12 minutes ago, wegner said:

How about a 1 year contract with an option year 2?  Doubtful that Vaughan is up next year, at least not at the beginning of the year.  Plus the option year might yield more in a trade next year if Jose gets hot.

From Jose's perspective I'm not sure what incentive he has to take an option year given that he's hoping for 2020 as a bounceback year into a multi-year deal most likely.

1 minute ago, chitownsportsfan said:

From Jose's perspective I'm not sure what incentive he has to take an option year given that he's hoping for 2020 as a bounceback year into a multi-year deal most likely.

I'm just not sure there is much of a market out there for him but I definitely see your point.

12 hours ago, Lip Man 1 said:

Hahn has publicly hinted recently that he expects Jose' to be with the organization for a long time. I personally think they will extend him. Not saying that's good or bad, that's the world of the White Sox.

Oh and getting J.D. Martinez to sign here is a fantasy.

Jose will stay 2-3 years he is their leader

Why on earth cherry pick OBP? His SLG is excellent this year - only Moncada is higher on the team. You have a tendency to choose to focus on stats to fit your narrative, rather than letting the stats speak for themselves. I suppose you'd rather he walked 16 more times than homered?

Abreu has proven you wrong in literally every year you've posted these threads. Isn't it just possible that you're just... wrong about this guy?

If he finishes this season with above an .820 OPS I'd extend him two years, then DFA him in 2021 if the decline does happen then. Bottom line, we need him for next season and anything in the neighborhood of $15 million is fine. I'm not concerned with whether it's a waste of money either - the White Sox saved $300 million from the Machado fiasco, so spending it on a guy who has been productive and loyal part of this organization throughout this awful era is money well spent even if he does decline slightly. 

Oh, and what we are talking about at this point is still a slight decline. He is on pace for career highs in homers and doubles this year.

47 minutes ago, Greg Hibbard said:

Why on earth cherry pick OBP? His SLG is excellent this year - only Moncada is higher on the team. You have a tendency to choose to focus on stats to fit your narrative, rather than letting the stats speak for themselves. I suppose you'd rather he walked 16 more times than homered?

Abreu has proven you wrong in literally every year you've posted these threads. Isn't it just possible that you're just... wrong about this guy?

If he finishes this season with above an .820 OPS I'd extend him two years, then DFA him in 2021 if the decline does happen then. Bottom line, we need him for next season and anything in the neighborhood of $15 million is fine. I'm not concerned with whether it's a waste of money either - the White Sox saved $300 million from the Machado fiasco, so spending it on a guy who has been productive and loyal part of this organization throughout this awful era is money well spent even if he does decline slightly. 

Oh, and what we are talking about at this point is still a slight decline. He is on pace for career highs in homers and doubles this year.

We have a league and park and slash adjusted stat called wRC+ that encapsulates a players value at the dish relative to everbody else: Jose has a 104 wRC+.

Ironically, your rant cherry picked SLG to defend his value while ranting about others doing it.  

Jose is stuck at .2 fWAR.  He's now at  1.4 fWAR in his last 200 fucking games.  That's a 1 WAR PLAYER!

I have a Jose Abreu signed baseball and it remains one of my favorite Sox moments when he signed for me in 2014 and then won ROY.  But that doesn't color my analysis of his value in 2019 and in the future.  

Edited June 12, 20196 yr by chitownsportsfan

14 hours ago, fathom said:

I think your best chance to have a killer offense going forward is Vaughn at 1B, JDM at DH and Eloy in LF.  The goal should be to put together the best offense possible, and not just keep someone around because they're "good for the clubhouse".

In other words, see this thread:

 

1 hour ago, chitownsportsfan said:

We have a league and park and slash adjusted stat called wRC+ that encapsulates a players value at the dish relative to everbody else: Jose has a 104 wRC+.

Ironically, your rant cherry picked SLG to defend his value while ranting about others doing it.  

 Jose is stuck at .2 fWAR.  He's now at  1.4 fWAR in his last 200 fucking games.  That's a 1 WAR PLAYER!

 I have a Jose Abreu signed baseball and it remains one of my favorite Sox moments when he signed for me in 2014 and then won ROY.  But that doesn't color my analysis of his value in 2019 and in the future.  

I'd argue that it's also cherry picking, or at least disingenuous, to present his 2019 fWAR and wRC+ without accounting for the extremely low BABIP relative to his normal mark. 

Edited June 12, 20196 yr by Jose Abreu

1 minute ago, Jose Abreu said:

I'd argue that it's also cherry picking, or at least disingenuous, to present his 2019 fWAR and wRC+ without accounting for the extremely low BABIP relative to his normal mark. 

He's a 2 WAR true talent player.  Would you agree?  

1 minute ago, chitownsportsfan said:

He's a 2 WAR true talent player.  Would you agree?  

