I don’t like the idea at all.  You have the chance to greatly improve the rotation this offseason.  I would hold off on signing a #4 / #5 starter until all other better options have signed elsewhere.

1 hour ago, Moan4Yoan said:

I don’t like the idea at all.  You have the chance to greatly improve the rotation this offseason.  I would hold off on signing a #4 / #5 starter until all other better options have signed elsewhere.

I don't disagree with your timing thought.  We will surely have some constraints on what they will spend.  Need to maximize the utilization of our resources whatever they are.  If Jerry will go to $175 million payroll we can have lots of bright shiny new toys.

58 minutes ago, poppysox said:

I don't disagree with your timing thought.  We will surely have some constraints on what they will spend.  Need to maximize the utilization of our resources whatever they are.  If Jerry will go to $175 million payroll we can have lots of bright shiny new toys.

They need to plan for Moncada and Giolito entering arbitration in 2021. They can probably run a 120M payroll this year, going up to 150ish later. They don't need to blow their entire wad this offseason. I'm ok with grabbing a high end pitcher this offseason and making modest lineup upgrades. I'd like them to trade for a LH hitting OF. They have guys that would be interesting enough to other teams. 

Edited August 20, 20196 yr by Jack Parkman

1 minute ago, Jack Parkman said:

I'd like them to trade for a LH hitting OF. They have guys that would be interesting enough to other teams. 

Any potential names of interest?  The only ones that kind of make sense to me off the top of my head that wouldn’t automatically require an untouchable are Nimmo, Polanco, & Mazara.

10 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

They need to plan for Moncada and Giolito entering arbitration in 2021. They can probably run a 120M payroll this year, going up to 150ish later. They don't need to blow their entire wad this offseason. I'm ok with grabbing a high end pitcher this offseason and making modest lineup upgrades. I'd like them to trade for a LH hitting OF. They have guys that would be interesting enough to other teams. 

It's ok if they need to go for high AAV one year deals. They have the flexibility. Honestly, I feel like most of the moves they make this offseason won't even be a factor for 2021.

29 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Any potential names of interest?  The only ones that kind of make sense to me off the top of my head that wouldn’t automatically require an untouchable are Nimmo, Polanco, & Mazara.

You read my mind. Gregory Polanco seems to me as the most plausible and affordable. 

I wish Nova would trust his stuff and work fast. He's so inconsistent but probably would be OK on a contending team as a No. 4 or 5.

48 minutes ago, greg775 said:

I wish Nova would trust his stuff and work fast. He's so inconsistent but probably would be OK on a contending team as a No. 4 or 5.

he's a 6th starter or "headliner" on a good team.  He should be resigned if he's open to a 3-5 million dollar deal with incentives.  If not fuck it.

Edited August 20, 20196 yr by chitownsportsfan

I'd be open to it. We need 6-7 starters next year.

Can you really count on Kopech to give you 150+ coming back from TJS? Will Cease be on a innings limit?

The only sure things in the rotation next year are Gio, Cease, Lopez.

We need to make priority #1 getting a top 5 SP FA, but after that we still need a Nova type that gives a good offense a shot and eats innings.

Gio

FA (Cole >  Stras >Bum > Wheeler > Ryu)

Kopech (how will he come back from surgery + inn limits)

Cease (innings limit?)

Lopez

Nova

Rodon (hopefully)

If the price is right, I wouldn't mind seeing him back next year.  As others have said, we'll need more than the traditional 5 starters.

Now at 1.6 fWAR for the season. Higher than Arrieta, Samardzija, Leake, Aaron Sanchez, Darvish, Porcello, Davies to name a few.

If those guys are getting starts on contending teams, I see no problem with Nova as a #5/#6 next year if the price is right.

The free agent class is very deep with starting pitching, so I just don’t see the desire to bring back a 33 year old dude who gets by on smoke & mirrors.  Based on Hahn’s comments during that recent podcast, it’s very clear that Kopech will be starting 2020 in AAA.  I honestly wouldn’t be surprised if they kept him down until June in order to regain a lost year of control.  If so, they can easily sell one of several free agent starters who will probably have to take a pillow contract (like Wood, Wacha, Smyly, or Chacin) that a full time role will be open this season.  Yes, that means someone may have to be moved to the bullpen when Kopech comes up, but you plan around at least one guy missing time with injury and basically rolling through six starters.  After that, Rodon should be available at some point to take some innings from Cease or Kopech down the stretch.

