1 minute ago, ptatc said:

It is. They've offered record breaking deals. 

Says who?

2 minutes ago, bmags said:

Says who?

Because it appears they were in the final 3 or 4 teams for both Machado and Harper. I don't think they would be in consideration for either if they weren't offering those kinds of contracts. 

14 minutes ago, TaylorStSox said:

Hahaha. You just completely defined some really arbitrary numbers and tried to send me on a mission? Good luck with that. 

You want to be lazy, fine, here's the middle part of the free agent market last year. Here's guys who got $10-20 million AAV. note,  I'm being nice because Darvish got $21 million annual.

Santana - Already dumped by the Phillies
Hosmer .720 OPS, 1.4 rWAR.
Wade Davis - ERA of 4.13 but led the NL in saves so not awful!
Lorenzo Cain - Congratulations you won the lottery
Alex Cobb 5-15, 4.90 ERA.
Greg Holland - 4.66 ERA, congrats you only signed him for 1 year so the debacle was limited
Jay Bruce - you still owe $26 million to a guy who put up a .680 OPS.
Tyler Chatwood - 5.30 ERA for the Cubs
Zack Cozart - .658 OPS, missed half the year.
Lance Lynn - pitched 54 innings for your $12 million
Brandon Morrow - good first half, missed the entire 2nd half.
CC Sabathia - you know what? Not bad.
Jaime Garcia - 5.82 ERA.

That is everyone last year who signed 10-20 million average annual value, roughly the middle part of the free agent market. Out of 13 guys, there's 2 to 3 you're actually happy with. 

The middle part of the free agent market is a plague to baseball. It is a way to destroy your franchise.
 

3 minutes ago, TaylorStSox said:

We most likely have 30% of a 9,000,000 person market. We're definitely smaller than the Mets and Angels, who share a much larger market. I'm surprised people haven't actually quantified the stats. I see a lot of talk about how we could be bigger, but I see very little evidence that we actually are bigger. 

The Mets & Angels are large market teams, so I’m not sure what you’re getting at that there.  Right now, we are realistically a mid market team with the upside to be a low end large market team with some star power and an extended period of success.

3 minutes ago, ptatc said:

Because it appears they were in the final 3 or 4 teams for both Machado and Harper. I don't think they would be in consideration for either if they weren't offering those kinds of contracts. 

They are one of only 3 or 4 teams that has made a serious offer for these players.  Really don't know if they are record-breaking (unless you are talking about Sox record-breaking, which they obviously are).

9 minutes ago, TaylorStSox said:

Because $$$ and market share. 

I have no clue what this means.  Our TV revenue is fixed and could be worth $150M or more once our local deal is in place.  You’re really over exaggerating our financial woes.

2 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

The Mets & Angels are large market teams, so I’m not sure what you’re getting at that there.  Right now, we are realistically a mid market team with the upside to be a low end large market team with some star power and an extended period of success.

I brought up the Mets and Angels because they both have a smaller share of a market, like we do. I'll buy mid-market, but I see very little upside. The Cubs popularity is pretty set in stone and the South Side isn't a great place to see a ball game, like it or not. 

1 minute ago, GreenSox said:

They are one of only 3 or 4 teams that has made a serious offer for these players.  Really don't know if they are record-breaking (unless you are talking about Sox record-breaking, which they obviously are).

Be as pessimistic as you want but if the offer wasn't record breaking it wasn't serious and the p,ayer wouldn't have met with them.

I have no doubt each player got a minimum of 10/300.

6 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

You want to be lazy, fine, here's the middle part of the free agent market last year. Here's guys who got $10-20 million AAV. note,  I'm being nice because Darvish got $21 million annual.

Santana - Already dumped by the Phillies
Hosmer .720 OPS, 1.4 rWAR.
Wade Davis - ERA of 4.13 but led the NL in saves so not awful!
Lorenzo Cain - Congratulations you won the lottery
Alex Cobb 5-15, 4.90 ERA.
Greg Holland - 4.66 ERA, congrats you only signed him for 1 year so the debacle was limited
Jay Bruce - you still owe $26 million to a guy who put up a .680 OPS.
Tyler Chatwood - 5.30 ERA for the Cubs
Zack Cozart - .658 OPS, missed half the year.
Lance Lynn - pitched 54 innings for your $12 million
Brandon Morrow - good first half, missed the entire 2nd half.
CC Sabathia - you know what? Not bad.
Jaime Garcia - 5.82 ERA.

That is everyone last year who signed 10-20 million average annual value, roughly the middle part of the free agent market. Out of 13 guys, there's 2 to 3 you're actually happy with. 

The middle part of the free agent market is a plague to baseball. It is a way to destroy your franchise.
 

Nice work. Hopefully all those teams weren't hinging their future on those signings. 

The Sox are like the cousin of the A's with a credit card. 

