1 minute ago, jenksycat said:

Is it?  You said Pollock will be a 4-5 year commitment.  I'm saying he wouldn't as an oft injured 30 year old.  Also said he would be 12m+ more than Joc.  Joc is making 5m then arbitration so Pollock would have to be in the 20+ AAV then.  

Abreu just got 16M for the 2019 season. Pollock shouldn't have a problem getting at least that annually. But I agree it won't take 5 years to get him. I think he gets 3 for sure and maybe even 4. Hard to gage his market with teams waiting for Machado and Harper to sign. 

Man, once Machado and Harper sign there should be a flurry of signings and tons to talk about.

We see you there @raBBit. Give us some nighttime rumors!

 

34 minutes ago, whitesoxwinner said:

will there be moves made by the sox tomorrow? like for no, love for yes

P.S. @raBBit, nobody will see what your choice is

I don’t think the Sox are sitting on any transactions. Talking different types of trades.

1 minute ago, BlackSox13 said:

Abreu just got 16M for the 2019 season. Pollock shouldn't have a problem getting at least that annually. But I agree it won't take 5 years to get him. I think he gets 3 for sure and maybe even 4. Hard to gage his market with teams waiting for Machado and Harper to sign. 

Man, once Machado and Harper sign there should be a flurry of signings and tons to talk about.

That Jose Abreu is getting paid more than he would get on the FA market does not mean that all players on the FA market will get more than they are worth.

2 minutes ago, raBBit said:

 

I don’t think the Sox are sitting on any transactions. Talking different types of trades.

Any updates you can share with us in regards to Machado?

1 hour ago, Chicago White Sox said:

I honestly don’t think Balta was exaggerating when he said that.  

Regardless, I think it’s too early to say what we have with our rotation.  I think Rodon & Lopez have higher ceilings than #3 starters.  I’m not high on Giolito right now, but at his best last year he flashed #3 starter ability.  Nova’s upside is limited, but at worst is a capable #5 type.  We definitely need to add another starter if we intend on competing next year.  And even then we’d two of those three young guys to take big leaps forward, but at least it’s in the realm of possibility.

I think we're discounting a few things.

We know Kopech's situation, but with Cease/Dunning and possibly Hansen, that should provide at LEAST 2 more options.

Then you have the free agency market (at least 5 REALLY good pitchers that are all 100% "win now" besides Sale)...the #3 draft pick for another high-rising college pitcher (if it's not Vaughn, Adley or Witt) AND international free agency.

1 minute ago, caulfield12 said:

I think we're discounting a few things.

We know Kopech's situation, but with Cease/Dunning and possibly Hansen, that should provide at LEAST 2 more options.

Then you have the free agency market (at least 5 REALLY good pitchers that are all 100% "win now" besides Sale)...the #3 draft pick for another high-rising college pitcher (if it's not Vaughn, Adley or Witt) AND international free agency.

Cease, Dunning, Hansen, and a 2019 draft pick to be selected in June are all poor options for the 2019 White Sox opening day rotation. 

18 minutes ago, jenksycat said:

Is it?  You said Pollock will be a 4-5 year commitment.  I'm saying he wouldn't as an oft injured 30 year old.  Also said he would be 12m+ more than Joc.  Joc is making 5m then arbitration so Pollock would have to be in the 20+ AAV then.  

Pollock is already 31.

He's a lot like Harper, in that his one peak (and 100% healthy) season makes you think he could almost be a superstar.

The problem is that the rest of his career suggests at 2.5-3.0 value player, not unlike Joc Pederson, except Pederson's only 26 years old and has been able to stay relatively healthy.

Pederson has the 2017 season counting against him, when he managed something like a 0.6 fWAR.

Everyone projected Pollock at around 5 and $80 coming into the offseason, but it seems that's falling back towards 3-4 years....but, then again, who knows what the heck happens to the market once Harper and Machado are gone.

1 minute ago, Whitesox27 said:

Any updates you can share with us in regards to Machado?

