FT35 Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 Get over it Houston. Geoff Blum happened...he even works for you now. It's a thing of the past and it's time to move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCsoxfan Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Jan 16, 2017 -> 02:25 PM) He has an agent. He is free to negotiate any clause he wants into his contract. Its not "fraud" because the contract is going to have a merger clause that basically says "This is the entire agreement, anything not contained in this agreement means jack s***." And if his agent isnt smart enough to understand how to negotiate and draft a contract, Ill gladly take the 1-3% of $50mil and do it for him. precisely Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hi8is Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 QUOTE (Con te Giolito @ Jan 16, 2017 -> 11:21 AM) Fangraphs chat also gave us the Levinian Robles-for-Robertson swap. They are not gods of baseball, and they often are just making s*** up in those chats. Yea... that was retard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hi8is Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 QUOTE (FT35 @ Jan 16, 2017 -> 11:28 AM) Get over it Houston. Geoff Blum happened...he even works for you now. It's a thing of the past and it's time to move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Jan 16, 2017 -> 12:51 PM) Luhnow looking more and more like a dumb dog chasing its tail. Not long ago when Luhnow didn't like Hahn's asking price for Q, he moved on to Duffy/Ventura and then a few weeks later back in discussions for Q again. Now they supposedly have their eye on Gray, lol. Go ahead Luhnow, trade for anyone of Duffy/Ventura/Gray and add them to the problematic pitchers you already have. Feel free to call the Sox when you give up on childish bluffs and your balls drop which will allow you to pony up for the best available SP on the trade market. Luhnow is only an idiot if he doesn't end up with Q. As it stands he is just a GM trying to get a great piece at his price, notice that no other team has yet so outbid HOU that they are out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Con te Giolito Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 He has an agent. He is free to negotiate any clause he wants into his contract. Its not "fraud" because the contract is going to have a merger clause that basically says "This is the entire agreement, anything not contained in this agreement means jack s***." And if his agent isnt smart enough to understand how to negotiate and draft a contract, Ill gladly take the 1-3% of $50mil and do it for him. So if a guy says he would like to sign now for a bit less than he would be able to make on the open market because he likes where he currently is and that team inked him to that deal for the sole purpose of trading his ass thats OK? That's really how you want teams to behave? Not only would the guy be getting traded, but he'd be making less than he could've if he tested the market. You do understand if this kind of situation plays out the idea of the hometown discount will completely disappear? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heirdog Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 QUOTE (FT35 @ Jan 16, 2017 -> 03:28 PM) Get over it Houston. Geoff Blum happened...he even works for you now. It's a thing of the past and it's time to move on. But Brett Myers for Heidenreich,Walters and Devenski also happened more recently so Luhnow owes us one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCsoxfan Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 (edited) QUOTE (Con te Giolito @ Jan 16, 2017 -> 02:37 PM) So if a guy says he would like to sign now for a bit less than he would be able to make on the open market because he likes where he currently is and that team inked him to that deal for the sole purpose of trading his ass thats OK? That's really how you want teams to behave? Not only would the guy be getting traded, but he'd be making less than he could've if he tested the market. You do understand if this kind of situation plays out the idea of the hometown discount will completely disappear? Nobody is saying that but things change (See Sale and Eaton), and if you don't have a no trade clause then you're fair game to be traded plain and simple. Edited January 16, 2017 by NCsoxfan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 QUOTE (bmags @ Jan 16, 2017 -> 01:36 PM) Luhnow is only an idiot if he doesn't end up with Q. As it stands he is just a GM trying to get a great piece at his price, notice that no other team has yet so outbid HOU that they are out. I don't know. They are very similar pitchers and Gray will be cheaper for the next couple of years. If the asking price is less than Q, it could be a smart deal. Provided they are confident in his recovery from injuries. That may make him an even cheaper get in regards to prospects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panerista Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 QUOTE (Con te Giolito @ Jan 16, 2017 -> 01:37 PM) So if a guy says he would like to sign now for a bit less than he would be able to make on the open market because he likes where he currently is and that team inked him to that deal for the sole purpose of trading his ass thats OK? That's