So basically my point is the following:

• Sign one of Cole, Strasberg, Wheeler, Bumgarner, Ryu
• Sign one of Wood, Wacha, Smyly, Chacin

Unless all those secondary guys reject your pursuits, do NOT bring Nova back.

12 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

The free agent class is very deep with starting pitching, so I just don’t see the desire to bring back a 33 year old dude who gets by on smoke & mirrors.  Based on Hahn’s comments during that recent podcast, it’s very clear that Kopech will be starting 2020 in AAA.  I honestly wouldn’t be surprised if they kept him down until June in order to regain a lost year of control.  If so, they can easily sell one of several free agent starters who will probably have to take a pillow contract (like Wood, Wacha, Smyly, or Chacin) that a full time role will be open this season.  Yes, that means someone may have to be moved to the bullpen when Kopech comes up, but you plan around at least one guy missing time with injury and basically rolling through six starters.  After that, Rodon should be available at some point to take some innings from Cease or Kopech down the stretch.

So basically my point is the following:

• Sign one of Cole, Strasberg, Wheeler, Bumgarner, Ryu
• Sign one of Wood, Wacha, Smyly, Chacin

Unless all those secondary guys reject your pursuits, do NOT bring Nova back.

Has Hahn ever had success with starting pitchers signed to pillow contracts? The 4 guys you mention in the second grouping have been horrible/injured this year. You say smoke and mirrors with Nova because he has a low strikeout rate but it doesn’t matter that the other 4 have a higher strikeout rate when their walk rate is double. I really have no interest in seeing older versions of Covey and Banuelos next year.

The guy turns his season around to negative reviews. Take care of your own when they have earned it. If the Sox sign three guys maybe one will perform well. Alonzo Santana Reed Jay to name a few recent ones. 

1 hour ago, Chicago White Sox said:

The free agent class is very deep with starting pitching, so I just don’t see the desire to bring back a 33 year old dude who gets by on smoke & mirrors.  Based on Hahn’s comments during that recent podcast, it’s very clear that Kopech will be starting 2020 in AAA.  I honestly wouldn’t be surprised if they kept him down until June in order to regain a lost year of control.  If so, they can easily sell one of several free agent starters who will probably have to take a pillow contract (like Wood, Wacha, Smyly, or Chacin) that a full time role will be open this season.  Yes, that means someone may have to be moved to the bullpen when Kopech comes up, but you plan around at least one guy missing time with injury and basically rolling through six starters.  After that, Rodon should be available at some point to take some innings from Cease or Kopech down the stretch.

So basically my point is the following:

• Sign one of Cole, Strasberg, Wheeler, Bumgarner, Ryu
• Sign one of Wood, Wacha, Smyly, Chacin

Unless all those secondary guys reject your pursuits, do NOT bring Nova back.

Two signings from the group of Strasberg, Cole, Wheeler, Bumgarner & Ryu would be nice and we could afford it.  Why can't we have nice things?

1 hour ago, Chicago White Sox said:

The free agent class is very deep with starting pitching, so I just don’t see the desire to bring back a 33 year old dude who gets by on smoke & mirrors.  Based on Hahn’s comments during that recent podcast, it’s very clear that Kopech will be starting 2020 in AAA.  I honestly wouldn’t be surprised if they kept him down until June in order to regain a lost year of control.  If so, they can easily sell one of several free agent starters who will probably have to take a pillow contract (like Wood, Wacha, Smyly, or Chacin) that a full time role will be open this season.  Yes, that means someone may have to be moved to the bullpen when Kopech comes up, but you plan around at least one guy missing time with injury and basically rolling through six starters.  After that, Rodon should be available at some point to take some innings from Cease or Kopech down the stretch.