No actually. I don’t think anything has changed in terms of Sox chances. Lozano is both a nuisance and holding out for the best offer possible. Sox have nothing to do but wait

 

7 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Cease, Dunning, Hansen, and a 2019 draft pick to be selected in June are all poor options for the 2019 White Sox opening day rotation. 

Okay, so we're back to competing in 2019.

That requires Pederson and Hill...a second-half contribution (rather large) from Cease/Dunning and possibly signing Kimbrel.

Or Miley/Gonzalez/Pomeranz signing to a short-term deal and the Pederson deal requiring more talent going back to LAD.

(I'm in agreement that drafting for need for the current MLB season, see Burdi, doesn't usually work out.  Sale was such a unique exception, somehow he became the norm based on the ease in which he transitioned in 2010.)

Edited January 22, 20197 yr by caulfield12

6 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

That Jose Abreu is getting paid more than he would get on the FA market does not mean that all players on the FA market will get more than they are worth.

Fair point about Abreu. Still don't think Pollock getting 17M annually is that much of a stretch. Though I sure as hell wouldn't pay him that. Harper's next contract is going to raise the bar for outfielders and Pollock will benefit from it. I think it's why he hasn't signed yet.

Timely article. 

 

5 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Timely article. 

 

As long as we don't see any accompanying article about Bryce Bush being the fastest rising high school signee from 2019!

Heck, a Jace Fry "puff piece" would even be okay.

 

So who is Merkin trying to convince, Sox fans or the dodgers front office? 

Seriously tho. The pitching repertoire is there and everything except the four seam FB has good movement. Just can't locate it. 

12 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Timely article. 

 

Merk had a weird article about Zack Collins possibly being ready in 2019 one day before Narvaez was surprisingly dealt.  Not sure what that has to do with a seemingly more normal article about Fulmer... unless he had it stashed away to run during Spring training but decided he better run it now because....

Edited January 22, 20197 yr by GREEDY

6 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

As long as we don't see any accompanying article about Bryce Bush being the fastest rising high school signee from 2019!

Heck, a Jace Fry "puff piece" would even be okay.

 

How about a puff piece convincing us Bush will be rhe next Tatis Jr, but better.

1 hour ago, elrockinMT said:

Platoon with Engel. Pederson sucked against lefties 

And Engel sucked against righties and lefties.

1 hour ago, whitesoxwinner said:

will there be moves made by the sox tomorrow? like for no, love for yes

P.S. @raBBit, nobody will see what your choice is

Shameless grandstanding ! HAHA you will get nothing from me. I like the originality though and shall think of you in some way when it is repeated by others.

35 minutes ago, jenksycat said:

Is it?  You said Pollock will be a 4-5 year commitment.  I'm saying he wouldn't as an oft injured 30 year old.  Also said he would be 12m+ more than Joc.  Joc is making 5m then arbitration so Pollock would have to be in the 20+ AAV then.  

Dude... come on now you're stretching things to fit some narrative or to try and force an argument. 

I didn't mention money. I simply was adding on to the last comment that it would be a 4-5 year commitment when we have OF's that are coming up hopefully sooner than that. Would seem foolish to lock into that for as you say.. an oft injured CF.

 

Also, just for arguments sake .... you do realize that $12mm + $5mm is $17mm right? Also your argument is FOR an oft injured 30 year old and signing him for more money? I'm just not really getting any of your points..

 

Also if you want to talk money guesses.. I'd guess Pollock gets 4/$60mm or so. He's not settling for a McCutchen deal at 3 years. So my guess is 4 years at $15mm with a possible buyout or option for a 5th... again it doesn't really matter, the point is theres no reason to lock into a 4 or 5 year commitment when you have other cheaper, shorter term, less injured options out there and when you have OF prospects that should be up sooner than that timeframe.

Yeah, the last 3 years (combined), Pederson is at a 521 OPS against LHP.

That's Moncada (2019) or Jose Valentin imbalanced.

