Sure I can. Both things matter. How do you think teams like the Cubs draw when they suck? They draw because Wrigley is really fun. Why is it fun? They cultivated a fun atmosphere. Winning is the icing on the cake that takes it to a new level. Life is nuanced Dick Allen, not everything is as black and white as you'd like it to be.

 

Yes, you can find cheap tickets, but the entire package is expensive. The Sox need to think of creative ways to attract attendance. It's been done before.

You say they don't care about the game because they went to the game but not for the game.

 

So the result of the game shouldn't matter.

 

If it does matter, like you now claim as "icing on the cake" the White Sox won 45 out of 81 home games. You say price matters. White Sox average ticket prices are below league average. Most people who go to White Sox games have a lot of fun. Maybe before you knock it, you should try it.

I am infinitely more excited about this team with a direction that could lead somewhere than the way they have patch-worked this team the past 8 years. I'll happily go to a game in August and September to support a losing team that has a plan.

You say they don't care about the game because they went to the game but not for the game.

 

So the result of the game shouldn't matter.

 

If it does matter, like you now claim as "icing on the cake" the White Sox won 45 out of 81 home games. You say price matters. White Sox average ticket prices are below league average. Most people who go to White Sox games have a lot of fun. Maybe before you knock it, you should try it.

:lol:

:lol:

What's laughable is you think all those people who come to games with their White Sox swag on really aren't there for the game, they are there to be entertained by something else. The game may be icing on the cake. Bizarre.

 

It might be true at Wrigley Field to a certain degree. I once read a story where a big time marketing guy said they could turn the seats around and have them face away from the field and still sell out. But that is really not the case on the South side or probably anywhere else.

 

Look at how many people on this board say the Sox fans go to games when they win.

 

 

And what exactly do they do at Wrigley that creates a fun atmosphere? The vast majority of the 40k there for a game don't spend the day at the neighborhood bars.

Edited December 8, 20169 yr by Dick Allen

What's laughable is you think all those people who come to games with their White Sox swag on really aren't there for the game, they are there to be entertained by something else. The game may be icing on the cake. Bizarre.

 

Exactly. A day/night out with some friends who just like the team casually. Do some tailgating beforehand, grab some beers inside, catch up with people for a while. One of my groups of friends I associate myself with do this a couple times a year and then I don't see them again due to being busy lol but I do have other friends that are die-hard like myself that I enjoy going to games with for the games and players with.

Edited December 8, 20169 yr by soxfan2014

2017 will be brutal but Sox have a direction and that makes all the difference too me. I would rather win 60 games next year than the 75 we have been winning treading water.

Then why haven't they drawn more, and why would putting a better team out there make things better if the game didn't matter?

 

 

The last time the Sox did a total rebuild was 1987

 

attendance

1987 1,208,060

1988 1,115,749

1989 1,045,951

 

Then they won 94 games and drew 2 million in 1990.

 

They had a nice team in 1990 but the main reason they doubled the attendance from 1989 was because 1990 was the last year for old Comiskey.

The threads that have very little to do with the actual game of baseball being played are always dominated by DA.

They had a nice team in 1990 but the main reason they doubled the attendance from 1989 was because 1990 was the last year for old Comiskey.

That helped, but not to double it.

The threads that have very little to do with the actual game of baseball being played are always dominated by DA.

I'm always fascinated when the reason for attendance being so low goes from lack of consecutive playoff appearances to people really don't go for the game. They go to be entertained by something else. The Sox don't do this and even though their ticket prices are below league average, they charge way too much. Wrigley, with the highest prices in baseball do it right. They entertain the s*** out of you. I haven't been there myself in a couple of years, but something must of changed. Other than the horrible guest conductor during the 7th inning, it always seemed like a typical baseball game experience except the park is older and I can stare at weeds hiding the brick OF walls.

The patience won't last until April 1st, or until next week really. I think people confuse the small amount of people paying attention during the winter meetings to the general fanbase. It'll get ugly, and sooner than later.

 

I agree with you. This board is a small sample size of the fanbase. Much of what I have heard has been contrary to the excitement that the OP wrote.

 

A large contingency of every fan base sees things differently from the rest. They care more about the star players, the team, going to games and couldn't care less about prospects. Those people are the ones who are sad about Sale and Eaton, eventually the rest. I heard so many people call into 670/1000 that sounded genuinely depressed and since they don't follow prospects, it's confusing to them what we're doing. They just see it as get rid of the bad guys and add more good ones. Or worse, they like guys like Saladino who don't belong in a lineup everyday for a WS caliber team.

 

Using my own personal relationships as an example, my dad is old school. He doesn't care about the sabermetrics or prospects and what not. It was irrevelant to him growing up so it isn't something he proactively wants to learn. He thinks the front office kept messing up and this is the result. That group of people are the unhappy ones. They aren't going to suddenly become guys who follow prospects or dive deeper into stats - they're just going to be angry. To your point, it's going to get uglier before it gets better.

I agree with you. This board is a small sample size of the fanbase. Much of what I have heard has been contrary to the excitement that the OP wrote.

 

A large contingency of every fan base sees things differently from the rest. They care more about the star players, the team, going to games and couldn't care less about prospects. Those people are the ones who are sad about Sale and Eaton, eventually the rest. I heard so many people call into 670/1000 that sounded genuinely depressed and since they don't follow prospects, it's confusing to them what we're doing. They just see it as get rid of the bad guys and add more good ones. Or worse, they like guys like Saladino who don't belong in a lineup everyday for a WS caliber team.

 

Using my own personal relationships as an example, my dad is old school. He doesn't care about the sabermetrics or prospects and what not. It was irrevelant to him growing up so it isn't something he proactively wants to learn. He thinks the front office kept messing up and this is the result. That group of people are the unhappy ones. They aren't going to suddenly become guys who follow prospects or dive deeper into stats - they're just going to be angry. To your point, it's going to get uglier before it gets better.

