Quintana Rumors: Round and round and round we go

[Bob Sacamano]

Sorry if my comment read that way haha. I know we agree

 

I keep reading all this Rockies optimism, and just can't get over the fact that a few moves (Trumbo/Encarnacion + Desmond + Dunn) is not going to take them from 75 to 88+ wins

 

It's all good. They definitely can't count on scoring ten runs every game to win.

[bmags]

If I were any team that needed bullpen help I would be after Jones over Robertson.

 

Well yes, but Jones throws fireballs and that is the only pitch they are confident in.

[steveno89]

You keep keep acting like I'm disagreeing with you based on your comments lol I know their pitching needs help as I've mentioned a bunch throughout this thread.

 

Edit: and I bet if they add one more bat, they will be on the phone with them with an offer that will blow us away.

 

Interesting to think about what a potential package of Quintana and Robertson to the Rockies would return?

 

For fun:

 

White Sox send: Jose Quintana + David Robertson

 

Rockies send: Brendan Rodgers + Riley Pint + Raimel Tapia + German Marquez + Tom Murphy

 

 

[steveno89]

Well yes, but Jones throws fireballs and that is the only pitch they are confident in.

 

Jones would not come cheap in a trade either

 

He had a strong 2016 and is signed to a cheap contract

[Con te Giolito]

The only way I see a trade with the Rockies working is a 3 team deal. They have no reason to gut their farm when they already have excess MLB pieces that they would rather sell.

 

Indians: Blackmon

Rockies: Quintana

Sox: Bradley Zimmer, Francisco Mejia, Kyle Freeland, Ben Bowden

 

And I'm not even sure that feels quite right. But there is no way the Rockies trade Brendan Rodgers before an OF. I hope I'm wrong, but I just dont see a reason for them to do that.

[bmags]

Jones would not come cheap in a trade either

 

He had a strong 2016 and is signed to a cheap contract

 

I didn't suggest he would come cheap. I am suggesting he is a much better bullpen piece because he is more likely to succeed in Coors field. Robertson is a terrible idea there.

[steveno89]

The only way I see a trade with the Rockies working is a 3 team deal. They have no reason to gut their farm when they already have excess MLB pieces that they would rather sell.

 

Indians: Blackmon

Rockies: Quintana

Sox: Bradley Zimmer, Francisco Mejia, Kyle Freeland, Ben Bowden

 

And I'm not even sure that feels quite right. But there is no way the Rockies trade Brendan Rodgers before an OF. I hope I'm wrong, but I just dont see a reason for them to do that.

 

I would not accept that trade offer. Zimmer is 23 years old and striking out at over a 30% rate in AA/AAA. I don't think Cleveland would want to part with Meija in that deal either

 

 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

Well yes, but Jones throws fireballs and that is the only pitch they are confident in.

Slider ?

[Whitesoxa6]

I would not accept that trade offer. Zimmer is 23 years old and striking out at over a 30% rate in AA/AAA. I don't think Cleveland would want to part with Meija in that deal either

Long time lurker but I agree. Id accept Rodgers paired with Meija though. That would be a nice haul

[fathom]

Fwiw KLaw mentioned in his chat today how awful the rumored Astros package would have been for Hahn. He also said he's not sure if that was the actual trade discussion.

[illinilaw08]

I would much much rather have encarnacion over trumbo as well

 

If they can sign Encarnacion, as well as trade for Quintana + significant amount of bullpen help, then I would buy them contending for the West

 

That pitching is just too crappy to ignore right now

 

They have a couple good pieces in the rotation. Tyler Anderson was good for 2.5 bWar over 19 starts last year. Jon Gray had some awful outings, but he was worth 2.3 bWAR and struck out almost 10 per 9 with a FIP of 3.63 (better numbers than Rodon). Chatwood was 3.5 bWAR, though his peripherals weren't great.

 

It's not a murderer's row of a rotation, and definitely isn't a contending rotation, but they have some good pieces and the lineup is going to rake. They really need Gray to continue to develop, and they need to add a TOR starter. But I can absolutely see why they would be patient and see how they start out of the gates before buying - particularly since Q would cost several impact pieces off the farm.

[steveno89]

Fwiw KLaw mentioned in his chat today how awful the rumored Astros package would have been for Hahn. He also said he's not sure if that was the actual trade discussion.

 

On second thought, I kind of agree

 

If we are dealing Quintana it better be for a superior return

 

Make a team pay the piper for him

[southsider2k5]

As mentioned a million times in this thread, then you simply wait. Hahn and Co. seem to understand this fairly well.

 

The market is always changing. Q has also been one of the healthiest, most consistent bets in baseball. I have zero issue with them holding him until June, or the deadline, or next off-season

 

The deadline might even work better, as teams are more inclined to move prospects versus players on the 25 man roster, which will fit the White Sox needs better.

[steveno89]

They have a couple good pieces in the rotation. Tyler Anderson was good for 2.5 bWar over 19 starts last year. Jon Gray had some awful outings, but he was worth 2.3 bWAR and struck out almost 10 per 9 with a FIP of 3.63 (better numbers than Rodon). Chatwood was 3.5 bWAR, though his peripherals weren't great.

 

It's not a murderer's row of a rotation, and definitely isn't a contending rotation, but they have some good pieces and the lineup is going to rake. They really need Gray to continue to develop, and they need to add a TOR starter. But I can absolutely see why they would be patient and see how they start out of the gates before buying - particularly since Q would cost several impact pieces off the farm.