 

In 2015, he was at 692, though....that's the last season before the Dodgers gave up playing him against most lefties.   They would have to decide whether to send Engel to AAA to play full-time, trade him or just give him at-bats against the really tough LH pitchers.

 

14 minutes ago, BrianAnderson said:

Dude... come on now you're stretching things to fit some narrative or to try and force an argument. 

I didn't mention money. I simply was adding on to the last comment that it would be a 4-5 year commitment when we have OF's that are coming up hopefully sooner than that. Would seem foolish to lock into that for as you say.. an oft injured CF.

 

Also, just for arguments sake .... you do realize that $12mm + $5mm is $17mm right? Also your argument is FOR an oft injured 30 year old and signing him for more money? I'm just not really getting any of your points..

 

Also if you want to talk money guesses.. I'd guess Pollock gets 4/$60mm or so. He's not settling for a McCutchen deal at 3 years. So my guess is 4 years at $15mm with a possible buyout or option for a 5th... again it doesn't really matter, the point is theres no reason to lock into a 4 or 5 year commitment when you have other cheaper, shorter term, less injured options out there and when you have OF prospects that should be up sooner than that timeframe.

Age 31/32/33 seasons make a lot more sense than 34/35 for this franchise, at this particular place and moment in time.  Also can't imagine them giving up the draft pick if they can trade some riff-raff off the 40 man without parting with a Top 10-15 overall prospect to get someone like Pederson.

With all the injuries, some would view him as even older than 31 in terms of wear and tear on his body.

 

Edited January 22, 20197 yr by caulfield12

2 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Yeah, the last 3 years (combined), Pederson is at a 521 OPS against LHP.

That's Moncada (2019) or Jose Valentin imbalanced.

 

In 2015, he was at 692, though....that's the last season before the Dodgers gave up playing him against most lefties.   They would have to decide whether to send Engel to AAA to play full-time, trade him or just give him at-bats against the really tough LH pitchers.

 

Considering Engel had a .589 OPS against lefties in 2018, probably would be better off bringing on someone that can be a productive platoon partner.

15 minutes ago, bschmaranz said:

Considering Engel had a .589 OPS against lefties in 2018, probably would be better off bringing on someone that can be a productive platoon partner.

Yeah there's got to be a better option if they're actually trying to be a .500 ballclub this season...and maybe having an outside shot at competing for the WC or division if Cleveland suffers some major pitching injuries or Jose Ramirez becomes a lesser version of himself.

Too bad no Avi in CF, lol.

Edited January 22, 20197 yr by caulfield12

24 minutes ago, BrianAnderson said:

Dude... come on now you're stretching things to fit some narrative or to try and force an argument. 

I didn't mention money. I simply was adding on to the last comment that it would be a 4-5 year commitment when we have OF's that are coming up hopefully sooner than that. Would seem foolish to lock into that for as you say.. an oft injured CF.

 

Also, just for arguments sake .... you do realize that $12mm + $5mm is $17mm right? Also your argument is FOR an oft injured 30 year old and signing him for more money? I'm just not really getting any of your points..

 

Also if you want to talk money guesses.. I'd guess Pollock gets 4/$60mm or so. He's not settling for a McCutchen deal at 3 years. So my guess is 4 years at $15mm with a possible buyout or option for a 5th... again it doesn't really matter, the point is theres no reason to lock into a 4 or 5 year commitment when you have other cheaper, shorter term, less injured options out there and when you have OF prospects that should be up sooner than that timeframe.

Arbitration = Joc will make more than 5m in year 2

Michael Brantley just signed a 2/32 and Mccutchen got slightly overpaid at 3/50, both 1 year older.  AJ Pollock is not getting more than 3 years and isn't going to blow away either of those.

So again, for a few million more get a similar player without trading any assets.

2 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

With as many free agent OFs as are out there still,  I am not entirely convinced that Pederson should have a large trade value.  Instead of moving assets, why wouldn't they chase someone else?

Pederson has a 140 wRC+ vs RHP and likely comes recommended from the new hitting coach.