1 minute ago, whitesoxwinner said:

Do you think they won't miss on harper?

I know you're asking him but I'll answer for myself.

I think Harper was their primary target all along. I think they only wanted Machado if it meant they could also get Harper. I dont think the Phillies are the frontrunner for Harper any more than the Sox were the frontrunner for Machado. Its all media smoke & mirrors.

Not saying they are going to get Harper but I believe quite strongly, without any inside knowledge or anything mind you (such a silly caveat to need to provide), that he is their number one target and has been for the better part of a year.

17 minutes ago, whitesoxwinner said:

Do you think they won't miss on harper?

Expect a vague response or none at all.

Edited February 24, 20197 yr by Harper2Sox

 I don't think it's good for a player to be holding out for the right contract when basically the season has started.

20 minutes ago, whitesoxwinner said:

Do you think they won't miss on harper?

I have no idea. 

6 minutes ago, kitekrazy said:

 I don't think it's good for a player to be holding out for the right contract when basically the season has started.

He’s waiting for his magic number which I’m sure he will get.  And natural talent and ability like Harper probably doesn’t need much time to get ready for the season.

1 minute ago, Harper2Sox said:

He’s waiting for his magic number which I’m sure he will get.  And natural talent and ability like Harper probably doesn’t need much time to get ready for the season.

 Well he's not getting his number yet.  

5 minutes ago, kitekrazy said:

 Well he's not getting his number yet.  

He may have. He may just be seeing if by waiting a few extra days a team gets impatient

34 minutes ago, KiwiSox said:

I know you're asking him but I'll answer for myself.

I think Harper was their primary target all along. I think they only wanted Machado if it meant they could also get Harper. I dont think the Phillies are the frontrunner for Harper any more than the Sox were the frontrunner for Machado. Its all media smoke & mirrors.

Not saying they are going to get Harper but I believe quite strongly, without any inside knowledge or anything mind you (such a silly caveat to need to provide), that he is their number one target and has been for the better part of a year.

I appreciate the optimism, but they were never gonna get both. It was clear machado was their guy, and there's no way around it. I think harper was their guy at first but then jerry realized how expensive he was gonna be

17 minutes ago, iamshack said:

I have no idea. 

Well, here's to hoping they are motivated to not lose out on both

3 hours ago, KnightsOnMintSt said:

Do I think it will happen? No. But they pretty much offered Manny $350 million with the stipulations, so I could see the Sox offering that, but just guaranteeing it.

They weren't even close to offering Machado $350M. They controlled whether or not he got $250M or he got $320M. Consider those final 2 years of $70M as team option years because they didn't want him to reach 550 PA, then be wouldn't reach 550 PA. And they almost certainly would not want him to pay a 35-36 year old Manny $70M over 2 years. 

1 minute ago, ChiliIrishHammock24 said:

They weren't even close to offering Machado $350M. They controlled whether or not he got $250M or he got $320M. Consider those final 2 years of $70M as team option years because they didn't want him to reach 550 PA, then be wouldn't reach 550 PA. And they almost certainly would not want him to pay a 35-36 year old Manny $70M over 2 years. 

To be fair, Joe, I don’t think they wouldn’t have played him or something if he was still performing. I think they simply had concerns about his effectiveness at age 34-35. 

Its unfortunate and difficult to understand. Inexplicable, really.

3 minutes ago, ChiliIrishHammock24 said:

They weren't even close to offering Machado $350M. They controlled whether or not he got $250M or he got $320M. Consider those final 2 years of $70M as team option years because they didn't want him to reach 550 PA, then be wouldn't reach 550 PA. And they almost certainly would not want him to pay a 35-36 year old Manny $70M over 2 years. 

Yeah those vesting options were such bullshit. Jerry knew it would be nearly impossible for him to achieve those. Those options were there to make the deal look better

Just now, iamshack said:

To be fair, Joe, I don’t think they wouldn’t have played him or something if he was still performing. I think they simply had concerns about his effectiveness at age 34-35. 

Its unfortunate and difficult to understand. Inexplicable, really.

It's understandable, because at the end of those type of deals it looks bad. But, if you want a premium free agent, you're gonna have to deal with those ~2 bad years for the 8-9 good years they give you. Unfortunately, Jerry is a little short sighted

Surprised Sox didn’t change it to be a swell opt at year 4 or 5 that locked him in at 320 or allowed the opt out. That’s at least much more competitive though still at a disadvantage to straight up 300 mill

As I think about it more, the acquisitions of Jay and Alonso may not have been as counter productive, as we all assume, providing that the Sox intended to sign Harper, all along. Aside from the potential to help bring Machado as well, which failed, they could fit, if Harper is signed and the Sox intended to make a run for the Division, this year. We understand that they are both only going to be on the roster for one year, and they aren't really holding anyone back, except Palka, who would be replaced by Harper, anyway. They would have a decent lineup, with good balance, from both sides of the plate:

3B Moncada. SW

CF Jay. LH

LF Eloy RH

RF Harper LH

DH Abreu RH

1B Alonso LH

C  Castillo RH

2B Sanchez SW

SS Anderson RH

If Santana is really healthy, he is fine as a middle, or back end of the rotation starter. for one year, until Kopech and Cease going the rotation, next year.

