February 25, 20197 yr 29 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: It totally fits with what I'm saying and requires no bad blood. Lozano said "Will you go to 10/$300 million". The White Sox said "No but here's what we will do". The Padres said "Yes". You don't have to go back to the other team in that scenario and it requires no bad blood. They said no. They had their chance and turned it down. Yeah, I think you are right, except reverse the White Sox part. I think the Sox offered what they offered, Lozano countered with $300M and the Sox said "No, we will comfortable at this amount", and then the Padres said yes to $300M. That makes way more sense than Lozano not shopping a Padres offer back to the Sox.
February 25, 20197 yr 4 minutes ago, beckham15 said: You know what the crazy thing is the White Sox have a chance to fix their mistake and save face right here with Harper and it appears they are not going to do so. Even if they are behind the scenes trying to make something happen it is going to be looked at by fans like the front office just rolled over and gave up after so much press/confidence surrounding Machado. It turns out Scott Boras and JR hammering out the biggest contract in mlb history was just as absurd as we always thought.
February 25, 20197 yr Just now, ChiliIrishHammock24 said: Yeah, I think you are right, except reverse the White Sox part. I think the Sox offered what they offered, Lozano countered with $300M and the Sox said "No, we will comfortable at this amount", and then the Padres said yes to $300M. That makes way more sense than Lozano not shopping a Padres offer back to the Sox. Fair enough. All I know is that we have been told repeatedly that Lozano gave all 3 teams the $300 million number and the White Sox did not accept it, that doesn't give us the order it happened.
February 25, 20197 yr 12 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: At 8 years, that would be 40 mil per year. I would be against the Sox signing him for 8 yrs/$330M, to be honest. 10 years, fine. But $41.5M AAV or whatever the math is on that.....yikes. Machado should be the better player over that time, so an extra $10M a year would be tough to rationalize.
February 25, 20197 yr 16 minutes ago, Soxbadger said: I think thats a little to simple. When you negotiate sometimes you hit their number, sometimes they hit your number. But you really never want to just sit on a number for months. Talks get stale and it breeds animosity. I agree with this and I was actually in the group that thought that the Sox were playing it right. I understood the risk involved with my thinking. But I was wrong. I thought the Sox FO and Jerry would be more aggressive at the $280 - 300M range.
February 25, 20197 yr 34 minutes ago, macsandz said: Timing was a total coincidence. The plan was to get him reps there this ST anyway. Except not a word of this was reported prior to the day before Manny signed. Something this major would have leaked if it were in the works.
February 25, 20197 yr 1 minute ago, ChiliIrishHammock24 said: I would be against the Sox signing him for 8 yrs/$330M, to be honest. 10 years, fine. But $41.5M AAV or whatever the math is on that.....yikes. Machado should be the better player over that time, so an extra $10M a year would be tough to rationalize. Would it be worth the extra 10 mil a year to legitimize your franchise again? We act like we are up towards the cap already, I would pay Bryce whatever it took to get him here. We have the cap room and it just gets bigger in the following years.....
February 25, 20197 yr 3 minutes ago, ChiliIrishHammock24 said: I would be against the Sox signing him for 8 yrs/$330M, to be honest. 10 years, fine. But $41.5M AAV or whatever the math is on that.....yikes. Machado should be the better player over that time, so an extra $10M a year would be tough to rationalize. I’d be great with 8/330.
February 25, 20197 yr 15 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: Take a look at how it went down and ask yourself what the evidence says. If he was hamstrung by the organization - well he needed to work harder to make sure his ownership was on board, that's part of his job. If he couldn't handle a negotiation as well as buying a Kia...then judge for yourself whether he's any good at this. Ok, so Badger and I, both of whom have legal training, and professional experience with negotiations, replied with very similar responses to you, within seconds of one another, regarding your logic. I understand how you think it looks. And I admit they took a risk, and it blew up in their faces. But it likely wasn’t anywhere as simple as you think it was.
February 25, 20197 yr 1 minute ago, SonofaRoache said: Except not a word of this was reported prior to the day before Manny signed. Something this major would have leaked if it were in the works. There was talk all winter of Yoan playing 3B. There was a thread about it.
February 25, 20197 yr 15 minutes ago, Dick Allen said: Jay was here for one reason. He got $4 million because that is what would get him signed right away. Apparently the Sox thought his $4 million would be more than paid for by the friends and family discount they thought was coming their way. I agree with this. The Jay signing and Alonso acquisitions are not bad deals. They are 1 year deals. They aren't bogging down the franchise. I get why the FO did what they did here and don't fault them for it.
February 25, 20197 yr Can we just get back to talking about Harper and not arguing please? Our insiders need to be dropping all the info they know ?
February 25, 20197 yr 13 minutes ago, ChiliIrishHammock24 said: I would be against the Sox signing him for 8 yrs/$330M, to be honest. 10 years, fine. But $41.5M AAV or whatever the math is on that.....yikes. Machado should be the better player over that time, so an extra $10M a year would be tough to rationalize. Well, the Sox are in a position in years 1 - 3 to front load the shit out of the contract. So I wouldn't mind them doing that. Edited February 25, 20197 yr by Stealth G.O.A.T.
