If our offer was 175, he would be a Yankee by now.

1 minute ago, Rowand44 said:

Hector Gomez just RT'd the Passan report from over the weekend again.  ARE WE HAVING FUN YET?!?

I completely believe that the two sides are actually working out details of a new offer around 8 / 250 but is not formalized yet.

But this leak is so weird and I can't really figure out who it benefits.

1 minute ago, bmags said:

And obviously people should just trust this organization who have effectively waded in these waters before only to come out victorious.

And before anyone asks, no I don't think this is our offer as it stands today, but yes, i find it significant that two writers put out same info. It means something.

Like I said last night, if this offer is true and the Sox don’t land Machado, our front office is basically committing franchise suicide.  That leaves me to believe the Sox are confident in their ability to get this done and simply want the Phillies to think they’re sitting pretty.  And honestly, Jerry having that “cheap” association with him might just give this rumor the credence it needs to be effective.

7/175 w option year triggering 8th year $75 million payment making it 8/250 essentially...if Manny hits certain performance metrics such as 7 MVP awards 

2 minutes ago, bschmaranz said:

If our offer was 175, he would be a Yankee by now.

You would think so. This almost reeks of collusion.

Edited January 16, 20197 yr by Jack Parkman

1 minute ago, chitownsportsfan said:

It does if you believe in collusion.  And if you observed last off-season and now this one I'm not sure how in any Bayesian style inductive analysis you wouldn't at least consider it.

The teams are being incredibly disciplined then.  Everyone can use Manny Machado.  For the top level teams, he could put them over the top.

If the report from Olney is true, I would think the Yankees and Cardinals offers were somewhere around 5-year, $150 million. Still gets $30 million per year, but not for the amount of years he was expecting.

4 minutes ago, bmags said:

And obviously people should just trust this organization who have effectively waded in these waters before only to come out victorious.

And before anyone asks, no I don't think this is our offer as it stands today, but yes, i find it significant that two writers put out same info. It means something.

When have the Sox ever effectively waded in these waters? This signing would be entirely unprecedented.

1 minute ago, chitownsportsfan said:

It does if you believe in collusion.  And if you observed last off-season and now this one I'm not sure how in any Bayesian style inductive analysis you wouldn't at least consider it.

Especially with Reinsdorf involved.

Just now, bmags said:

I completely believe that the two sides are actually working out details of a new offer around 8 / 250 but is not formalized yet.

But this leak is so weird and I can't really figure out who it benefits.

Sox just trying to raise doubts in Phillies mind about how much to offer?  That’s only thing that makes sense.

Lozano spread 7/200 to try to get new offers. White Sox likely knew it was false but sent the same report to Van Schouwen and Merkin as a ballsy way of saying 'sure, report that if you want, we don't care'

now we're at 175! "Can You Top This" basically.  Round and round we go.  But what's likely is Passan and Gomez had the real scoop.  Sourced from a place outside teams or agents

Edited January 16, 20197 yr by Princess Dye

1 minute ago, 103 mph screwball said:

 

I don't disagree with your points.  But another thing to consider is Manny Machado being happy playing for the White Sox.  Pay him enough that he feels he's paid well for his services.  Maybe that's what the Sox are doing here.  Nobody will go 200 million for you.  We will give you 230.

Plenty of MLB players believes they should get paid more. If Machado truly outperforms his contract value significantly then we could talk about contract restructure. For now there is no need based on how market is playing out.

Just now, southsider2k5 said:

The teams are being incredibly disciplined then.  Everyone can use Manny Machado.  For the top level teams, he could put them over the top.

Hey, you should file their brief!  Not bad.

1 minute ago, mqr said:

When have the Sox ever effectively waded in these waters? This signing would be entirely unprecedented.

And that's the joke.

18 minutes ago, Kiebs13 said:

@raBBit what say you about this Buster/Bob report?

I say it's consistent with just about everything they've put out  over the last two months. Both Olney & Nightengale have been drumming down the idea of the Sox spending some exorbitant (or even FMV) amount of money for Harper/Machado. Has nothing changed since then? Is is the same source providing this detail?

