Gun Violence in America

[RockRaines]

Instead of arming teachers, why not let the retired vets do the job? I bet they’d be way more than happy to each take a day per week protecting their community schools. Then we honor them and s*** and it’s all good.

With what money? What’s the selection process? Will we finally provide adequate mental health care for them before trusting them to be armed guards in school?

 

Will we then have them guard concerts, movie theaters and upper educational institutions as well?

[Kyyle23]

Instead of arming teachers, why not let the retired vets do the job? I bet they’d be way more than happy to each take a day per week protecting their community schools. Then we honor them and s*** and it’s all good.

 

This idea is just crazy and I’m pretty sure you know that. Let’s put guys, many of whom already have problems with ptsd and issues integrating back into society, into a school with a directive to protect against a possible school shooter. What happens if one of them sees something that isn’t there and opens fire on the kids? Are we going to vet all of them for mental health? Because that seems to be quite an issue right now with normal people, much less trained war veterans. I don’t want my kids going to school where someone with a gun is patrolling the halls at all times comparing it to a war

 

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2018/02...rd-schools.html

[Dick Allen]

This idea is just crazy and I’m pretty sure you know that. Let’s put guys, many of whom already have problems with ptsd and issues integrating back into society, into a school with a directive to protect against a possible school shooter. What happens if one of them sees something that isn’t there and opens fire on the kids? Are we going to vet all of them for mental health? Because that seems to be quite an issue right now with normal people, much less trained war veterans. I don’t want my kids going to school where someone with a gun is patrolling the halls at all times comparing it to a war

 

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2018/02...rd-schools.html

I agree with this. And I still don’t know how one person is going to protect a whole school. Once he or she is taken out, it’s, over.

 

Ban AR 15s. Sorry gun enthusiasts, you can still shoot your guns, just not these. These idiots ruined it for you. Deal with it. You deal with taking your shoes and belt off and getting groped when you fly. You deal with having to light up your cigarettes outside. You deal with being forced to wear a seat belt in a car, and wearing a helmet when riding a motorcycle. And you do so because they all make common sense. Just like taking these weapons away.

[caulfield12]

I agree with this. And I still don’t know how one person is going to protect a whole school. Once he or she is taken out, it’s, over.

 

Ban AR 15s. Sorry gun enthusiasts, you can still shoot your guns, just not these. These idiots ruined it for you. Deal with it. You deal with taking your shoes and belt off and getting groped when you fly. You deal with having to light up your cigarettes outside. You deal with being forced to wear a seat belt in a car, and wearing a helmet when riding a motorcycle. And you do so because they all make common sense. Just like taking these weapons away.

 

https://lifehacker.com/what-are-the-assault...arco-1823227038

 

The Rubio solution...make this issue seem so complicated there’s no point even attempting it.

 

Some points are valid, doesn't mean they couldn't do it.

 

Fred Guttenberg, the father of one of the students murdered in the shooting, confronted Rubio for going against the proposed state ban on many semiautomatic guns and large capacity magazines. This ban included popular models like the Kalashnikov AK-47, Sig Sauer MCX, and several versions of the AR-15,the type of rifle used by Nikolas Cruz to kill 17 people last week. Here’s how Rubio responded:

 

But I want to explain to you for a moment the problem with the law that they call the Assault Weapon’s Ban. And if you’ll give me — and indulge me for a minute to explain to you the problem. First you have to define what it is. If you look at the law and it’s definition, it basically bans 200 models of gun - - about 220 specific models of gun... But it makes - - but it - - but it - - it allows legal 2,000 other types of gun that are identical. Identical, in the way that they function and how fast they fire and the type of caliber that they fire and the way they perform. They’re indistinguishable from the ones that become illegal (later he says they could do the exact same thing as the gun used Marjory Stoneman Douglas). And the only thing that separates the two types - - the only thing that separates the two types is, if you put a plastic handle grip on one it becomes banned, if it doesn’t have a plastic handle it does not become banned...”

 

This drew boos and jeers from the crowd, but he’s not exactly wrong. Basically, Rubio said that while the ban would affect several types of popular assault weapons right from the get-go, it would only be the tip of the iceberg. Why? Because of gun mods and how easy they are to be added or removed from a rifle, and because of the gun industry itself. Rubio goes on to explain that similar assault weapon bans essentially failed in both New York and California. For example, the California assault weapons ban required owners of designated assault weapons to either give up their guns or register them with the state. But there’s a third secret option that completely goes around these laws entirely: removing the features that make the rifle an “assault weapon.” These features include:

 

4 different categories related to pistol grips, vertical grips, flash suppressors and collapsible stocks...