really how you want teams to behave? Not only would the guy be getting traded, but he'd be making less than he could've if he tested the market. You do understand if this kind of situation plays out the idea of the hometown discount will completely disappear? Business of the game. No one forced anyone to sign any contracts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pablo Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 QUOTE (NCsoxfan @ Jan 16, 2017 -> 01:42 PM) Nobody is saying that but things change (See Sale and Eaton), and if you don't have a no trade clause then you're fair game to be traded plain and simple. Agreed. It takes two sides to make a deal. Seems like Duffy understood his injury history and wanted to sign a contract before something might have happened again. It was either sign now or bet on yourself to replicate last year again. I am sure either Duffy or his agent has an idea there is a chance he could be traded if things don't go as planned this year for KC. Lorenzo Cain is in the same situation with his contract, but he must want to test out free agency. I don't see how this is bad or fraudelent on the Royals part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beautox Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 Also from that same chat 1:24 Pedro Is The Future: What would you expect a deal between the Pirates and White Sox for Quintana to look like? 1:24 Travis Sawchik: I think it probably begins with Meadows or Bell and includes Glasnow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 (edited) A's won't sell him discounted after an injury plagued year. His value is at its lowest. And to try to get a team from your own division to trade you a starter, it should take more. There are other alternatives to Q like Archer and Gray, but those 2 are coming off down years where it wouldn't be wise to trade them now. They will hold onto them and let them rebuild value. Edited January 16, 2017 by soxfan2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunt Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Jan 16, 2017 -> 01:55 PM) A's won't sell him discounted. His value is at his lowest. And to try to get a team to trade a pitcher to you to help you out, it should take more. Especially in division Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 QUOTE (Dunt @ Jan 16, 2017 -> 01:55 PM) Especially in division I meant to include that in that last second but re-reading it now, the sentence is structured horribly lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beautox Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 QUOTE (Dunt @ Jan 16, 2017 -> 01:55 PM) Especially in division I agree they would demand the same alleged package the Astro's were offering for Archer, and again he has just as many health issues as the rest of their rotation and only has three years of control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FT35 Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Jan 16, 2017 -> 02:55 PM) A's won't sell him discounted after an injury plagued year. His value is at its lowest. And to try to get a team from your own division to trade you a started, it should take more. Exactly...he's worth more to the A's if there's a discount of any kind involved! #moneyball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Edwards Shot Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 (edited) QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jan 15, 2017 -> 09:42 PM) Moving Rodon now makes ZERO sense unless the offers are more for him than Q (and the odds of that are what?)...but he's one really solid season away from his value skyrocketing. Obviously, he could go town with TJS as well, but the only reason this even gets mentioned at all is because of Boras and the fact we know that Carlos is incredibly UNLIKELY to sign an extension into his FA years. I'm not up to date on current events, I apologize. Why would we be looking to deal Rodon at all, even next year? He's a young 24 year old kid with #1 or #2 stuff who gets paid very little. Isn't that the kind of player you rebuild with and keep around? Is it just because Boras is his agent? I don't get why the White Sox are absolutely unable to deal with any Boras clients. Isn't that position a bit antiquated nowadays and part of an ancient personal feud between Reinsdorf and Boras? If there's no way the Sox can deal with Boras for whatever reason then they should stop drafting Boras clients. Don't even go down that road from the very beginning... Edited January 16, 2017 by Doc Edwards Shot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 (edited) QUOTE (Doc Edwards Shot @ Jan 16, 2017 -> 02:31 PM) I'm not up to date on current events, I apologize. Why would we be looking to deal Rodon at all, even next year? He's a young 24 year old kid with #1 or #2 stuff who gets paid very little. Isn't that the kind of player you rebuild with and keep around? Is it just because Boras is his agent? I don't get why the White Sox are absolutely unable to deal with any Boras clients. Isn't that position a bit antiquated nowadays and part of an ancient personal feud between Reinsdorf and Boras? If there's no way the Sox can deal with Boras for whatever reason then they should stop drafting Boras clients. Don't even go down that road from the very beginning... The best of