 

The starting rotation is one thing. The bigger issue is a bullpen devoid of reliable arms

 

Even if the rotation improves, that bullpen will blow a ton of games

 

Side note: Keith Law brought up some interesting points

 

1) "Nick: If you were Lunhow, would you trade Musgrove + Martes + Tucker for Quintana, and why or why not? I go back and forth as an Astros fan but think I’d be happy with him pulling the trigger.

Klaw: If I’m Luhnow I do it. If I’m Hahn I’m not even countering because it’s so low. FWIW, I don’t know that that was ever discussed by the clubs."

 

2) "Ceej: Would you move Moncada to CF to take advantage of his speed?

Klaw: If he shows he can’t improve at 3b. Lifelong infielder moving to CF shouldn’t be taken as a given that it works."

 

3) "Rob: I know the Pirates are probably unlikely to get involved, but would Meadows, Keller and Newman be enough/too much to get Quintana?

Klaw: I don’t think that fits the White Sox’ goals for such a deal and probably isn’t enough close-to-the-majors value, but it’s better than the reported Houston proposal."

 

4) "Keith: Now that the White Sox are clearing their MLB roster, do you think Matt Davidson will get a chance to play? Last I heard, his 3B defense was considered plus. Does he still have everyday starter upside to you?

Klaw: He’s not a plus defender, but he has a good swing and average power. I hope he gets one more chance before he’s discarded to the NRI scrap heap."

 

5) "Priya: Any trick to identifying which prospect with Sale like deficiencies will defy the odds and stay healthy or is it a fool’s errand?

Klaw: I don’t think so, but I tend to think in a certain way, building heuristics and being very critical of exceptions to those guidelines. Sale violated several of them – the bad delivery, the lack of a breaking ball in college, and the narrow frame – and yet has had a Hall of Fame start to his career. Credit the White Sox with drafting him in spite of the questions about whether he could start, and with getting him from a 40 breaking ball to a 70. But if I saw another Chris Sale I’d probably have similar reservations because the majority of guys with those issues don’t pan out."\

 

6) "Tommy Tutone: How good is Lance McCullers? Will he be a #1?

Klaw: I’ve said for a while I think LMJr will end up in the bullpen because of his delivery. It’s ace stuff, but he has yet to hit 160 innings in any season and keeps getting hurt. I’d rather see him stay healthy all year."

 

[fathom]

KLaw also raved about Carson Kelly and thought Sisco could be a solid starter at catcher

[BigSqwert]

[GGajewski18]

KLaw also raved about Carson Kelly and thought Sisco could be a solid starter at catcher

 

I'd love to get Chance Sisco on the Sox.

[bmags]

It's funny the variation. JJ Cooper said he wouldn't do the Musgrove/Tucker/Martes deal for Quintana and Law says he wouldn't even respond to it.

 

Law says Giolito is still top prospect with mechanics screwed while Lopez is a bullpen piece. Cooper says Lopez is the superior prospect to Giolito.

[southsider2k5]

It's funny the variation. JJ Cooper said he wouldn't do the Musgrove/Tucker/Martes deal for Sale and Law says he wouldn't even respond to it.

 

Law says Giolito is still top prospect with mechanics screwed while Lopez is a bullpen piece. Cooper says Lopez is the superior prospect to Giolito.

 

Again, this is where you pray that your baseball people know what they are doing. When it comes to young pitching, the Sox seem to be good at it.

[Con te Giolito]

Again, this is where you pray that your baseball people know what they are doing. When it comes to young pitching, the Sox seem to be good at it.

And the Nationals have yet to find a young pitcher they couldn't destroy. I really think the key with Giolito is whether the Nationals have ruined him beyond repair. The talent with him is near-generational, and he's only 22 years old, if they can even get back a fraction of what he could've been they could still have themselves a TOR starter.

[steveno89]

And the Nationals have yet to find a young pitcher they couldn't destroy. I really think the key with Giolito is whether the Nationals have ruined him beyond repair. The talent with him is near-generational, and he's only 22 years old, if they can even get back a fraction of what he could've been they could still have themselves a TOR starter.

 

Giolito is worth the gamble

 

He has been more hittable in the minors than scouts would like to see, and his K% rates are not incredible. The raw stuff though flashes a ton of potential

 

I don't think he will ever develop into an ace, but he could become a quality #2 or #3 starter. The key for him will be polish and development. A full season in AAA will do him alot of good.

[rowand's rowdies]

Just saw Matt Adams is available. Without knowing their values too much, what about more MLB ready hitting talent like Adams & Grichuk? Pair those two with Reyes for Q? Maybe we throw in Melky? Am I way off base?

[Al Lopez's Ghost]

I don't think that's the plan.

[Eminor3rd]

Just saw Matt Adams is available. Without knowing their values too much, what about more MLB ready hitting talent like Adams & Grichuk? Pair those two with Reyes for Q? Maybe we throw in Melky? Am I way off base?

 

Adams isn't really an MLB player at this point. And STL just paid a bunch of money to plug their OF hole, wouldn't make sense to open it right back up just to turn Reyes into Quintana.

[GreenSox]

Just saw Matt Adams is available. Without knowing their values too much, what about more MLB ready hitting talent like Adams & Grichuk? Pair those two with Reyes for Q? Maybe we throw in Melky? Am I way off base?

Last year it would have made sense to go after them to plug holes; it might make sense in 3 years to get similar players.

 

But they are average players with too little time left of control for it to make sense now.