Rick Hahn and his Trades = Sox Talk and their tirades.

4 minutes ago, mqr said:

If the amount of credit he gives to Ron Washington is to be taken seriously, then doubtful. And I believe a lot of his defensive value is helped by playing next to chapman, not that he hasn't greatly improved.

Even the year when he was a terrible fielder you could already see him saying "Washington spent 10 minutes with me and made positive suggestions and was the first person doing drills with me at SS Since college". 

6 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Even the year when he was a terrible fielder you could already see him saying "Washington spent 10 minutes with me and made positive suggestions and was the first person doing drills with me at SS Since college". 

It’s amazing that Semien was managed in two seasons by a six time Gold Glove third baseman and the manager couldn’t teach him anything.  It just goes to show that great players don’t always make great managers, even though the Sox organization seems to think so.

Edited August 12, 20196 yr by Moan4Yoan

Just now, Moan4Yoan said:

Amazing that Semien was managed for over a season by a six time Gold Glove 3B and the manager couldn’t teach him anything.  It just goes to show that great players don’t always make great managers, even though the Sox organization seems to think so.

It's out of date now, but I thought at the time that a big part of the organization's minor league philosophy was more "don't screw this guy up and let him learn on his own" rather than "We need to work hard with this guy". That this perspective also provided them a ready made excuse for the coaching staff to not have to put in extra work...was probably more than just a coincidence. So when guys came up that clearly did need work, rather than doing it themselves, they shipped them away.

53 minutes ago, Moan4Yoan said:

This is a great point.  Does he develop the same way with the Sox if he wasn’t traded?

One thing is for sure, even if he was good enough he wouldn't be in the majors this year with the Sox.

47 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Even the year when he was a terrible fielder you could already see him saying "Washington spent 10 minutes with me and made positive suggestions and was the first person doing drills with me at SS Since college". 

"At SS" is probably the key part of that post. The Sox wanted him at 2b or 3b. 

Edited August 12, 20196 yr by TaylorStSox

As long as Tatis was brought up, I am posting this from a piece in the Athletic today that makes me sick all over again. I still think the Tatis trade may leave the Sox short one super player from being real contenders. Only another World Series appearance title would push this horrific error into the past.  (Yet the Padres aren't much better than we are, even with Tatis and Machado.)

2. Fernando Tatis, SS, San Diego Padres 
WAR: 4.3
OPS+: 161
Slash line: .320/.383/.600
Tatis has been a human highlight film in the field and on the bases, with 13 doubles, six triples, 22 home runs and 16 stolen bases. He’s one of the most complete rookie players we have ever seen, and he’s accomplishing things that no other shortstop under the age of 21 has ever done, such as his 22 homers, which already surpass Alex Rodriguez’s 21 in 1996. Tatis also has a staggering 30 multiple-hit games and has failed to hit in just 16 of the games he’s played. It’s amazing to think Tatis missed a month because of a pulled hamstring. His energy, enthusiasm, quick-twitch muscles and athleticism make him a must-watch.

4 minutes ago, VAfan said:

As long as Tatis was brought up, I am posting this from a piece in the Athletic today that makes me sick all over again. I still think the Tatis trade may leave the Sox short one super player from being real contenders. Only another World Series appearance title would push this horrific error into the past.  (Yet the Padres aren't much better than we are, even with Tatis and Machado.)

2. Fernando Tatis, SS, San Diego Padres 
WAR: 4.3
OPS+: 161
Slash line: .320/.383/.600
Tatis has been a human highlight film in the field and on the bases, with 13 doubles, six triples, 22 home runs and 16 stolen bases. He’s one of the most complete rookie players we have ever seen, and he’s accomplishing things that no other shortstop under the age of 21 has ever done, such as his 22 homers, which already surpass Alex Rodriguez’s 21 in 1996. Tatis also has a staggering 30 multiple-hit games and has failed to hit in just 16 of the games he’s played. It’s amazing to think Tatis missed a month because of a pulled hamstring. His energy, enthusiasm, quick-twitch muscles and athleticism make him a must-watch.

Fuckin' Hahn.

3 hours ago, Moan4Yoan said:

It’s amazing that Semien was managed in two seasons by a six time Gold Glove third baseman and the manager couldn’t teach him anything.  It just goes to show that great players don’t always make great managers, even though the Sox organization seems to think so.

Great players making great managers is the exception, rather than the rule.  Very few examples exist of great players also being great managers.  In fact, you could almost say, the worse the manager was as a player, the better he was as a manager.  Student of the game and all that.  Like the old bromide goes:  them that can, do; them that can't, teach".

1 hour ago, VAfan said:

As long as Tatis was brought up, I am posting this from a piece in the Athletic today that makes me sick all over again. I still think the Tatis trade may leave the Sox short one super player from being real contenders. Only another World Series appearance title would push this horrific error into the past.  (Yet the Padres aren't much better than we are, even with Tatis and Machado.)

2. Fernando Tatis, SS, San Diego Padres 
WAR: 4.3
OPS+: 161
Slash line: .320/.383/.600
Tatis has been a human highlight film in the field and on the bases, with 13 doubles, six triples, 22 home runs and 16 stolen bases. He’s one of the most complete rookie players we have ever seen, and he’s accomplishing things that no other shortstop under the age of 21 has ever done, such as his 22 homers, which already surpass Alex Rodriguez’s 21 in 1996. Tatis also has a staggering 30 multiple-hit games and has failed to hit in just 16 of the games he’s played. It’s amazing to think Tatis missed a month because of a pulled hamstring. His energy, enthusiasm, quick-twitch muscles and athleticism make him a must-watch.