If they are small market, it’s only because of a decade’s mind-numbing results on the field, busted draft picks, value-oriented Tier B free agent spending patterns and the lack of any visible marketing appeal (Abreu jersey sales lagging behind Madden, for example)...we’ve pretty much been conditioned as fans to think of the team that way.   Heck, the Cubs’ bat boy jersey might be leading Moncada or Anderson.

Nevertheless, we wouldn’t have one of the better media rights deals in baseball without having a significant potential market...despite the atrocious ratings...we’re a sleeping “mini-giant.”  

No excuse for not being a Top 8-12 franchise in the game if things were executed properly.

Edited December 31, 20187 yr by caulfield12

45 minutes ago, TaylorStSox said:

The Sox are like the cousin of the A's with a credit card. 

The A’s are good every once in awhile. They’re more like the Mariners.

4 minutes ago, Sockin said:

The A’s are good every once in awhile. They’re more like the Mariners.

The Mariners went out and added Cano and Cruz when they signed their new deal with ROOT Sports...already having Felix Hernandez under a long-term deal, when he was still a fireballer.

The A’s have never been able to afford ONE big contract.  

The closest was Cespedes, but they go over $70-75 million as often as the White Sox.

Edited December 31, 20187 yr by caulfield12

Even at their peak of 05 to say 08, this franchise was never outside of the middle tier of revenue in MLB.  The Sox are the definition of mid market according to the numbers. 

5 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Even at their peak of 05 to say 08, this franchise was never outside of the middle tier of revenue in MLB.  The Sox are the definition of mid market according to the numbers. 

Sure, but they also peaked at #8 in franchise value at that time.  

Where are they now?   It would take another five consecutive years of 90-100 loss teams to fall into the 20’s.

1 hour ago, ptatc said:

It is. They've offered record breaking deals. That is very different for them in recent years. 

You don’t say that publicly then. You say “we’ll see” and you do it behind closed doors. That way if (when) you get neither player, you don’t look so fucking stupid.

I would be more upset as a Phillies’ fan, but that city also has an inferiority complex.

They’re the ones with the “stupid money” owner still not being enough to entice anyone, were/are closer to contention and had dominating World Series teams more recently, East Coast for more media coverage, etc.

Still...almost equally disheartening for Sox fans, some who even believed both were possible there for a week or two.

13 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

I would be more upset as a Phillies’ fan, but that city also has an inferiority complex.

They’re the ones with the “stupid money” owner still not being enough to entice anyone, were/are closer to contention and had dominating World Series teams more recently, East Coast for more media coverage, etc.

Still...almost equally disheartening for Sox fans, some who even believed both were possible there for a week or two.

I mean, Philly is the dirtiest city I've ever seen in my life. The tap water is really fuckin good though. 

1 hour ago, ptatc said:

Be as pessimistic as you want but if the offer wasn't record breaking it wasn't serious and the p,ayer wouldn't have met with them.

I have no doubt each player got a minimum of 10/300.

I think that's probably true....but the Phillies might have outbid that (and, like the Sox, they need to go high).  And on an AAV basis, the Yankees could have outbid the Sox.

Sure it might be record breaking. The problem is the other teams probably have comparable record breaking offers. 

 

5 hours ago, ptatc said:

This is the reason the White Sox never wanted to do a true, complete rebuild. Not to pick on you individually but I think this is the sentiment of most Sox fans and the fanbase will not tolerate a true rebuild. The cubs had 4 years of losing 90+ games, the Astros had 3 straight 100 loss seasons. The Sox fan base won't tolerate that.

I wasnt watching much before the rebuild either though.

And the fan base wasnt exactly thriving during the early 2010s

1 hour ago, LittleHurt05 said:

 

I wasnt watching much before the rebuild either though.

And the fan base wasnt exactly thriving during the early 2010s

Because they already had that trend of being pretty boring/mediocre every other season.

2007-09-11-13

The Adam Dunn fiasco was yet another huge setback...followed up by LaRoche and Melky.  Bad decisions and poor talent evaluation compounding, mixed in with Beckham/Viciedo sliding  backwards and Quentin’s health going.   Tried to hold the veteran core together too long, there are so many things we could point to.

Edited December 31, 20187 yr by caulfield12

2 hours ago, Sockin said:

The A’s are good every once in awhile. They’re more like the Mariners.

Yeah that's fairly insulting to the A's...Billy can atleast make do with the cards his given. They just do their jobs there and build up a team that ends up being sneaky good like last year. 

Edited December 31, 20187 yr by Baron

I think the problem is, many of the plan b's or plan c's were off the market before the Machado's or Harpers seemed to start leaning to other teams. And the Sox chose to let those guys go to other teams. So, what we're left with, if the Sox do fail to land one of the big fishes - is the Sox looking like they were completely unprepared for this off-season, and apparently content with pushing the 100 loss envelope once again in 2019.

3 hours ago, soxfan49 said:

You don’t say that publicly then. You say “we’ll see” and you do it behind closed doors. That way if (when) you get neither player, you don’t look so fucking stupid.

Why not, we want them to be honest right?