At this point, yes. I said earlier in the thread that there's probably not a fit for him on this team anymore past 2020. I just think he has been unlucky, and by the end of the season it will normalize somewhat. Just not to the point where he's 2014-2017 Abreu. 

4 minutes ago, Jose Abreu said:

At this point, yes. I said earlier in the thread that there's probably not a fit for him on this team anymore past 2020. I just think he has been unlucky, and by the end of the season it will normalize somewhat. Just not to the point where he's 2014-2017 Abreu. 

Yea I agree, he's been a bit unlucky but his future in Chicago doesn't really change as a result.

I hope they deal him before July 31st, personally 

3 hours ago, chitownsportsfan said:

We have a league and park and slash adjusted stat called wRC+ that encapsulates a players value at the dish relative to everbody else: Jose has a 104 wRC+.

Ironically, your rant cherry picked SLG to defend his value while ranting about others doing it.  

Jose is stuck at .2 fWAR.  He's now at  1.4 fWAR in his last 200 fucking games.  That's a 1 WAR PLAYER!

I have a Jose Abreu signed baseball and it remains one of my favorite Sox moments when he signed for me in 2014 and then won ROY.  But that doesn't color my analysis of his value in 2019 and in the future.  

Wouldn't be you without an f word or two. How old are you? I would recommend creative writing. 

So, I don't see anyone having suggested this yet, but someone ought to.

How much is it worth to have Abreu on the roster when Robert comes up?

19 hours ago, ron883 said:

Abreu is sporting a very disappointing .290 OBP currently. It is no secret that he is on the decline. The dude can't field and is losing the ability to hit. Given our options for a 1st baseman and DH, do you see any reason to resign him? We've got Collins and Vaughn coming up in the near future. There are DH options in free agency like JD Martinez. Does Jose serve any purpose for this team next season and beyond? I think you gotta let him walk. He's a liability, especially when he demands that he play 1st base and not DH. 

                                                                                                                               

6 minutes ago, Fan O'Faust said:

                                                                                                                               

I agree with this guy, wiht his emoji, what he says about the original post that started this thread. It seems that we get one of these threads on here every two or three weeks and they're just stupid. I've said it over and over: Abreu is our best player. All-Star starter last year, only all-star. Only White Sox listed as one of top-100 players in the league at start of season (I admit that this list would probably include a couple more now). 

The original poster said, "It is no secret that he is on the decline." This is so stupid. Abreu seems well on his way to have career best  in home runs and RBIs. How is that on a "decline"? It's ridiculous to make that claim. Yes, his batting average is down, but Steve Stone addressed that saying that he's scarificing batting average for power and RBIs, launch angle and all that. He is tied for the league lead for RBIs and you talk like we should just let him go because he's falling apart? It makes no sense. 

You act like we'll just bring Collins up and he'll do what "declining" Abreu has been doing. Collins with his .262 average and 9 home runs in AAA?

Probably the funniest thing he said was that the Sox will just sign J. D. Martinez next year. Have you been following the White Sox organization at all? Could you please return to earth with the rest of us. 

And what bothers me the most is the people on here agreeing with this yutz. 

 

14 minutes ago, vilehoopster said:

I agree with this guy, wiht his emoji, what he says about the original post that started this thread. It seems that we get one of these threads on here every two or three weeks and they're just stupid. I've said it over and over: Abreu is our best player. All-Star starter last year, only all-star. Only White Sox listed as one of top-100 players in the league at start of season (I admit that this list would probably include a couple more now). 

The original poster said, "It is no secret that he is on the decline." This is so stupid. Abreu seems well on his way to have career best  in home runs and RBIs. How is that on a "decline"? It's ridiculous to make that claim. Yes, his batting average is down, but Steve Stone addressed that saying that he's scarificing batting average for power and RBIs, launch angle and all that. He is tied for the league lead for RBIs and you talk like we should just let him go because he's falling apart? It makes no sense. 

You act like we'll just bring Collins up and he'll do what "declining" Abreu has been doing. Collins with his .262 average and 9 home runs in AAA?

Probably the funniest thing he said was that the Sox will just sign J. D. Martinez next year. Have you been following the White Sox organization at all? Could you please return to earth with the rest of us. 

And what bothers me the most is the people on here agreeing with this yutz. 

 

You're using lousy statistics and making false claims such as "Abreu is our best player". Seriously? Abreu is not even close to our best player, and that is blatantly obvious. Can you say with a straight face that he is better than Tim, Yoan, or Giolito? Abreu has not be that great this year. He has a whopping .2 fWAR. Not great. 

5 hours ago, chitownsportsfan said:

We have a league and park and slash adjusted stat called wRC+ that encapsulates a players value at the dish relative to everbody else: Jose has a 104 wRC+.

Ironically, your rant cherry picked SLG to defend his value while ranting about others doing it.  

Jose is stuck at .2 fWAR.  He's now at  1.4 fWAR in his last 200 fucking games.  That's a 1 WAR PLAYER!