February 25, 20197 yr 3 minutes ago, iamshack said: Ok, so Badger and I, both of whom have legal training, and professional experience with negotiations, replied with very similar responses to you, within seconds of one another, regarding your logic. I understand how you think it looks. And I admit they took a risk, and it blew up in their faces. But it likely wasn’t anywhere as simple as you think it was. Of course there are other details, but you're hiding behind all those. They met briefly on Monday, they didn't have a 12 hour session where they threw everything out and started negotiating from scratch to cover all those details. On Monday, they put new numbers down in structures they had discussed previously, with all the other topics covered previously, and by not accepting something along the lines of Lozano's structure, the White Sox left Lozano no reason to come back to them when another team did. Lozano's side gave the White Sox a reasonable offer and the White Sox said no while someone else said yes. Regardless of everything else that was discussed in previous weeks, that's what happened.
February 25, 20197 yr 3 minutes ago, Stealth G.O.A.T. said: I agree with this. The Jay signing and Alonso acquisitions are not bad deals. They are 1 year deals. They aren't bogging down the franchise. I get why the FO did what they did here and don't fault them for it. The Jay and Alonso acquisitions are horrible deals. They were only brought aboard to entice Manny Machado. Do you see Manny Machado in a White Sox uniform? Jay would still be sitting at home like Cargo or Adam Jones if it wasn't for his connections with Manny. Alonso is redundant on the Sox and should still be sucking up payroll from our division rival in Cleveland.
February 25, 20197 yr 12 minutes ago, fathom said: I’d be great with 8/330. Or 10/400 if that's what it takes.
February 25, 20197 yr Just now, OneDog847 said: The Jay and Alonso acquisitions are horrible deals. They were only brought aboard to entice Manny Machado. Do you see Manny Machado in a White Sox uniform? Jay would still be sitting at home like Cargo or Adam Jones if it wasn't for his connections with Manny. Alonso is redundant on the Sox and should still be sucking up payroll from our division rival in Cleveland. Jay and Alonso serve a purpose for one year with or without Machado. They don’t hurt the Whitesox in anyway shape or form moving forward. They had more value to us on the roster than not and I don’t blame managements forward thinking in acquiring them.
February 25, 20197 yr Just now, OneDog847 said: The Jay and Alonso acquisitions are horrible deals. They were only brought aboard to entice Manny Machado. Do you see Manny Machado in a White Sox uniform? Jay would still be sitting at home like Cargo or Adam Jones if it wasn't for his connections with Manny. Alonso is redundant on the Sox and should still be sucking up payroll from our division rival in Cleveland. They're still not "horrible deals". It can fall under the potential cost of acquisition of Manny Machado. I was willing to take on $13M for 1 year to do so. That's nothing.
February 25, 20197 yr 1 minute ago, beckham15 said: Jay and Alonso serve a purpose for one year with or without Machado. They don’t hurt the Whitesox in anyway shape or form moving forward. They had more value to us on the roster than not and I don’t blame managements forward thinking in acquiring them. What purpose do bad veteran players serve on a rebuilding team during a developmental year?
February 25, 20197 yr 24 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: There's literally no evidence of animosity on the part of Machado's side. Lozano met with them on Monday. Both sides presented an offer. Lozano did the work of his client quite well, he kept multiple teams in the running and extracted a fair agreement from one of them. If the White Sox were angry at Machado's side for not coming down earlier and they lost the player because they needed to throw a fit rather than accepting Lozano's offer...well frankly that would also be a indictment of the professionalism of the Chicago White Sox management. It's rather amazing that people consider remarks like that to be defenses of them. 2 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: Of course there are other details, but you're hiding behind all those. They met briefly on Monday, they didn't have a 12 hour session where they threw everything out and started negotiating from scratch to cover all those details. On Monday, they put new numbers down in structures they had discussed previously, with all the other topics covered previously, and by not accepting something along the lines of Lozano's structure, the White Sox left Lozano no reason to come back to them when another team did. Lozano's side gave the White Sox a reasonable offer and the White Sox said no while someone else said yes. Regardless of everything else that was discussed in previous weeks, that's what happened. Balta, For a baseline, we both agree neither of us have any sources and that neither of us have any idea how it really went down. We are both speculating, correct? So here is what I mean by animosity. I believe that Machado preferred the Sox to the Padres at the start. I think that he wanted Lozado to work a deal with the Sox when it became apparent that the Yankees werent going to be real players. But after a month of the Sox sitting on their offer, he started to think "Maybe this isnt where I want to be." So when the Padres came in, they werent playing from behind, they actually had an advantage. The reason I believe this is because if Machado still wanted to be on the Sox, even if it was 10/300 v 8/250 possibly more. Lozado would have gone back to the Sox to hammer something out. He wouldnt have just taken the 10/300. The reason he took the 10/300 is because the Sox dicked around for a month and blew their chance. Thats my no sauces take.
February 25, 20197 yr 8 minutes ago, Dlsoxfan said: Harper is not coming to chicago. No one gives a shit we just want info on where he's going, whether it's the Sox or not.
February 25, 20197 yr 6 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: Of course there are other details, but you're hiding behind all those. They met briefly on Monday, they didn't have a 12 hour session where they threw everything out and started negotiating from scratch to cover all those details. On Monday, they put new numbers down in structures they had discussed previously, with all the other topics covered previously, and by not accepting something along the lines of Lozano's structure, the White Sox left Lozano no reason to come back to them when another team did. Lozano's side gave the White Sox a reasonable offer and the White Sox said no while someone else said yes. Regardless of everything else that was discussed in previous weeks, that's what happened. Lozano supposedly asked for final numbers prior to New Years’ Day. How many times might he have done this? This thing was almost done many times, only to then suddenly stop. With the benefit of hindsight, the time Lozano honestly was closing it out was the time it is easy to criticize the Sox for not biting. You have no idea how many other times they didn’t bite and nothing happened.
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