6 minutes ago, ptatc said:

Ask the Astros. I don't think they had any high priced FA on their team.

Well they developed 4 home grown stars in Altuve, Bregman, Correa, and Springer. I don't see the Sox being able to develop hitting talent that efficiently so they have to go to free agency to make up for it. If the Sox don't convert now when the situation couldn't have developed any more perfectly, I just don't think they ever will. 

Edited February 18, 20197 yr by Whitesox27

2 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

Quentin.  

quentin was traded for

Obligatory

3 minutes ago, soxfan2014 said:

Fuck that.

It's one thing to lose out to a team like the Yankees, Red Sox, Dodgers, (gulp) the Cubs, or teams right in the middle of the competitive window where players want to play. But no excuses to not beat the Padres.

i am sure San Diego fans are saying the same thing

Just now, DurhamStance said:

Obligatory

So majestic

5 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Unless he winds up jack of all trades, master of none. Moncada has the tools to be a strong 2b and was improving at the position, but he was still a below average 2b last year altogether. He needed time to continue working at that position too. So, he spends some time at 3b, works through a year or so of struggles there, then moves back to 2b, and we've created a guy who is a below average defender at both?

If you are right and he keeps failing at everything,  it really doesn't matter. 

4 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

Quentin.  

We didn't draft him, he was pretty well developed. His first year with us was his mvp year (he got worse subsequently after)

1 minute ago, centerfieldsixers said:

i am sure San Diego fans are saying the same thing

Probably since the Sox are so irrelevant outside of their fans. But playing in a big market like Chicago, we have to get this done. Especially when the player doesn't even prefer to play out West.

Edited February 18, 20197 yr by soxfan2014

22 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

I agree with a lot of this.  The point is that Madrigal has a long ass way to go to prove he can maintain a good slash line even in the high minors.  We'll see what happens when pitchers with control that can also knock the bat out of his hands start facing him.  He's a nice prospect, but I think the Fangraphs valuation is way high on him.  I'm closer to Keith Law (ugh) on Madrigal.  Solid B guy, not A- or so like Fangraphs has him.

Agreed. I didn't mind the pick at the time, because there was a lot of smoke about the Sox going with Singer, and I hated him. Anyone but Singer. The more I hear about Madrigal, the less I like him. With Madrigal it all depends on 1) how many hits he gets and 2) how many of those are 2B and 3B. I don't expect him to hit more than 5-10 HR in a given year. he's going to have to hit 45-55 2B and 5-10 3B in order to be a decent player. 

Edited February 18, 20197 yr by Jack Parkman

Just now, southsider2k5 said:

If you are right and he keeps failing at everything,  it really doesn't matter. 

Then we should put him at a single position and have him work at that position until he's actually good at it. 

8 minutes ago, Tony said:

We’re still waiting for the Sox to draft and develop an all-star hitter. It’s been over a decade now...

This has always been the craziest part of rebuilding. 

12 minutes ago, mqr said:

Well that's not entirely true. Without Arrieta, Lester, Fowler, Castro they wouldn't have been a particularly good team until the next season. 

Arrieta was a trade, Fowler was bargain basement and I think Castro came up through the system.

3 minutes ago, Whitesox27 said:

Well they developed 4 home grown stars in Altuve, Bregman, Correa, and Springer. I don't see the Sox being able to develop hitting talent that efficiently so they have to go to free agency to make up for it. If the Sox don't convert now when the situation couldn't have developed any more perfectly, I just don't think they ever will. 

Also, maybe we could just try to supplement this rebuild with as much talent as possible instead of taking a risk that we'll be extraordinary in any one area? 

Just hearing a lot of skepticism that adding talent is necessary since we already have talent, and if the exact talent we have right now doesn't succeed perfectly than it proves they didn't need any more talent.

So if I am to believe the panic and the Padres have blown the doors off and the Sox backed off, what are we still doing here?

1 minute ago, ptatc said:

Arrieta was a trade, Fowler was bargain basement and I think Castro came up through the system.

Fowler was a trade too. Oh wait, he may have re-signed cheaply before the year they won. But still, he was familiar with the team.

Edited February 18, 20197 yr by soxfan2014

1 minute ago, Balta1701 said:

Then we should put him at a single position and have him work at that position until he's actually good at it. 

Or have him learn a new position when his mistakes won't matter. 

9 minutes ago, bmags said:

Just because it's a rebuild doesn't mean you have to wait until a decade later to judge the decisions being made in the present.

The sox targeted two very talented, younger than average for free agency player in a favorable environment. If they fail, it's fair to judge them on that.

It's also fair to judge them on their weak drafting since the rebuild.

It's also fair to judge them on their continued poor results from international free agency.

They haven't had a player use the ample playing time to suddenly flourish like other rebuilds, as milwaukee and philly had.

Hahn has yet to sign a free agent position player that has performed anywhere near better than expected during his entire tenure.

And it all still may succeed. But it doesn't mean every decision has been right along the way.

A decade would be unreasonable. I think 4 years is reasonable. Of course, every decision hasn't been right. No GM is going to get them all right.

1 minute ago, mqr said:

So if I am to believe the panic and the Padres have blown the doors off and the Sox backed off, what are we still doing here?

The bond weve created is so strong we cant part.

5 minutes ago, DurhamStance said:

Obligatory

Why not us?

That is one of the deepest philosphical questions regarding the White Sox I have ever heard.

Just now, mqr said:

So if I am to believe the panic and the Padres have blown the doors off and the Sox backed off, what are we still doing here?

nobody knows yet.  so far one insider hasnt been right so lets see how it plays out. Still hoping we land one but not going to jump the gun until all the facts come out.  havent we learned not do that?

Just now, ptatc said:

A decade would be unreasonable. I think 4 years is reasonable. Of course, every decision hasn't been right. No GM is going to get them all right.

One thing that helps GMs get benefit of the doubt is prior success.

3 minutes ago, bmags said:

We didn't draft him, he was pretty well developed. His first year with us was his mvp year (he got worse subsequently after)

didn't know that was the criteria, thought folks were just looking for a hitter they found either through scouting or development that turned out good.  There are no Sox draft picks.  The closest would probably be Simien with his career 713 OPS as a passable MLB SS.

Is there a debate going on that we don't need to sign him because we have too much talent? Or am I completely misreading this? The team doesn't have any MLB stars on it currently, so no reason to give up on landing one now.

8 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Instead of getting their guy via FA, they were literally bailed out by the Tigers being willing to part with Verlander. Had that Tigers team not collapsed, the Astros don't win a world series. 

Yes. They may need to trade some prospects to get some advance players.

1 minute ago, ptatc said:

A decade would be unreasonable. I think 4 years is reasonable. Of course, every decision hasn't been right. No GM is going to get them all right.

Let's give Hahn a chance before we judge