Moncada

[ptatc]

10 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

This seems obvious to me.  The way to take less third strikes is to swing at them.  While he will still miss some, a percentage of those pitches will turn into balls in play.  Even if that number is super-small at say 20%, with as many times as he has taken a third strike, that is a significant bump up for his hitting numbers (BA/OBP/SLG etc) which is he currently getting zeros for, and it also takes a big chunk out of his K%.  The kid could literally push to an .800 OPS player by swinging at more pitches close to the strike zone, and nothing else.

In otherwords some pitches are too close to take, even if he thinks it's a ball.

[Flash]

8 minutes ago, Jose Abreu said:

I'd consider a 2-3 WAR season from a 23 year old second baseman pretty solid. 

Whether it is or not, its not cause for the irrational exuberance that has people making assinine claims about his trade value. 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

Just now, Jose Abreu said:

I'd consider a 2-3 WAR season from a 23 year old second baseman pretty solid. 

Where exactly is he/you getting that WAR from ? Batting average low, strikeouts extremely high OPS hovering around .700, errors very high. Is it all coming from walks , his range , base running skills ? You would think a team full of Moncada's at this point in his career wouldn't be a very good team/ lineup but on the other hand you'd think a team lineup filled with all 2-3 WAR guys would be pretty decent .

I understand sticking up for the guy, I do. Choke full of potential but the constant using of WAR to defend him  seems out of place when at the moment he isn't a very good baseball player. WAR seems to have some inherent flaws if this is what a 2-3 WAR guy looks like.

[Chicago White Sox]

5 minutes ago, Flash said:

Whether it is or not, its not cause for the irrational exuberance that has people making assinine claims about his trade value. 

I have no idea what this post actually means, but you are the one who made assinine claims about his trade value when you asked if he could return a 55 FV prospect.  Stop and think for a minute before you keep going down this path.

[Jose Abreu]

14 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Where exactly is he/you getting that WAR from ? Batting average low, strikeouts extremely high OPS hovering around .700, errors very high. Is it all coming from walks , his range , base running skills ? You would think a team full of Moncada's at this point in his career wouldn't be a very good team/ lineup but on the other hand you'd think a team lineup filled with all 2-3 WAR guys would be pretty decent .

 I understand sticking up for the guy, I do. Choke full of potential but the constant using of WAR to defend him  seems out of place when at the moment he isn't a very good baseball player. WAR seems to have some inherent flaws if this is what a 2-3 WAR guy looks like.

If you want to read a lot, here is a link that explains it in-depth. I personally prefer Baseball-Reference WAR for position players to Fangraphs WAR for position players.

 

In a nutshell, I would assume that a lot of it offensively is coming from the combination of walks, home runs, and baserunning value. Defensively, his range is among the top second basemen in the league, and it makes up for a lot of the errors he has made on easier plays.

Edited August 4, 2018 by Jose Abreu

[Flash]

1 minute ago, Chicago White Sox said:

I have no idea what this post actually means, but you are the one who made assinine claims about his trade value when you asked if he could return a 55 FV prospect.  Stop and think for a minute before you keep going down this path.

Do you think Toronto would trade Vlad Guerrero Jr. for Moncada? Stop and think for a minute before responding.

[Jose Abreu]

And for what it's worth, I know that WAR is a flawed stat and I try my best not to overuse it. But it happens to be one of the advanced stats that shows Moncada in a more positive light. While the strikeouts and errors are frustrating, he has still been a net positive for the team this year, and it's nice to see a statistic reflect that. His range, specifically, is really overlooked at times. UZR hates him, DRS is lukewarm on him, but the range stats love him. 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

Just now, Jose Abreu said:

That's a loaded question- if you want to read a lot, here is a link that explains it in-depth. I personally prefer Baseball-Reference WAR for position players to Fangraphs WAR for position players.

 

In a nutshell, I would assume that a lot of it offensively is coming from the combination of walks, home runs, and baserunning value. Defensively, his range is among the top second basemen in the league, and it makes up for a lot of the errors he has made on easier plays.

I really didn't mean it to be loaded. I mean I understand his range and base running skills walks etc contribute to it or else I wouldn't have mentioned them.I suppose you are extrapolating a full season from where his current WAR is ? I just wanted you to tell me if you might agree that a WAR based on those skills is really not that impressive when you throw in the other negative things about him . Plus there's also a big difference between a 2 and a 3 WAR player so there's that also.

[footlongcomiskeydog]

12 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Where exactly is he/you getting that WAR from ? Batting average low, strikeouts extremely high OPS hovering around .700, errors very high. Is it all coming from walks , his range , base running skills ? You would think a team full of Moncada's at this point in his career wouldn't be a very good team/ lineup but on the other hand you'd think a team lineup filled with all 2-3 WAR guys would be pretty decent .

I understand sticking up for the guy, I do. Choke full of potential but the constant using of WAR to defend him  seems out of place when at the moment he isn't a very good baseball player. WAR seems to have some inherent flaws if this is what a 2-3 WAR guy looks like.

Welcome to the golden age of analytics in baseball where you can pretty much just cherry pick stats to make your case. 

Moncada's wRC+ is currently below 100. Heavy hitters like Alen Hansen are outperforming him in that metric. 

His advanced fielding stats like DRS and UZR are also terrible.

Pick and choose... 

[Jose Abreu]

2 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

I really didn't mean it to be loaded. I mean I understand his range and base running skills walks etc contribute to it or else I wouldn't have mentioned them.I suppose you are extrapolating a full season from where his current WAR is ? I just wanted you to tell me if you might agree that a WAR based on those skills is really not that impressive when you throw in the other negative things about him . Plus there's also a big difference between a 2 and a 3 WAR player so there's that also.

