Robertson to WASH was close, now at stalemate

[BlackSox13]

Just to be clear, nobody is saying Robertson for Severino straight up. It's just that some of us want Severino as part of the return for Robertson.

[harfman77]

Why would the Sox want Derek Norris? Severino is a good get. If you can pair him with someone like Voth, Stevenson or Neuse, it's a fair deal. Soto would seem off the table unless we are picking up a majority of the DRob contract

 

Norris could be valuable in helping the young pitchers on staff in providing a good framer and calls a pretty solid game. Norris was the number one catching prospect in baseball not too long ago, and still has some upside. If he puts his offense together, you are looking at a huge trade chip. That said, I would still rather have Severino given their contract status.

[harfman77]

Just to be clear, nobody is saying Robertson for Severino straight up. It's just that some of us want Severino as part of the return for Robertson.

 

MLBTR is saying the Sox will eat money to get Severino for Robertson, so it sounds like it would be pretty much a straight up deal.

[harfman77]

I'd only consider Severino for Robertson if the Nationals ate the entire remaining contract

 

Even then, I don't love the deal and think we should look to get more out of the Nationals

 

The Sox aren't getting any more out of the Nationals, their fanbase is already got the torches and pitchforks out over the Eaton deal, which is probably what killed the Robertson deal a few weeks ago. Nats ownership is very sensitive to the fanbase's perspective that they are getting fleeced. If it was any other team, I think you could get more.

[Buehrlesque]

Robertson +$5 mil for Norris, Soto and Kieboom

 

Not sure if the Nats would do it (probably not, considering their aversion to trading prospects now), but worth asking. They get Norris' salary entirely off the books, and get a discount on Robertson. In return, they have to give up two significant prospects.

[Buehrlesque]

The Sox aren't getting any more out of the Nationals, their fanbase is already got the torches and pitchforks out over the Eaton deal, which is probably what killed the Robertson deal a few weeks ago. Nats ownership is very sensitive to the fanbase's perspective that they are getting fleeced. If it was any other team, I think you could get more.

If that's the case, I don't see why the Sox would try to work out a Robertson deal with the Nationals at all. At that point I'd just wait til midseason and find a different taker.

[BlackSox13]

MLBTR is saying the Sox will eat money to get Severino for Robertson, so it sounds like it would be pretty much a straight up deal.

You could be right. I had not read the blurb on mlbtr until after I wrote the post you quoted. Perhaps I'm overestimating Robertson's value ( not expecting alot to be honest) or underestimating Severino's. Kind of torn now. I really like Severino but somehow feel the Sox should get another piece if they are eating some money.

[Quin]

MLBTR is saying the Sox will eat money to get Severino for Robertson, so it sounds like it would be pretty much a straight up deal.

 

I'm completely OK with this.

 

Like I said earlier, people wanted Robertson cut/salary dumped. To get a young, defensive catcher to add to Narvaez (who could have a solid backup career) and Collins would be great for Robertson.

 

Plus it gets Jones in the closer role from the get-go, setting him up to bring in a deadline haul.

[Buehrlesque]

 

I'm completely OK with this.

 

Like I said earlier, people wanted Robertson cut/salary dumped. To get a young, defensive catcher to add to Narvaez (who could have a solid backup career) and Collins would be great for Robertson.

 

Plus it gets Jones in the closer role from the get-go, setting him up to bring in a deadline haul.

I disagree. I'd be significantly disappointed in that return. Teams fall all over themselves to make silly trades for relievers in season. Missing out on a back up catcher is a risk I'm willing to take.

[Quin]

I disagree. I'd be significantly disappointed in that return. Teams fall all over themselves to make silly trades for relievers in season. Missing out on a back up catcher is a risk I'm willing to take.

 

My counter point is that raising Jones' value while removing the risk of Robertson's 2016 not being an aberration helps balance it out.

[southsider2k5]

Robertson +$5 mil for Norris, Soto and Kieboom

 

Not sure if the Nats would do it (probably not, considering their aversion to trading prospects now), but worth asking. They get Norris' salary entirely off the books, and get a discount on Robertson. In return, they have to give up two significant prospects.

 

That seems WAY high for a return.

[southsider2k5]

I'm completely OK with this.

 

Like I said earlier, people wanted Robertson cut/salary dumped. To get a young, defensive catcher to add to Narvaez (who could have a solid backup career) and Collins would be great for Robertson.

 

Plus it gets Jones in the closer role from the get-go, setting him up to bring in a deadline haul.

 

And not only a good defensive catcher, but a good framer and a guy who supposedly pitchers like throwing to. That could be big for a really young pitching staff.

[southsider2k5]

I disagree. I'd be significantly disappointed in that return. Teams fall all over themselves to make silly trades for relievers in season. Missing out on a back up catcher is a risk I'm willing to take.

 

The relievers that teams go silly over are on another level than Robertson, even if he hadn't had last year happen.

[Soha]

My counter point is that raising Jones' value while removing the risk of Robertson's 2016 not being an aberration helps balance it out.