The amount of suitors in it for Manny is alarmingly low if you're Lozano. I am just spitballing but this leak is either from Lozano with the intention of inviting teams back in as the price may not be as high as one would think. The other side is this is a Sox leak trying to paint the market for MM/Lozano to be bleak as the team supposedly leading the way has a pretty underwhelming offer. To me, it calls to question what Phili did this last week. Why weren't the Sox pressured to increase their offer as a result of Phili? Did Phili not beat our offer? Did they not extend an offer?

In any case, you cannot live and die by individual media reports. They have been a roller coaster. The Sox are all about patience with this process.  There has been a "guarded optimism" for a few weeks now and that hasn't changed with the media being all over the place. That doesn't concern me. What concerns me is the fact that we're not Machado's preferred high bidder. The bottom line is, the Sox know they need to convert here (whether we are speaking to Harper or MM).They are willing to spend a lot. I think they'll surprise many. At the same time, and given JR's involvement specifically, they are very much focused on not spending a dollar more than they have to. As it absolutely should be. We will see what Phili drums up and they're the linchpin in the sweepstakes, but it doesn't seem the Sox have been pushed to increase their offer into the mid-higher range of what they're willing to spend. Sox will not bid against themselves. 

I'd like to be in the minds of the remaining free agent class.    Folks have to be scared at this point. 

14 minutes ago, Jake said:

Lack of a salary cap is definitely not the problem in baseball right now. The harshness of the new luxury tax may even be a key problem in getting the best players paid well.

This cannot be stated enough. Seems like the agents don't want to accept the new reality. 

5 minutes ago, Rowand44 said:

Hector Gomez just RT'd the Passan report from over the weekend again.  ARE WE HAVING FUN YET?!?

No! I wanna go home!

Watch the writers (jb) shuck all these crazy low offers and he signs with us for $350 mil.

4 minutes ago, bschmaranz said:

If our offer was 175, he would be a Yankee by now.

The Yankees saw the proposed contracts from Lozano and didn't even extend a formal offer. 

1 minute ago, HOFHurt35 said:

I'd like to be in the minds of the remaining free agent class.    Folks have to be scared at this point. 

Scary part definitely is that this market is so limited. Even when harper/machado cleared, I'd say there are maybe 5-7 free agents after that that can comfortably say they are going to get more than a 1 year deal. The rest have to be worried they will get more than a spring training invite.

7 minutes ago, Rowand44 said:

Hector Gomez just RT'd the Passan report from over the weekend again.  ARE WE HAVING FUN YET?!?

Priceless 

I don’t doubt that these are where the offers are, I just think if a lot of these teams are all around this same figure, then he’ll almost certainly sign with the Phillies or Yankees. That’s part of the reason the Sox need to offer more. Have to make up for the lack of winning, right now, with a bigger pay raise.

11 minutes ago, mqr said:

The payroll floor is whatever it would cost to give every player the minimum

definitely raise that then

5 minutes ago, raBBit said:

I say it's consistent with just about everything they've put out  over the last two months. Both Olney & Nightengale have been drumming down the idea of the Sox spending some exorbitant (or even FMV) amount of money for Harper/Machado. Has nothing changed since then? Is is the same source providing this detail?

The amount of suitors in it for Manny is alarmingly low if you're Lozano. I am just spitballing but this leak is either from Lozano with the intention of inviting teams back in as the price may not be as high as one would think. The other side is this is a Sox leak trying to paint the market for MM/Lozano to be bleak as the team supposedly leading the way has a pretty underwhelming offer. To me, it calls to question what Phili did this last week. Why weren't the Sox pressured to increase their offer as a result of Phili? Did Phili not beat our offer? Did they not extend an offer?

In any case, you cannot live and die by individual media reports. They have been a roller coaster. The Sox are all about patience with this process.  There has been a "guarded optimism" for a few weeks now and that hasn't changed with the media being all over the place. That doesn't concern me. What concerns me is the fact that we're not Machado's preferred high bidder. The bottom line is, the Sox know they need to convert here (whether we are speaking to Harper or MM).They are willing to spend a lot. I think they'll surprise many. At the same time, and given JR's involvement specifically, they are very much focused on not spending a dollar more than they have to. As it absolutely should be. We will see what Phili drums up and they're the linchpin in the sweepstakes, but it doesn't seem the Sox have been pushed to increase their offer into the mid-higher range of what they're willing to spend. Sox will not bid against themselves. 

raBBit, are you suggesting Machado prefers Philly over us?