January 11, 20197 yr 2 minutes ago, Roughneck said: Machado knows that the extra special 24 hour deal will still be on the table in a month if he is unsigned. The Sox aren't spending that money elsewhere. JR isn't going to de-authorize that money at 5pm tomorrow. Lozano would laugh at using that language. No upside to making such an offer, and only potential downside. This only works if the Sox are a potential playoff teams saying "We are either signing you or instead giving big contracts to these 2 guys, leaving no money. If you don't sign with us by tomorrow, we go in the other direction." Right now, there is no other direction for the Sox. He risks the sox getting into a bidding war with the phillies that pushes both of them out of machado. Machado would literally have no REAL suitors right now if Sox and Phils both go full bore at Bryce. I realize that the loser of Bryce would most likely go back to Machado, but this is a very odd market with very few suitors. It's really unbelievable to be honest.
January 11, 20197 yr 2 minutes ago, EloyJenkins said: I never meant "take it or leave it"...I meant we are sweeting the pot for this exclusive period...The agent has probably already provided a similar time frame to the teams as well, so this is just amping up the stakes a bit more to get his client a sweetener. But that is only a threat if there is an alternative for the Sox. "Either we sign Machado longterm of we add this pitcher for 5 years and the OF for 4." That's not the case. They are signing nobody else. That "pot sweetener" will still be there at a later date, and at that point the Sox will essentially be crawling back to Machado. Also, the longer you let this go on, the more you risk another team making a trade and opening up payroll to sign Machado. So you might alienate Machado, make him stay away for another few weeks, and then have to offer a whole lot more since there's now a new bidder. The Sox would be smart to be persistent, but not do something to alienate Manny. They need Machado a whole hell of a lot more than he needs them.
January 11, 20197 yr 3 minutes ago, Saufley said: Sorry, but did I miss something? The Phillies need to finalize offers in the next 48-72 hours. Why? Because the Phillies are clearly the team with the most incentive to sign one for this year and next, and the most to lose with fans if they don’t. White Sox fans are comparatively used to being disappointed.
January 11, 20197 yr 1 minute ago, Perfect Vision said: Then what risk is there to the Sox? That they sign Manny next week to the same deal they are willing to sign him for today? Reports are that a Machado decision is expected very soon (yes, grain of salt). I'd prefer to see the Sox go for it now, then to take an attitude of seeing "how things play out." And there has to be some level of concern/doubt right now in Manny's camp that they'll lose any leverage they have if the Phillies reach an agreement with Harper this weekend. If you put $350 million for Machado on the table with a deadline, and next week he signed for $325 with the Phillies and you got nothing, wouldn't you feel pretty f***ing stupid for your negotiating tactic?
January 11, 20197 yr 1 minute ago, G&T said: Once you put something on the table, it doesn't come off. Not true if Rick Hahn goes into the board room during negotiations and drops his nuts on the table.
January 11, 20197 yr 1 minute ago, Balta1701 said: If you put $350 million for Machado on the table with a deadline, and next week he signed for $325 with the Phillies and you got nothing, wouldn't you feel pretty f***ing stupid for your negotiating tactic? Manny is not saying no to 350. and if we were indeed 25 million more than the Phillies with a sweetener....he would have already signed after the yankees news came out.
January 11, 20197 yr 3 minutes ago, EloyJenkins said: He risks the sox getting into a bidding war with the phillies that pushes both of them out of machado. Machado would literally have no REAL suitors right now if Sox and Phils both go full bore at Bryce. I realize that the loser of Bryce would most likely go back to Machado, but this is a very odd market with very few suitors. It's really unbelievable to be honest. The White Sox would be stupid to get pulled into that when they created spots for literally 5 players on the active roster because of their connections to Machado...