I have a Jose Abreu signed baseball and it remains one of my favorite Sox moments when he signed for me in 2014 and then won ROY.  But that doesn't color my analysis of his value in 2019 and in the future.  

wRC+ isn’t predictive and it’s very clear Jose has gotten unlucky this year based on the quality of his contact.  That’s not to say he’s extremely valuable, but he’s been better than his core numbers suggest.

11 minutes ago, ron883 said:

You're using lousy statistics and making false claims such as "Abreu is our best player". Seriously? Abreu is not even close to our best player, and that is blatantly obvious. Can you say with a straight face that he is better than Tim, Yoan, or Giolito? Abreu has not be that great this year. He has a whopping .2 fWAR. Not great. 

I've pointed this out before. He was the only Sox to make the all-star team last year. Now, I didn't put him as a starter on the all-star team last year, so some other people must think he's the Sox best player (at least last year). Also, MLB.com listed, at the start of the season, the 100 best players in the majors, Abreu was the only Sox player on that list. Again, I didn't make up that list. Now, I'm sure next year other Sox will be on that MLB.com list, but so will Abreu. You can, and I do, certainly argue that Abreu is our best player. That is a lot, a lot closer to the truth than to say he's obviously on a decline. 

And seriously, we have so many obsure stats to rate players. What the hell is fWar ( I know: wins above replacement, but what is the "f" thing). I like the thread on here where the guy talked about how the Sox team that won the World Series, all the everyday players had average WARs. Sorry, no way to do I think  that Joe Crede and A. J. were average league players that year. I have a ton more faith in leading the league in RBIs than an "fwar" of .2. 

2 minutes ago, vilehoopster said:

I've pointed this out before. He was the only Sox to make the all-star team last year. Now, I didn't put him as a starter on the all-star team last year, so some other people must think he's the Sox best player (at least last year). Also, MLB.com listed, at the start of the season, the 100 best players in the majors, Abreu was the only Sox player on that list. Again, I didn't make up that list. Now, I'm sure next year other Sox will be on that MLB.com list, but so will Abreu. You can, and I do, certainly argue that Abreu is our best player. That is a lot, a lot closer to the truth than to say he's obviously on a decline. 

And seriously, we have so many obsure stats to rate players. What the hell is fWar ( I know: wins above replacement, but what is the "f" thing). I like the thread on here where the guy talked about how the Sox team that won the World Series, all the everyday players had average WARs. Sorry, no way to do I think  that Joe Crede and A. J. were average league players that year. I have a ton more faith in leading the league in RBIs than an "fwar" of .2. 

Saying Abreu is our best player is nowhere near the truth. It's fantasy land. 

The world series thread shows how dominant our pitching staff was. 

So last year's all-star voting and that MLB.com list, that was fantasy land?  Those guys don't know anything?

2 hours ago, vilehoopster said:

I agree with this guy, wiht his emoji, what he says about the original post that started this thread. It seems that we get one of these threads on here every two or three weeks and they're just stupid. I've said it over and over: Abreu is our best player. All-Star starter last year, only all-star. Only White Sox listed as one of top-100 players in the league at start of season (I admit that this list would probably include a couple more now). 

The original poster said, "It is no secret that he is on the decline." This is so stupid. Abreu seems well on his way to have career best  in home runs and RBIs. How is that on a "decline"? It's ridiculous to make that claim. Yes, his batting average is down, but Steve Stone addressed that saying that he's scarificing batting average for power and RBIs, launch angle and all that. He is tied for the league lead for RBIs and you talk like we should just let him go because he's falling apart? It makes no sense. 

You act like we'll just bring Collins up and he'll do what "declining" Abreu has been doing. Collins with his .262 average and 9 home runs in AAA?

Probably the funniest thing he said was that the Sox will just sign J. D. Martinez next year. Have you been following the White Sox organization at all? Could you please return to earth with the rest of us. 

And what bothers me the most is the people on here agreeing with this yutz. 

 

Not only are you right but management considers him the leader of the rebuild and our Cuban ambassador. Once he stops digging in the dirt for crappy sliders he usually takes over the league for a couple weeks. Now let the teenagers spat over him for a while.

All star appearences and RBIs?  Really?

 

9 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

All star appearences and RBIs?  Really?

 

Jorge Soler is 5th in the AL in RBIs. Little known fact, but he is a top 10 player in the AL!

My beef with Jose is that he is one of the least athletic players in the league and he doesn't seem to care about his conditioning, judging by his appearance and his movement on the field. 

1 minute ago, pcq said:

My beef with Jose is that he is one of the least athletic players in the league and he doesn't seem to care about his conditioning, judging by his appearance and his movement on the field. 

At this point, it doesn’t matter much.  He’s old and he’s a DH.  I’d be fine extending him for 2 years.  Not sure about 3.