the best Boras clients always go to FA......If you believe in Rodon,you believe he will be an ace, a bonafide #1. If that is the case, he's most definitely going to FA. That is why you trade him. Also, his control window is 1 year more than Quintana IIRC, so if it makes sense that the Sox' contention window does not include Quintana, then it does not include Rodon either. Quintana is signed through 2020, Rodon is under control through 2021 so the window really is not there. IMO Hahn should wait to trade him until he is an established TOR guy, then pounce similar to Sale. Edited January 16, 2017 by Elgin Slim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCsoxfan Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 QUOTE (Elgin Slim @ Jan 16, 2017 -> 03:50 PM) The best of the best Boras clients always go to FA......If you believe in Rodon,you believe he will be an ace, a bonafide #1. If that is the case, he's most definitely going to FA. That is why you trade him. Also, his control window is 1 year more than Quintana, so if it makes sense that the Sox' contention window does not include Quintana, then it does not include Rodon either. Quintana is signed through 2020, Rodon is under control through 2021 so the window really is not there. IMO Hahn should wait to trade him until he is an established TOR guy, then pounce similar to Sale. If you believe he's going to be an ace, then you wait until he's an ace to trade him, not trade him now for other prospects with similar amount of control/risk. There's really no good reason to trade him unless you're very bearish on him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveno89 Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 QUOTE (Elgin Slim @ Jan 16, 2017 -> 02:50 PM) The best of the best Boras clients always go to FA......If you believe in Rodon,you believe he will be an ace, a bonafide #1. If that is the case, he's most definitely going to FA. That is why you trade him. Also, his control window is 1 year more than Quintana IIRC, so if it makes sense that the Sox' contention window does not include Quintana, then it does not include Rodon either. Quintana is signed through 2020, Rodon is under control through 2021 so the window really is not there. IMO Hahn should wait to trade him until he is an established TOR guy, then pounce similar to Sale. Rodon would not return nearly the same level of prospects as Quintana would. Sox will keep Rodon and look to build around him. He is still under team control for five more seasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 QUOTE (NCsoxfan @ Jan 16, 2017 -> 02:54 PM) If you believe he's going to be an ace, then you wait until he's an ace to trade him, not trade him now for other prospects with similar amount of control/risk. There's really no good reason to trade him unless you're very bearish on him. QUOTE (steveno89 @ Jan 16, 2017 -> 02:57 PM) Rodon would not return nearly the same level of prospects as Quintana would. Sox will keep Rodon and look to build around him. He is still under team control for five more seasons. He wasn't suggesting to trade him now, guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 QUOTE (NCsoxfan @ Jan 16, 2017 -> 02:54 PM) If you believe he's going to be an ace, then you wait until he's an ace to trade him, not trade him now for other prospects with similar amount of control/risk. There's really no good reason to trade him unless you're very bearish on him. I agree, and said so in my post. BUT, if Hahn believes he's going to be a guy who always looks like he should be an ace based on stuff, but has mid rotation results(2-3 fWAR) then he should pounce now before he has a track record of solid, but unspectacular performance. - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 QUOTE (Con te Giolito @ Jan 16, 2017 -> 01:37 PM) So if a guy says he would like to sign now for a bit less than he would be able to make on the open market because he likes where he currently is and that team inked him to that deal for the sole purpose of trading his ass thats OK? That's really how you want teams to behave? Not only would the guy be getting traded, but he'd be making less than he could've if he tested the market. You do understand if this kind of situation plays out the idea of the hometown discount will completely disappear? What I do understand about the situation is that when you are signing a multi-million dollar contract, you arent some sort of underprivileged person who cant afford to hire an attorney. If the player/agent care enough about whatever issue you are raising, then put it into the contract. No trade clause, etc, are all ways the player can protect their rights if it means that much to them. Again he is about to make $50mil, if he or his agent (who is likely getting paid at least $500k for this contract) dont negotiate it well, I really have 0 sympathy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 QUOTE (NCsoxfan @ Jan 16, 2017 -> 02:54 PM) If you believe he's going to be an ace, then you wait until he's an ace to trade him, not trade him now for other prospects with similar amount of control/risk. There's really no good reason to trade him unless you're very bearish on him. This. Trading Rodon now would be idiotic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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