January 11, 20197 yr 1 minute ago, EloyJenkins said: Manny is not saying no to 350. and if we were indeed 25 million more than the Phillies with a sweetener....he would have already signed after the yankees news came out. Fine, if you said "Here's our offer at $280 it's available for 24 hours", and you refused to make it again, and he wound up accepting 7/$250 from the Phillies in 2 weeks, wouldn't you feel really dumb?
January 11, 20197 yr 2 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: If you put $350 million for Machado on the table with a deadline, and next week he signed for $325 with the Phillies and you got nothing, wouldn't you feel pretty f***ing stupid for your negotiating tactic? I'm not sure what you mean by this. You're not giving a deadline and you're not saying you wouldn't be willing to negotiate later. You're acknowledging the current uncertainty in the market with a Harper/Phillies meeting that could go in different directions. If Harper signs with the Phillies tomorrow, why would the Sox up their offer. You're giving Lozano/Manny a way to mitigate that risk right now if they want by offering the extra year.
January 11, 20197 yr 3 minutes ago, Roughneck said: Not true if Rick Hahn goes into the board room during negotiations and drops his nuts on the table. No. Nuts stay on the table. First lesson in negotiating is you might lose your nuts if you aren't careful.
January 11, 20197 yr 1 minute ago, G&T said: No. Nuts stay on the table. First lesson in negotiating is you might lose your nuts if you aren't careful. Have a feeling we don't have Machado resolution until mid next week
January 11, 20197 yr 1 minute ago, Perfect Vision said: I'm not sure what you mean by this. You're not giving a deadline and you're not saying you wouldn't be willing to negotiate later. You're acknowledging the current uncertainty in the market with a Harper/Phillies meeting that could go in different directions. If Harper signs with the Phillies tomorrow, why would the Sox up their offer. You're giving Lozano/Manny a way to mitigate that risk right now if they want by offering the extra year. exactly this. If Phils sign with Bryce this weekend, White Sox have no real competition on Manny...unless a "mystery" team is willing to pay more than 275 (which is most likely around our current offer)
January 11, 20197 yr 1 minute ago, Balta1701 said: Fine, if you said "Here's our offer at $280 it's available for 24 hours", and you refused to make it again, and he wound up accepting 7/$250 from the Phillies in 2 weeks, wouldn't you feel really dumb? Not only that, but you’re unlikely to get much back for Jay, Alonso, Castillo, Nova or Colome when half of their reason for being on the roster just went out the door (especially the first three guys).
January 11, 20197 yr 4 minutes ago, caulfield12 said: The White Sox would be stupid to get pulled into that when they created spots for literally 5 players on the active roster because of their connections to Machado... ever heard of pot odds? they'd be stupid to invest all that and fold.
January 11, 20197 yr 1 minute ago, steveno89 said: Have a feeling we don't have Machado resolution until mid next week Well one of our sources may have an update tomorrow.
January 11, 20197 yr Just now, Saufley said: Well one of our sources may have an update tomorrow. I think the Harper meeting is going to be pretty influential tomorrow as to what plays out with Machado
January 11, 20197 yr 7 minutes ago, Perfect Vision said: I'm not sure what you mean by this. You're not giving a deadline and you're not saying you wouldn't be willing to negotiate later. You're acknowledging the current uncertainty in the market with a Harper/Phillies meeting that could go in different directions. If Harper signs with the Phillies tomorrow, why would the Sox up their offer. You're giving Lozano/Manny a way to mitigate that risk right now if they want by offering the extra year. The odds of an ARod like deal with stupid money and Boras conceding this early in the process are pretty low. That said, there’s a ton of pressure on the Phillies while they have Harper’s full attention to do exactly that. They probably can’t afford to wait two more years on Trout...and still be stuck treading water in the middle of a contention window as a low 80’s win team. Edited January 11, 20197 yr by caulfield12
January 11, 20197 yr 7 minutes ago, Perfect Vision said: I'm not sure what you mean by this. You're not giving a deadline and you're not saying you wouldn't be willing to negotiate later. You're acknowledging the current uncertainty in the market with a Harper/Phillies meeting that could go in different directions. If Harper signs with the Phillies tomorrow, why would the Sox up their offer. You're giving Lozano/Manny a way to mitigate that risk right now if they want by offering the extra year. Then your 24 hour deadline is not a deadline.