 

 

Edited February 25, 2018 by caulfield12

[Chicago White Sox]

Sounds like a lot of work to redefine “assault weapons”, I wouldn’t want to put that much responsibility on our government’s plate when they’re doing such a fantastic job keeping our country safe.

Edited February 25, 2018 by Chicago White Sox

[Jerksticks]

This idea is just crazy and I’m pretty sure you know that. Let’s put guys, many of whom already have problems with ptsd and issues integrating back into society, into a school with a directive to protect against a possible school shooter. What happens if one of them sees something that isn’t there and opens fire on the kids? Are we going to vet all of them for mental health? Because that seems to be quite an issue right now with normal people, much less trained war veterans. I don’t want my kids going to school where someone with a gun is patrolling the halls at all times comparing it to a war

 

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2018/02...rd-schools.html

 

 

I didn’t know that idea was suggested already. I’m just saying let the men and women of the local towns volunteer to guard the schools. I think we’d be surprised how many flock to volunteer for a noble cause. It wouldn’t be 1 person per day. I bet you’d get 10’s of volunteers daily depending on the location. Maybe PTSD vets is a bad idea.

[Middle Buffalo]

I agree with this. And I still don’t know how one person is going to protect a whole school. Once he or she is taken out, it’s, over.

This doesn't solve the problem, either. The gunman will just move on to the next place that has a crowd of people and open fire. We've seen it at churches. Should we arm the pastor? We've seen it at a movie theater. Arm the popcorn guy? We've seen it at a night club. Arm the bouncers? Saw it in Vegas, and there aren't too many places with more security and surveillance than a casino.

 

The psychos now have a template. Buy powerful weapons that can fire off rounds in rapid succession, go to a crowded place where people are corralled, and open fire.

 

It's unrealistic to hire enough security to prevent this if the weapons are available. So, we have to eliminate the access.

Edited February 25, 2018 by Middle Buffalo

[southsider2k5]

Instead of arming teachers, why not let the retired vets do the job? I bet they'd be way more than happy to each take a day per week protecting their community schools. Then we honor them and s*** and it's all good.

 

If it involves more funding or volunteers, forget it. Schools have been begging for both for decades, and have gotten not enough of either.

[southsider2k5]

It makes it even harder to run with the narrative of trusting unqualified people with a gun as the means of stopping something like this.

 

Actually it makes it much easier, as those who are qualified and trusted are failing.

[StrangeSox]

Or maybe the solution isn't "more guns!"

 

We're also talking about schools, but that's not the only place mass shootings happen.

[Dick Allen]

Actually it makes it much easier, as those who are qualified and trusted are failing.

Their training was most likely lacking. I believe the town was called one of the safest in th country so their law enforcement is probably like Andy Taylor in Mayberry. And the odds of your school being attacked are pretty small, so the SRO more than likely was not nearly as on guard as he would have needed to be , which is human nature. If he was on guard all the time at a miminal threat place, most probably wouldn’t want him around their kids. If it so easy to arm and train teachers properly, why don’t we use the funds and train the people paid to protect not just students, but all of us properly? And do them a favor and cut back on guns, and make it more difficult to get one? Trump was all over increasing the age to purchase, but quickly changed the subject when he found out the NRA was not on board. I wonder what happened to his deal where he couldn’t be influenced by special interest money.

 

 

[Texsox]

I dont think that would be possible, there would need to be a standardized training program as well as a standard issue weapon and weapon container. Not to mention the increased insurance premiums.

 

At least here in Texas there are already conceal carry classes that could be used as the training.

[Texsox]

Teaching and attending school in a prison environment is a huge step back.

[RockRaines]

Actually it makes it much easier, as those who are qualified and trusted are failing.

So the narrative is people who havent trained would be better suited to doing what professionals couldnt do? Makes total sense

[RockRaines]

At least here in Texas there are already conceal carry classes that could be used as the training.

I've taken and completed the training. I wouldnt feel comfortable arming myself to defend hundreds of children in a school setting with that amount of training.