Loaded was probably the wrong word, my bad- and yes, I am extrapolating the current number to a full season. As of now he's at a 1.8 bWAR at 100 games so a full season would place him at about 2.9 bWAR. 

I wouldn't call it unimpressive- underwhelming, maybe? But then again, chances are that he'll improve as he matures. 

[Jose Abreu]

1 minute ago, footlongcomiskeydog said:

Welcome to the golden age of analytics in baseball where you can pretty much just cherry pick stats to make your case. 

 Moncada's wRC+ is currently below 100. Heavy hitters like Alen Hansen are outperforming him in that metric. 

 His advanced fielding stats like DRS and UZR are also terrible.

 Pick and choose... 

Right on cue, here's Tom to derail a civil, productive discussion, all the while being guilty of the very thing he's accusing me of doing. It's shameless trolling at this point, and it's quite unfortunate that one poster has singlehandedly lowered the bar for quality of discourse throughout the entire site.

[footlongcomiskeydog]

9 minutes ago, Flash said:

Do you think Toronto would trade Vlad Guerrero Jr. for Moncada? Stop and think for a minute before responding.

No they would most certainly not. Not even Moncada and Kopech would be enough to get Vladdy JR. 

Moncada alone couldn't even net you Tatis JR at this point but in Hahn we trust lol. 

[footlongcomiskeydog]

3 minutes ago, Jose Abreu said:

Right on cue, here's Tom to derail a civil, productive discussion, all the while being guilty of the very thing he's accusing me of doing. It's shameless trolling at this point, and it's quite unfortunate that one poster has singlehandedly lowered the bar for quality of discourse throughout the entire site.

Who in the hell is Tom? 

Everyone on this board is guilty of cherry picking facts to suit their narrative. Myself included. That was my main point.

Moncada had a nice hit late in the game from the right side. Let's hope that continues.

[Flash]

1 minute ago, footlongcomiskeydog said:

No they would most certainly not. Not even Moncada and Kopech would be enough to get Vladdy JR. 

Moncada alone couldn't even net you Tatis JR at this point but in Hahn we trust lol. 

And that is my point. There is quite a chasm as to how this board views his value. I hope he lives up to the hype but I wouldn't rule out a trade. Would have to believe Hahn is better calibrated to his market value than this crowd. 

[TaylorStSox]

14 minutes ago, Jose Abreu said:

Right on cue, here's Tom to derail a civil, productive discussion, all the while being guilty of the very thing he's accusing me of doing. It's shameless trolling at this point, and it's quite unfortunate that one poster has singlehandedly lowered the bar for quality of discourse throughout the entire site.

Yeah, it's not what I really expect out of this site. I can't think of anyone else who's just looking to troll all the time. 

[southsider2k5]

7 minutes ago, Flash said:

And that is my point. There is quite a chasm as to how this board views his value. I hope he lives up to the hype but I wouldn't rule out a trade. Would have to believe Hahn is better calibrated to his market value than this crowd. 

I am going to go out on a limb and give this as an answer to Moncada's trade value.

In the next 5 years at least, Yoan will never have a smaller trade value than he has today. Once he clicks, and it will happen,  Yoan will be a perpetual all star level player. 

[Flash]

3 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

I am going to go out on a limb and give this as an answer to Moncada's trade value.

In the next 5 years at least, Yoan will never have a smaller trade value than he has today. Once he clicks, and it will happen,  Yoan will be a perpetual all star level player. 

At what position?

[southsider2k5]

2 minutes ago, Flash said:

At what position?

2B.

[Flash]

Just now, southsider2k5 said:

2B.

Where does Madrigal play?

[Jack Parkman]

6 minutes ago, Flash said:

Where does Madrigal play?

SS. I don't know what they do with Anderson. 

[southsider2k5]

13 minutes ago, Flash said:

Where does Madrigal play?

Doesn't matter. There is at least two years to worry about that.

[Chicago White Sox]

8 hours ago, Flash said:

Do you think Toronto would trade Vlad Guerrero Jr. for Moncada? Stop and think for a minute before responding.

Lol...do you seriously think Vlad Guerrero Jr is a FV 55 prospect?  He’s arguably the best prospect in baseball right now and his prospect grade is probably around a 70 FV (the same as Moncada).  So no, the Jays wouldn’t trade him for Moncada because he’s a similar caliber of prospect who’s also younger, controllable longer, & hasn’t hit any roadblocks yet.  But to answer your question, would the Padres trade a 55 FV infielder like Urias for Moncada?  The answer is most certainly yes.  GMs aren’t nearly as inpatient as you Flash and don’t drop a prospect multiple grades after posting 2.5 WAR in their first 162 games. 

[black jack]

I don't understand the Moncada vitriol on this board.  

Everyone knew there would be growing pains, yet some are demanding instant results.  

 

At this point i'm wondering if certain posters aren't Cub (or another team's) fans trolling us.

[Balta1701]

7 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

Doesn't matter. There is at least two years to worry about that.

If Moncada were to break out as an all star caliber player and Madrigal makes himself a top 10 prospect, Madrigal plays 2b for the team that has the #2 system in baseball at the time after the White Sox trade for their best player.

[Chicago White Sox]

9 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

If Moncada were to break out as an all star caliber player and Madrigal makes himself a top 10 prospect, Madrigal plays 2b for the team that has the #2 system in baseball at the time after the White Sox trade for their best player.

Balta, what in the world are you trying to say here?