The Bullpen has been fixed.

The point is that Jay and Alonso could be useful, if they sign Harper. Without him, their presence is indeed counter productive. So, yet one more argument for a scenario, in which they have always intended to pursue Harper, even though they brought in Manny's 305 Club, which did at least serve to conceal, or confuse their true intentions. It's the kind of stealth and 4 D chess, which is probably beyond our front office, but we won't know, until Harper is finally signed, if ever.

 

 

7 minutes ago, whitesoxwinner said:

It's understandable, because at the end of those type of deals it looks bad. But, if you want a premium free agent, you're gonna have to deal with those ~2 bad years for the 8-9 good years they give you. Unfortunately, Jerry is a little short sighted

My favorite quote on FA is from Andrew Friedman. 

“If you’re always rational on every free agent,” he said, “you will finish third on every free agent.”

9 minutes ago, bmags said:

Surprised Sox didn’t change it to be a swell opt at year 4 or 5 that locked him in at 320 or allowed the opt out. That’s at least much more competitive though still at a disadvantage to straight up 300 mill

Yeah, I’m not sure they were aware the threat was as real as it was. 

11 minutes ago, iamshack said:

My favorite quote on FA is from Andrew Friedman. 

“If you’re always rational on every free agent,” he said, “you will finish third on every free agent.”

And this is exactly why I don’t see the White Sox landing a big time free agent anytime soon. Jerry hamstrings his front office so they can’t land a big named guy, always has been the case and always will....

2 minutes ago, beckham15 said:

And this is exactly why I don’t see the White Sox landing a big time free agent anytime soon. Jerry hamstrings his front office so they can’t land a big named guy, always has been the case and always will....

To be entirely fair, this is part of what has saved them from being much worse off than they actually have been. They’ve never gotten themselves in too bad of financial shape. 

But this was the time to take the risk. 

Just now, iamshack said:

To be entirely fair, this is part of what has saved them from being much worse off than they actually have been. They’ve never gotten themselves in too bad of financial shape. 

But this was the time to take the risk. 

That’s what I mean though, Machado was the guy they wanted and had their eye on for 2 years or so they say....if you aren’t willing to go the distance for your guy they aren’t going to be major players in many down the road when the big boys come to play in free agency 

1 minute ago, beckham15 said:

That’s what I mean though, Machado was the guy they wanted and had their eye on for 2 years or so they say....if you aren’t willing to go the distance for your guy they aren’t going to be major players in many down the road when the big boys come to play in free agency 

They may have been willing to go the distance for him and just botched the negotiations. Perhaps they didn't believe SD was at $300M? We'll never know. Maybe there was a legit cap on what they were willing to pay Manny? That's not shocking either.

Perhaps it was a mix of all of the above? At the end of  the day, it seems the Phillies, Yankees, and possibly some others weren't willing to go $300M for Manny either.  

3 minutes ago, beckham15 said:

That’s what I mean though, Machado was the guy they wanted and had their eye on for 2 years or so they say....if you aren’t willing to go the distance for your guy they aren’t going to be major players in many down the road when the big boys come to play in free agency 

I think they will learn from this. As much as people are disappointed, infuriated, devastated, etc., so is the FO. Say what you want about Rick, but he’s not some “ old-school baseball guy.” He’s educated, shrewd, and certainly not a fool. There will be other opportunities to capture impact players as a result of their payroll flexibility. This was just the clearest opportunity to take advantage of that.

1 minute ago, iamshack said:

I think they will learn from this. As much as people are disappointed, infuriated, devastated, etc., so is the FO. Say what you want about Rick, but he’s not some “ old-school baseball guy.” He’s educated, shrewd, and certainly not a fool. There will be other opportunities to capture impact players as a result of their payroll flexibility. This was just the clearest opportunity to take advantage of that.

You better be wearing flame retardant clothing with posts like that.

I agree with you 100%

Just now, iamshack said:

I think they will learn from this. As much as people are disappointed, infuriated, devastated, etc., so is the FO. Say what you want about Rick, but he’s not some “ old-school baseball guy.” He’s educated, shrewd, and certainly not a fool. There will be other opportunities to capture impact players as a result of their payroll flexibility. This was just the clearest opportunity to take advantage of that.

I’m not necessarily blaming it on Hahn, but the shrewdness of the owner.....if you don’t handcuff your GM I have complete faith he would have landed him and Machado would be a White Sox. 

Proof is in the pudding, as they say.