5 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

I felt that way until his AAA promotion. You cant just let the guy hit 350 with tons of bombs and steals in AAA for the rest of the year. Can you?

Sure. 

They could, but I'm curious as to what their excuse will be for keeping him down. They can't really blame defense, plate discipline, etc. so by promoting him prior to August, they put themselves in an uncomfortable situation

1 minute ago, Jose Abreu said:

They could, but I'm curious as to what their excuse will be for keeping him down. They can't really blame defense, plate discipline, etc. so by promoting him prior to August, they put themselves in an uncomfortable situation

Maybe a dumb question, but if they can work out an extension with Robert similar to Eloy's, there's really nothing lost by bringing him up in August or September this year, right?  I guess they'd lose some leverage on negotiating that extension in the offseason.  

29 minutes ago, GermanSoxFan said:

So the speculation  that his arm was going be amputated was premature? Shocking. 

You mean he won't have to have Tommy John on both elbows?

3 minutes ago, bighurt574 said:

Maybe a dumb question, but if they can work out an extension with Robert similar to Eloy's, there's really nothing lost by bringing him up in August or September this year, right?  I guess they'd lose some leverage on negotiating that extension in the offseason.  

Correct, and many have floated the idea, but Robert has little incentive to sign an extension because he got such a big signing bonus relative to Eloy/other young players who signed extensions. It's the same reason I don't see us extending Moncada (or at least not until he hits the open market)

18 minutes ago, Jose Abreu said:

Correct, and many have floated the idea, but Robert has little incentive to sign an extension because he got such a big signing bonus relative to Eloy/other young players who signed extensions. It's the same reason I don't see us extending Moncada (or at least not until he hits the open market)

Yeah, I guess he's not hurting for money and can hold out.  Still, the risk/reward is pretty similar.  For a guy who still hasn't played an MLB game, locking in another ~$40M while only giving up a year of free agency might still have some appeal.  

Edited July 17, 20196 yr by bighurt574

14 minutes ago, bighurt574 said:

Yeah, I guess he's not hurting for money and can hold out.  Still, the risk/reward is pretty similar.  For a guy who still hasn't played an MLB game, locking in another ~$40M while only giving up a year of free agency might still have some appeal.  

The bolded just isn't true, that's why it doesn't work with Robert. The risk with Eloy is that he comes up as a rookie and has a severe injury in his  first year or two - that leaves him walking out of baseball with $1-2 million career earnings if he doesn't extend, and now he has a guaranteed $30 million thanks to the extension. He has "At least I'm set for life" money due to the extension. 

Robert already signed for $25 million. He has "At least I'm set for life" money already. For Robert, if he gets hurt, he doesn't have to find a new livelihood, at least not immediately. For Robert or Moncada, their next level is "bragging  money" or whatever you wanna call it. They have no reason to sign an extension until they're good enough that the extension is going to pay them like $200 million. And with both of those guys, they're still drawing a paycheck of $600k a year once they're up for the first 2 years, and then they can look forward to another $10 million payday in year 1 of arbitration, so they won't be hurting for cash unless they have a serious problem.

3 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

Just so someone keeps saying this...

Both of Eloy's injuries are the kind of thing that should be limited by effective coaches working with these outfielders. 

Too bad Jimmy Piersall isn't still alive. The Sox haven't had a good coach working with their outfielders since he used to back in the day. 

22 minutes ago, bighurt574 said:

Yeah, I guess he's not hurting for money and can hold out.  Still, the risk/reward is pretty similar.  For a guy who still hasn't played an MLB game, locking in another ~$40M while only giving up a year of free agency might still have some appeal.  

“According to a report, Minnesota tried to extend outfielders Byron Buxton and Max Kepler, right-hander Jose Berrios and two other unnamed young players, but all five players turned down the long-term deal. MLB teams have long used long-term extensions to buy out young stars' remaining years of arbitration eligibility in exchange for more monetary security for the players. The Twins young stars refusal to sign long-term deals does not mean they don't plan to stay with the team, but simply that they believe they will be worth more in the future than what the team offered them.”

 

Guessing the other players were some combination of Rosario, Sano or Polanco....and guessing there’s no way the White Sox could come up with what Rodon/Boras (past tense), Robert or Moncada feel they’re worth.

To complicate things even more, Giolito’s family is extremely wealthy.

That just leaves McCann.

The myth of Hahn: Master Negotiator, will be greatly tested.  Including Anderson, he’s had four successes in this arena.  And it’s not like it’s a sure thing the Jimenez deal will be a great bargain,  if solely measured by fWAR.

Edited July 17, 20196 yr by caulfield12

 

I hope Eloy is not the tin man, awful young to have 2 injuries already playing OF

6 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

“According to a report, Minnesota tried to extend outfielders Byron Buxton and Max Kepler, right-hander Jose Berrios and two other unnamed young players, but all five players turned down the long-term deal. MLB teams have long used long-term extensions to buy out young stars' remaining years of arbitration eligibility in exchange for more monetary security for the players. The Twins young stars refusal to sign long-term deals does not mean they don't plan to stay with the team, but simply that they believe they will be worth more in the future than what the team offered them.”