[caulfield12]

Jefferson's 'tree of liberty' and the blood of schoolchildren

https://www.yahoo.com/news/jeffersons-tree-...-171918999.html

 

 

 

 

 

[southsider2k5]

Their training was most likely lacking. I believe the town was called one of the safest in th country so their law enforcement is probably like Andy Taylor in Mayberry. And the odds of your school being attacked are pretty small, so the SRO more than likely was not nearly as on guard as he would have needed to be , which is human nature. If he was on guard all the time at a miminal threat place, most probably wouldn't want him around their kids. If it so easy to arm and train teachers properly, why don't we use the funds and train the people paid to protect not just students, but all of us properly? And do them a favor and cut back on guns, and make it more difficult to get one? Trump was all over increasing the age to purchase, but quickly changed the subject when he found out the NRA was not on board. I wonder what happened to his deal where he couldn't be influenced by special interest money.

 

I don't know if there are stats on this, but I feel like this is exactly where these types of incidents happen most often. I don't recall this really happening in poorer and more urban school systems. It is typically in richer/whiter communities.

[southsider2k5]

So the narrative is people who havent trained would be better suited to doing what professionals couldnt do? Makes total sense

 

And to keep trusting the people who are telling you to trust them to keep you safe apparently.

[RockRaines]

And to keep trusting the people who are telling you to trust them to keep you safe apparently.

So, dont trust law enforcement anymore, train everyone to be a law enforcement officer in a crisis?

[StrangeSox]

It's a great way of dumping the responsibility on the potential victims.

[Dick Allen]

I don't know if there are stats on this, but I feel like this is exactly where these types of incidents happen most often. I don't recall this really happening in poorer and more urban school systems. It is typically in richer/whiter communities.

Probably. It's an easier target. And while I doubt most school guards would be totally prepared for an attack, if it happened in a less sleepy community, I'm pretty sure the police reaction would have been much better.

 

I just don't know if you really want all these armed guards surrounding a school, with teachers packing guns. It makes for a very stressful environment. And if they ultimately made these schools like that, while it may stop the shootings in school during the school day, what's next? Mall, movie theater, concert, sporting event, large party. There is always going to be a situation very vulnerable.

 

At the very least, is it too much to ask these politicians to tell the NRA to f*** off, you have to be 21 to buy a gun?

Edited February 26, 2018 by Dick Allen

[southsider2k5]

So, dont trust law enforcement anymore, train everyone to be a law enforcement officer in a crisis?

 

Law enforcement failed these children literally at every single stage of this incident. We keep getting told to report, report, report. All of the reporting here worked out to 17 kids dead. Kind of hard to have faith in that system that seems to be taking agents buying lunches for families of potential NBA players more seriously than essentially domestic terrorism.

[southsider2k5]

It's a great way of dumping the responsibility on the potential victims.

 

Unless the FBI and police are who you are calling victims here, you are full of it.

[StrangeSox]

Again, It's Not Just Schools

 

All of the potentially dumb and awful things that could result from turning every school into a heavily armed prison camp aside, it still only addresses one particular location for a mass shooting. It does nothing about work place shootings, concerts, churches, night clubs or any other public venue.

[StrangeSox]

Unless the FBI and police are who you are calling victims here, you are full of it.

 

That's honestly how I see a post-"arm-the-teachers!"-school-shooting playing out. I don't think you'd do that, but I think that'd be the excuse a lot of people who oppose ever doing anything about restricting guns would turn to. It's not like we don't see that playing out in similar responsibility-offloading situations again and again.

 

What, nobody in the school was armed? Well, we gave Mr. Dead Teacher the opportunity to arm himself to protect him and his students. He must not have valued their lives very much! Let's arm more teachers and talk about Mental Illness, something that's definitely relevant in all mass shootings and will actually have good faith proposals for addressing.

 

Law enforcement failed these children literally at every single stage of this incident. We keep getting told to report, report, report. All of the reporting here worked out to 17 kids dead. Kind of hard to have faith in that system that seems to be taking agents buying lunches for families of potential NBA players more seriously than essentially domestic terrorism.

 

The FBI is really good at entrapping people in schemes that the FBI cooks up in the first place. Not so great at proactively finding and stopping people plotting on their own.

Edited February 26, 2018 by StrangeSox