would suck for a long time with Rodon being the only one who's been proven to get out ML hitters.
October 4, 20169 yr QUOTE (Black_Jack29 @ Oct 4, 2016 -> 11:00 AM) I think that you need to keep one of those guys. The Sox rotation would suck for a long time with Rodon being the only one who's been proven to get out ML hitters. Yeah I don't see both going. I think one goes this offseason (Sale) and the other in the next year/year and a half (Quintana).
October 4, 20169 yr QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Oct 4, 2016 -> 11:06 AM) Yeah I don't see both going. I think one goes this offseason (Sale) and the other in the next year/year and a half (Quintana). No, I mean that you need to keep one of them for the rebuilding process. Rodon is the only starter who has been proven to get ML hitters out. Fulmer still needs work and he probably won't be more than a #3. I think that the Sox should keep Q and rebuild and him, Rodon, Fulmer, Nate Jones, Frazier, Abreu, Eaton, and Anderson. Q is under team control through 2020 and if the Sox do their rebuild properly, they should be competitive by 2019. Edited October 4, 20169 yr by Black_Jack29
October 4, 20169 yr QUOTE (Dunt @ Oct 4, 2016 -> 10:41 AM) I guess one of my biggest questions for planning for the future is how they plan to implement Collins. Realistically, I'm pretty confident he will be on the major league team no later than 2018, so will he be taking over at C or DH? Both are areas of weakness, so replacements are needed, but it's much easier to have a plan on attack for this offseason if you can envision where the team plans to use him. The Sox can go 1 of 3 ways: Go For It -See if Shields bounces back in spring training next year, if not, DFA him. No competitive team can trot him out there every 5th day and hope to play in October. -Sign Jason Castro to a 2 yr contract. Excellent defensive metrics again this season, great framing statistics, poor to mediocre offense which could be offset by the addition of a big bat. -Sign one of Encarnacion or Cespedes. You need another big bat in the middle, Encarnacion is the better bat, but he's older and doesnt provide any defensive value. Plus, if the Sox see Collins as DH, it would make more sense to go Cespedes and move Melky to DH, so you can slide Collins in to replace him after he leaves. For the sake of this exercise, I will say they sign Cespedes. -I think Carlos Gomez gets more offers than expected, so I think it would be beneficial to look at a guy like Rasmus for CF. The offensive numbers weren't really there this season, but he is a plus defender in the OF and with Eaton and Cespedes maning the other 2 positions, the OF defense would be massively upgraded. If he doesn't work out, you can always try with Tilson while Engel gets more seasoning in AAA. -Start Burdi in AAA and bring him up in June or July to provide a shot in the arm to the pen SS Anderson RF Eaton 1B Abreu LF Cespedes DH Cabrera 3B Frazier CF Rasmus C Castro 2B Lawrie/Saladino BE Lawrie/Saladino BE Narvaez BE Tilson BE Davidson? SP Sale SP Quintana SP Rodon SP Gonzalez SP Fulmer/Shields CL Robertson SU Jones SU Petricka RP Jennings RP Putnam RP Fulmer/Shields RP Ynoa? RP ? Buy and Sell This is the route I ultimately think the franchise decides to go. I think Chris Sale's days with the White Sox are numbered and I think they will ultimately do pretty well in a trade for him. I think the team tries to capitalize off that one trade and compete while also planning for the future. -Trade Chris Sale to the Red Sox for Andrew Benintendi, Rafael Devers, Michael Kopech, Eduardo Rodriguez, and Blake Swihart. In this trade, the Sox get someone they covet for some reason in Swihart, they get a stud CF, the eventual replacement for Frazier, a young power arm, and a rotation piece for the present. Fills needs but also builds for the future. -Sign Edwin Encarnacion to offset the loss in pitching. I'd personally go somewhere around 4 yr, $92 million. -Sign Boone Logan as your second lefty in the pen. -Bring up Burdi and really make the bullpen a strength. Shorten the game for the starters and make the bullpen lock down. RF Eaton SS Benintendi 1B Abreu DH Encarnacion LF Cabera 3B Frazier C Swihart 2B Lawrie/Saladino SS Anderson BE Lawrie/Saladino BE Narvaez BE Tilson BE Davidson? SP Quintana SP Rodon SP Gonzalez SP Rodriguez SP Fulmer/Shields CL Robertson SU Jones SU Burdi RP Jennings RP Logan RP Putnam RP Petricka Rebuild This is the hardest to predict. If they start a massive rebuild, I look for Quintana to go to the Dodgers and Sale to go to the Red Sox. I think Frazier, Melky, and Robertson go at the deadline. Lawrie probably goes for a flier piece in the offseason. I love the effort. I don't think they'd give up the 12th pick in the draft to sign Encarnacion though. I just don't see them giving up a pick and I hope they don't.
October 4, 20169 yr QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Oct 4, 2016 -> 11:29 AM) I love the effort. I don't think they'd give up the 12th pick in the draft to sign Encarnacion though. I just don't see them giving up a pick and I hope they don't.
October 4, 20169 yr QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Oct 4, 2016 -> 12:00 PM) What's with the Jason Castro love? He's worse than Avila 1. He's an available warm body who can actually catch. This is an upgrade from where the White Sox currently are. 2. He has played 100+ games each of the past 4 years. This is a substantial upgrade from where Alex Avila has been the last 2 years. 3. He is generally thought as one of the better pitch framers in the game. 4. He had a really spectacular offensive season a few years ago and guys at the catcher's spot sometimes do take years to break out because of all the physical and mental demands. 5. He is at least a positive value catcher and the White Sox would need something from that position in order to compete.
October 4, 20169 yr QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Oct 4, 2016 -> 11:29 AM) I love the effort. I don't think they'd give up the 12th pick in the draft to sign Encarnacion though. I just don't see them giving up a pick and I hope they don't. Ya, I don't see them being the team to outbid everyone for his services, especially with losing the 12th pick. He would just be the type of hitter I would consider giving up the pick for. Instantly helps in the areas the Sox need boosts in (OBP, ISO, BB%, etc.) and probably gives them a middle of the league offense. The only validation I could see for getting the pick is if it doesn't end up working out, you can probably flip some guys to get comparable value to losing the pick during the season. I really doubt they spend that type of money, especially on a DH, but if they spent on anybody this offseason, I'd want it to be Encarnacion.
October 4, 20169 yr reason to wait until june for overhaul. NICK CASTELLANO I think most agree that 2016 draft was best SOX draft in forever. if N.C. has a 2017 draft nearly as strong , the farm system may not need a major influent in talent . with spencer adams and erik hanson along with fulmer and burdi the sox could trade Q or Sale for hitting and contend very quickly.
October 4, 20169 yr QUOTE (fathom @ Oct 4, 2016 -> 12:06 PM) Encarnacion is likely going to Boston. Poorly kept secret Where do the Red Sox put Hanley, Shaw, and Sandoval?
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