 

This board will reflect the fanbase on the outside just as you are describing. Its not going to stay all sugar plums and ice cream for very long here.

I agree with you. This board is a small sample size of the fanbase. Much of what I have heard has been contrary to the excitement that the OP wrote.

 

A large contingency of every fan base sees things differently from the rest. They care more about the star players, the team, going to games and couldn't care less about prospects. Those people are the ones who are sad about Sale and Eaton, eventually the rest. I heard so many people call into 670/1000 that sounded genuinely depressed and since they don't follow prospects, it's confusing to them what we're doing. They just see it as get rid of the bad guys and add more good ones. Or worse, they like guys like Saladino who don't belong in a lineup everyday for a WS caliber team.

 

Using my own personal relationships as an example, my dad is old school. He doesn't care about the sabermetrics or prospects and what not. It was irrevelant to him growing up so it isn't something he proactively wants to learn. He thinks the front office kept messing up and this is the result. That group of people are the unhappy ones. They aren't going to suddenly become guys who follow prospects or dive deeper into stats - they're just going to be angry. To your point, it's going to get uglier before it gets better.

 

I for one may be like your dad and be "old school". He may not be as "old school" as I because I was in 7th grade for the "59 series against the LAD. I'm not much for sabermetrics but, I do know what I saw on the field the last several years and it was not pretty. Give me the prospects now and keep them coming. I'm excited to watch this rebuild and hope for the best. Hopefully RH and the FO will continue the good work. Go Sox!

Edited December 8, 20169 yr by Saufley

They had a nice team in 1990 but the main reason they doubled the attendance from 1989 was because 1990 was the last year for old Comiskey.

 

Not really. They won 94 games and were in a division race with Oakland that year. That's what really caused fans to flock to the ballpark.

 

I imagine that the Sox will draw 1.4 million this year and maybe 1.25 million the following year. I don't expect attendance to fall to 1989 levels, when the Dan Ryan was under construction and the old ballpark was falling apart. The current ballpark is in much better shape and is way more family-friendly. Season ticket sales will be in the toilet, but I imagine that the Sox will still get a semi-decent share of casual fans over the next couple of years.

 

My guess is that the Sox spend in the FA market two years from now and field a respectable (maybe 85 wins) team in 2019 and become contenders in 2020. The Cubs will be on the downswing by then and the attention and fans will begin to return.

 

Not really. They won 94 games and were in a division race with Oakland that year. That's what really caused fans to flock to the ballpark.

 

I imagine that the Sox will draw 1.4 million this year and maybe 1.25 million the following year. I don't expect attendance to fall to 1989 levels, when the Dan Ryan was under construction and the old ballpark was falling apart. The current ballpark is in much better shape and is way more family-friendly. Season ticket sales will be in the toilet, but I imagine that the Sox will still get a semi-decent share of casual fans over the next couple of years.

 

My guess is that the Sox spend in the FA market two years from now and field a respectable (maybe 85 wins) team in 2019 and become contenders in 2020. The Cubs will be on the downswing by then and the attention and fans will begin to return.

 

That is a very reasonable prediction

 

2017 / 2018 = suck big time

 

2019 = return to respectability, finish .500 or better

 

2020/2021/2022 = Window to contend

 

 

That is a very reasonable prediction

 

2017 / 2018 = suck big time

 

2019 = return to respectability, finish .500 or better

 

2020/2021/2022 = Window to contend

 

I think you are about a year quick. 2017 is a lost year, and isn't going to see most of the guys we get even get to the majors yet. That will really start to happen in 18 and 19.

He thinks the front office kept messing up and this is the result. That group of people are the unhappy ones. They aren't going to suddenly become guys who follow prospects or dive deeper into stats - they're just going to be angry. To your point, it's going to get uglier before it gets better.

Exactly. For example, last year I enjoyed Anderson's at bats very much thinking of what was to come. But by his 100th at bat, he was just another player to me. I mean I liked him more than the Melkys and those lousy hitting catchers and Avi and Frazier, etc., but it's not like I was happy beyond belief when he came to the plate. In fact, I was begging my screen to see a base on balls.

The prospects will be fun to watch, but if the team is dropping game after game, who cares? Wake me up when the prospects are contributing to wins, wins, wins.

 

Basically the only positive is this is a good time to do this. The fans and media will continue to be all over the Cubs and the Sox can continue to do their rebuild thing in the shadows while the Cub dynasty continues a few years. Hopefully in 4 years the Sox can get some attention away from the Cubs and win a division. I'm a little surprised Jerry agreed to this. Hopefully he'll remain in great health and be around when the Sox win in four years.

Edited December 8, 20169 yr by greg775

A lot of people here are failing to give Sox fans enough credit. The average White Sox fan can understand what's happening.

The Sox have never done a full tear down and rebuild in the time I've been a Sox fan (early 90s as a kid) and while there has been an obvious, overt resistance to the idea from Reinsdorf and Kenny Williams, I always sensed from other Sox fans that they felt the fanbase wouldn't want to bother with it either. But so far in the past 48 hours I've seen mostly excitement, people are ready to get this started and see it through properly. What do y'all think? Am I off base here?

 

The last total rebuild took place in the late 80s (you're lucky you missed `86-`89). Those four seasons of misery yielded four great draft picks (McDowell, Ventura, Thomas, Fernandez). Trades for guys like Lance Johnson, Wilson Alvarez, Keith Foulke, and Paul Konerko, plus a strong farm system (drafting and International signings) made the Sox the winningest team in the AL in the 1990s.

 

Somebody on ESPN 1000 (I forget who) said they haven't heard this much excitement from Sox fans in at least a decade.