 

Or nuking Jones' value. We've seen relievers who are great setup men, then fall on their face when put in the position to close. They say it's a completely different mindset. Matt Thornton comes to mind in recent Sox history as someone who fell off a cliff when put in the position to close.

[Buehrlesque]

My counter point is that raising Jones' value while removing the risk of Robertson's 2016 not being an aberration helps balance it out.

Jones' value could remain super high in an Andrew Miller-type role.

[BlackSox13]

Starting to doubt Robertson will have more value at the deadline. Teams are more desperate at the deadline but by then Robertson will only be a 2-3 month rental. As others have pointed out, Robertson right now is not in the same tier that Chapman, Miller and Giles were at the time of their trades so we can't really use those trades to try and gauge Robertson's current value.

 

If my doubts are correct then trading Robertson now would be the preferred time and allow Jones to become the closer with hopes of boosting his value even more for the July deadline. It's a risk a rebuilding team like the Sox can take.

[YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES!]

Starting to doubt Robertson will have more value at the deadline. Teams are more desperate at the deadline but by then Robertson will only be a 2-3 month rental. As others have pointed out, Robertson right now is not in the same tier that Chapman, Miller and Giles were at the time of their trades so we can't really use those trades to try and gauge Robertson's current value.

 

If my doubts are correct then trading Robertson now would be the preferred time and allow Jones to become the closer with hopes of boosting his value even more for the July deadline. It's a risk a rebuilding team like the Sox can take.

Robertson is controlled through 2018 I believe.

[BlackSox13]

Robertson is controlled through 2018 I believe.

You're right, thanks Mike. For some reason I thought he had signed a three year contract like Melky.

 

Now I'm even more confused on when to trade Robertson.

Edited February 22, 2017 by BlackSox13

[YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES!]

You're right, thanks Mike. For some reason I thought he had signed a three year contract like Melky.

 

Now I'm even more confused on when to trade Robertson.

I don't know either, lol.

 

What I do know, however, is that the Sox shouldn't trade Robertson for Severino straight up, even if Washington eats all the salary. I think Robertson is worth more than that.

[Bob Sacamano]

If the best they can do right now is Severino for Robertson straight up (not saying that is the case but just throwing out there), then wait. It's not like that offer wouldn't be possible in June/July.

[BlackSox13]

I don't know either, lol.

 

What I do know, however, is that the Sox shouldn't trade Robertson for Severino straight up, even if Washington eats all the salary. I think Robertson is worth more than that.

I'm straddling the fence right now. Half of me says take the trade straight up to get Jones into the closers role now and trade Jones in July. The other half of me thinks the Sox should hold out in hope of Robertson having a good first half to get even more for him in July, then plug Jones into the closers role and trade him for a haul next winter. The latter is more risky but has more potential for a higher return.

 

Glad I'm not Rick Hahn.

[Bob Sacamano]

I'm straddling the fence right now. Half of me says take the trade straight up to get Jones into the closers role now and trade Jones in July. The other half of me thinks the Sox should hold out in hope of Robertson having a good first half to get even more for him in July, then plug Jones into the closers role and trade him for a haul next winter. The latter is more risky but has more potential for a higher return.

 

Glad I'm not Rick Hahn.

 

Jones will still be valuable with 3.5+ years of control left. You can hold onto Robertson for the first few months and trade him. Jones could also be pitching very well and could be moved around then. Or he stays as closer the rest of the season and is moved in the off-season or traded deadline of 2018.

[BlackSox13]

Jones will still be valuable with 3.5+ years of control left. You can hold onto Robertson for the first few months and trade him. Jones could also be pitching very well and could be moved around then. Or he stays as closer the rest of the season and is moved in the off-season or traded deadline of 2018.

I hear you. The second scenerio is more about trying to maximize the return for both players. If Robertson has a good first half he could net a bit more in July and If Jones can succeed as a closer the few last months of the season, the Sox could get more for him as a closer next winter than as a setup arm at the deadline. This would be the best way to maximize the trade value of both pitchers but is also more risky.

 

Like I said, I'm glad I'm not Rick Hahn right now, lol.

[tray]

Teams that are going for it make trades in large measure based on what they need to have.

The greater and more imminent that need is, the more they will give up in return. If the Nat's relief core starts blowing games they may have to cough up Robles for a reliever or relievers.

Well OK, Robertson plus Nate Jones won't be enough to get Robles, but if the Nats get desperate for a Closer, they are going to have to unload talent to some team at some point, especially if they want a Closer that is ranked higher than Robertson. It's their problem, not Rick Hahn's. He already schtooped them. If they want it again, call Rick.

[oldsox]

Teams that are going for it make trades in large measure based on what they need to have.

The greater and more imminent that need is, the more they will give up in return. If the Nat's relief core starts blowing games they may have to cough up Robles for a reliever or relievers.

Well OK, Robertson plus Nate Jones won't be enough to get Robles, but if the Nats get desperate for a Closer, they are going to have to unload talent to some team at some point, especially if they want a Closer that is ranked higher than Robertson. It's their problem, not Rick Hahn's. He already schtooped them. If they want it again, call Rick.

One of my new favorite words.......