 

Guessing the other players were some combination of Rosario, Sano or Polanco....and guessing there’s no way they could come up with what Rodon/Boras (past tense), Robert or Moncada feel they’re worth.

To complicate things even more, Giolito’s family is extremely wealthy.

That just leaves McCann.

They did end up extending both Kepler and Polanco.  

2 minutes ago, Sleepy Harold said:

 

Good news.  

2 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

They did end up extending both Kepler and Polanco.  

Polanco is actually a case quite similar to Giolito...went from the depths of underperformance to All Star/Cy Young in half a season.

 

1 minute ago, caulfield12 said:

Polanco is actually a case quite similar to Giolito...went from the depths of underperformance to All Star/Cy Young in half a season.

Sure, I guess. Not even the strangest parallel you've drawn today.

Regression is smacking Polanco hard.  He's been just meh since May.  .243/.282/.359 last 30 days.  It was just a matter of time.  

37 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

The bolded just isn't true, that's why it doesn't work with Robert. The risk with Eloy is that he comes up as a rookie and has a severe injury in his  first year or two - that leaves him walking out of baseball with $1-2 million career earnings if he doesn't extend, and now he has a guaranteed $30 million thanks to the extension. He has "At least I'm set for life" money due to the extension. 

Robert already signed for $25 million. He has "At least I'm set for life" money already. For Robert, if he gets hurt, he doesn't have to find a new livelihood, at least not immediately. For Robert or Moncada, their next level is "bragging  money" or whatever you wanna call it. They have no reason to sign an extension until they're good enough that the extension is going to pay them like $200 million. And with both of those guys, they're still drawing a paycheck of $600k a year once they're up for the first 2 years, and then they can look forward to another $10 million payday in year 1 of arbitration, so they won't be hurting for cash unless they have a serious problem.

Yes and no.  After taxes, agent fees, and whatever he owes to people back in Cuba or wherever, I have to imagine another ~$40M would still have plenty of appeal, albeit not as much as if it were his first big contract.  Like I said, if he signs a deal similar to Eloy, he'd really only be giving up one FA year in exchange for a pretty sizable payday.  The rest is just buying out arb/pre-arb years.  All depends what he wants.  At this point, Moncada is different because he's already proven himself at the MLB level and has less risk of never getting that next big contract.  

Edited July 17, 20196 yr by bighurt574

2 hours ago, Jose Abreu said:

Paging @ptatc

My apologizes,  I was teaching a class this afternoon. This looks to be minor but he must have really whacked it for it to be bad enough to miss games. That really doesnt happen too often but nerves heal very slowly.

The other more serious possiblity is that you do stretching and "contuse" your ulnar nerve when you stretch the UCL. Hopefully it is a true contusion and not an injury to the UCL.

2 hours ago, Jose Abreu said:

Correct, and many have floated the idea, but Robert has little incentive to sign an extension because he got such a big signing bonus relative to Eloy/other young players who signed extensions. It's the same reason I don't see us extending Moncada (or at least not until he hits the open market)

He may not need the money but he would like to play in the majors now I presume.  Reasonable people can reach a reasonable accommodation.  Both sides want him in Chicago.  Get it worked out.

I do not agree with the assumptions about money. The guys who got a nice bonus still need more. They have 30 cousins and friends pestering them all the time. A pitcher would be concerned about arm injuries. 

2 hours ago, Soxfest said:

I hope Eloy is not the tin man, awful young to have 2 injuries already playing OF

He didn't hurt his jaw chewing gum and his foot jogging out to play the field. His foot twisted in the wall and his elbow got knocked by a grown up running full speed. Any player would be hurt in the same situation. Relax

Eloy's stints on the DL will stunt his stats enough to harm his chances for ROTY.  Sorry to see that.

Thank god.  I still say DH him more.

What an indictment of an absolute incompetent FO.

Or perhaps it's P.T. Barnum 2.0 pulling the strings that make them look so incompetent.

But whatever it  is,  it's not impacting their financial bottom line.

33 minutes ago, GradMc said:

What an indictment of an absolute incompetent FO.

Or perhaps it's P.T. Barnum 2.0 pulling the strings that make them look so incompetent.

But whatever it  is,  it's not impacting their financial bottom line.

That's the first thing I think of when someone gets injured too. What an incompetent FO.

1 hour ago, ptatc said:

That's the first thing I think of when someone gets injured too. What an incompetent FO.

In this case I agree with you (I know you are being sarcastic in this instance) although you could make the case that knowing how bad of a fielder he is, letting him stay in left field instead of insisting he become a DH could be viewed as a bad decision.