January 11, 20197 yr 2 minutes ago, caulfield12 said: Not only that, but you’re unlikely to get much back for Jay, Alonso, Castillo, Nova or Colome when half of their reason for being on the roster just went out the door (especially the first three guys). I do agree with this. But all these guys will contribute to the team this year as a bridge to Prospects or new signings next year. I am not saying it's the right move...just simply a move worth thinking about. No one knows if any kind of time frame deals from either side have been addressed.
January 11, 20197 yr 6 minutes ago, Roughneck said: But that is only a threat if there is an alternative for the Sox. "Either we sign Machado longterm of we add this pitcher for 5 years and the OF for 4." That's not the case. They are signing nobody else. That "pot sweetener" will still be there at a later date, and at that point the Sox will essentially be crawling back to Machado. Also, the longer you let this go on, the more you risk another team making a trade and opening up payroll to sign Machado. So you might alienate Machado, make him stay away for another few weeks, and then have to offer a whole lot more since there's now a new bidder. The Sox would be smart to be persistent, but not do something to alienate Manny. They need Machado a whole hell of a lot more than he needs them. Right, but in the end, all you can do is put your best foot forward and LISTEN to the player/agent's list of desires and you build trust by showing not promising the willingness to accommodate (without hurting your own organization). You fall back on some negotiation strategies that are built upon reaching mutual agreement and you hope for the best. You can't overlook the fact that Free Agency is a crapshoot. You can't force your will and hardball negotiation is a thing of the past. You are in this together--you share in the risk, and any possible positive outcome that comes of a long-term relationship--together. Don't ever overestimate your bargaining position and don't ever make assumptions that hinder putting your best foot forward. Walking away is an acceptable outcome if you have genuinely put your best foot forward and painted your organization in the best light possible while showcasing basic human respect and decency for the person in each free agent and for the sport.
January 11, 20197 yr 2 minutes ago, EloyJenkins said: exactly this. If Phils sign with Bryce this weekend, White Sox have no real competition on Manny...unless a "mystery" team is willing to pay more than 275 (which is most likely around our current offer) But you're essentially saying "You aren't really worth this, but we'll give it to you today only." So you risk pissing Manny off. Even aside from a mystery team. Manny could sign a one-year deal for $40 mil and hit the market again next year. Or maybe Harper doesn't sign until February, and next week the Phillies sign Manny for less than our temporary offer because he doesn't want to deal with us anymore. Here's how the bluff works: Manny still signs and plays somewhere in 2019, over $30 mil a year, for either a 1 year deal or longterm. Maybe he even goes one year with the Cubs just to stick it to the Sox. The White Sox miss out on a generational talent, have no franchise player and set their rebuild back a long way, the fanbase burns the park to the ground, they are laughed at nationally, and future agents don't want to deal with them after word gets out of how they dealt with Manny. It doesn't seem worth it to act a tough guy and try to intimidate them into signing today.
January 11, 20197 yr 2 minutes ago, EloyJenkins said: I do agree with this. But all these guys will contribute to the team this year as a bridge to Prospects or new signings next year. I am not saying it's the right move...just simply a move worth thinking about. No one knows if any kind of time frame deals from either side have been addressed. If any of those guys had “bargain” or value contracts, that would be one thing. They’re all fairly paid, or arguably overpaid in terms of their placeholder value. Without Machado, they’re worth even less to the White Sox, and that fact would hardly increase their value on the demand side to the rest of MLB teams.
January 11, 20197 yr If Bryce signs with the Phillies tomorrow it's gonna take forever for machado to sign
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