And he’s actually not locked in right now, despite having a recent hitting streak (usually just one hit per game.)  On the defensive side, he’s now up to 18 errors...most of them made since he returned in June from the hamstring strain, and the majority have been made on throws he shouldn’t have made to start a DP or forced because his arm is one of the best in the sport and he loves to show it off.

That said, he usually makes 2-3 highlight reel plays per game, so it all cancels out.  He’s going to have to learn when to throttle it back, but that will come from play more meaningful games, rather than just playing out the season well below .500.

Edited August 12, 20196 yr by caulfield12

3 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

It's out of date now, but I thought at the time that a big part of the organization's minor league philosophy was more "don't screw this guy up and let him learn on his own" rather than "We need to work hard with this guy". That this perspective also provided them a ready made excuse for the coaching staff to not have to put in extra work...was probably more than just a coincidence. So when guys came up that clearly did need work, rather than doing it themselves, they shipped them away.

Tyler Flowers would be another example of a player they gave up on who went on to improve elsewhere...ironically, with his original/drafting organization, the Braves (who actually seem to know what they’re doing.)

Can we just have ol 2004 Juan Uribe back to make all this go away?

6 minutes ago, Charlie Haeger's Knuckles said:

Can we just have ol 2004 Juan Uribe back to make all this go away?

The Aaron Miles fanclub was so traumatized by that move...looking back, it’s pretty hilarious how some become so devoted to certain prospects that they lose all perspective.

Miles -0.7 career fWAR

Uribe 22.7 career fWAR (8.8 w Sox, 7.2 with the Dodgers in 2013-14)

Rick Hahn and his Trades = Sox Talk and their tirades.

4 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

The Aaron Miles fanclub was so traumatized by that move...looking back, it’s pretty hilarious how some become so devoted to certain prospects that they lose all perspective.

Miles -0.7 career fWAR

Uribe 22.7 career fWAR (8.8 w Sox, 7.2 with the Dodgers in 2013-14)

Always a Uribe fan.  He benefited at the plate by having the great lineup in 2005.   He was one of those guys were he went they win.   

7 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

The Aaron Miles fanclub was so traumatized by that move...looking back, it’s pretty hilarious how some become so devoted to certain prospects that they lose all perspective.

Miles -0.7 career fWAR

Uribe 22.7 career fWAR (8.8 w Sox, 7.2 with the Dodgers in 2013-14)

He wasn't well-liked by Dodger fans in 2012....

 

this web site still cracks me up though...

Edited August 13, 20196 yr by Charlie Haeger's Knuckles

1 hour ago, Charlie Haeger's Knuckles said:

He wasn't well-liked by Dodger fans in 2012....

 

this web site still cracks me up though...

We would be elated if Tim Anderson averaged a 3.6 fWAR the next two seasons...

Every time I read this thread title I read it to the tune of Benny and the Jets

5 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

We would be elated if Tim Anderson averaged a 3.6 fWAR the next two seasons...

He's on a full season pace of 4 for this season so I don't know if I'd really be elated, or if he'd just be meeting expectations 

28 minutes ago, Jose Abreu said:

He's on a full season pace of 4 for this season so I don't know if I'd really be elated, or if he'd just be meeting expectations 

Meeting expectations.

14 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

The Aaron Miles fanclub was so traumatized by that move...looking back, it’s pretty hilarious how some become so devoted to certain prospects that they lose all perspective.

Miles -0.7 career fWAR

Uribe 22.7 career fWAR (8.8 w Sox, 7.2 with the Dodgers in 2013-14)

Some things never change.

17 hours ago, VAfan said:

As long as Tatis was brought up, I am posting this from a piece in the Athletic today that makes me sick all over again. I still think the Tatis trade may leave the Sox short one super player from being real contenders. Only another World Series appearance title would push this horrific error into the past.  (Yet the Padres aren't much better than we are, even with Tatis and Machado.)

2. Fernando Tatis, SS, San Diego Padres 
WAR: 4.3
OPS+: 161
Slash line: .320/.383/.600
Tatis has been a human highlight film in the field and on the bases, with 13 doubles, six triples, 22 home runs and 16 stolen bases. He’s one of the most complete rookie players we have ever seen, and he’s accomplishing things that no other shortstop under the age of 21 has ever done, such as his 22 homers, which already surpass Alex Rodriguez’s 21 in 1996. Tatis also has a staggering 30 multiple-hit games and has failed to hit in just 16 of the games he’s played. It’s amazing to think Tatis missed a month because of a pulled hamstring. His energy, enthusiasm, quick-twitch muscles and athleticism make him a must-watch.

That was my fear as well. The Tatis trade ends up costing us the rebuild. Only a world series would erase that.

1 hour ago, Jose Abreu said:

He's on a full season pace of 4 for this season so I don't know if I'd really be elated, or if he'd just be meeting expectations 

 

1 hour ago, poppysox said:

Meeting expectations.

He is meeting expectations and I am elated about it.

48 minutes ago, steveno89 said:

That was my fear as well. The Tatis trade ends up costing us the rebuild. Only a world series would erase that.

But the question then becomes.. does the Tatis Jr trade put Rick Han in league with Steve Phillips for all time worst GMs in the history of baseball?

He's definitely in the team photo.   

1 hour ago, Charlie Haeger's Knuckles said:

But the question then becomes.. does the Tatis Jr trade put Rick Han in league with Steve Phillips for all time worst GMs in the history of baseball?

If Robert becomes a similar superstar, he might get out of the penalty box...unless you prefer to credit KW and Hahn instead.

The storyline is already shifting from Guerrero Jr./Eloy this season to the pursuit of more well-rounded players, and the ultimate importance of speed, defense, base running, etc.

Robert, Madrigal, Moncada and Anderson will have to lead the way for the rest.

Edited August 13, 20196 yr by caulfield12