So basically my point is the following:

• Sign one of Cole, Strasberg, Wheeler, Bumgarner, Ryu
• Sign one of Wood, Wacha, Smyly, Chacin

Unless all those secondary guys reject your pursuits, do NOT bring Nova back.

Wacha, smyly and chacin are all worse than Nova.

Wood is also likely worse. I have no idea why youd want a guy like Smyly over Nova.

Edited August 20, 20196 yr by Look at Ray Ray Run

Also, why would Cease be on an innings limit? He went 120 two years ago and should be 150+ this year. Next year should be 190+.

18 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Wacha, smyly and chacin are all worse than Nova.

Wood is also likely worse. I have no idea why youd want a guy like Smyly over Nova.

They are having worse seasons <> not mean they will be worse next year.  As for Smyly, he’s three years younger than Nova and should hopefully be recovered from TJS next year.  They’re all question marks, but I’d rather gamble on the four guys I mentioned (especially Wood) than bank on a 33 year old who is currently posting ~ 5k/9 & a ~5.00 FIP remaining “productive” next year.

6 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

They are having worse seasons <> not mean they will be worse next year.  As for Smyly, he’s three years younger than Nova and should hopefully be recovered from TJS next year.  They’re all question marks, but I’d rather gamble on the four guys I mentioned (especially Wood) than bank on a 33 year old who is currently posting ~ 5k/9 & a ~5.00 FIP remaining “productive” next year.

I feel like you're stuck on the idea that a ~5.00 ERA or FIP is bad. In this age, getting that + innings eaten from a starter is actually really valuable when the average team scores 4.91 runs per game in the AL. 

18 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

They are having worse seasons <> not mean they will be worse next year.  As for Smyly, he’s three years younger than Nova and should hopefully be recovered from TJS next year.  They’re all question marks, but I’d rather gamble on the four guys I mentioned (especially Wood) than bank on a 33 year old who is currently posting ~ 5k/9 & a ~5.00 FIP remaining “productive” next year.

No, they're worse. Smyly and Wood have been decimated by injuries - they are a shell of their former selves. Smyly really never had a former self as he's spent the vast majority of his career injured. Smyly hasnt had a FIP under 4.5 since 2015. Chacin is not getting any younger - hes gonna be 32 years old getting destroyed in the NL. It's not exactly like his stuff has high upside either. Wacha would be out of baseball in 2 years if he comes to the AL. Wood hasn't thrown over 152 innings since 2015. While he certainly has a higher ceiling, health is really important for starters - especially a guy whose job is to eat innings at a slightly better than league average rate.

I dont like Nova but you've been anti-Nova since the trade and despite him being "fine" this year (meaning he's going to be a 2-2.5 WAR starter) you still won't admit that he was a reasonable acquisition. He's been exactly what the sox hoped for I imagine. 

Nova has done something this year to show he can get big leaguers out in the current era at league average numbers... he has shut down good offenses by pitching. Strike outs are great - especially in the current environment - but Nova is fine and certainly better than three of the guys you listed imo. He stays healthy, goes deep into games and keeps his team in a lot of ballgames. He's not great by any means but offensive numbers are so inflated in baseball that citing a 4.5-4.8 ERA from a back end starter isnt a bad thing at all.

49 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

No, they're worse. Smyly and Wood have been decimated by injuries - they are a shell of their former selves. Smyly really never had a former self as he's spent the vast majority of his career injured. Smyly hasnt had a FIP under 4.5 since 2015. Chacin is not getting any younger - hes gonna be 32 years old getting destroyed in the NL. It's not exactly like his stuff has high upside either. Wacha would be out of baseball in 2 years if he comes to the AL. Wood hasn't thrown over 152 innings since 2015. While he certainly has a higher ceiling, health is really important for starters - especially a guy whose job is to eat innings at a slightly better than league average rate.

I dont like Nova but you've been anti-Nova since the trade and despite him being "fine" this year (meaning he's going to be a 2-2.5 WAR starter) you still won't admit that he was a reasonable acquisition. He's been exactly what the sox hoped for I imagine. 

Nova has done something this year to show he can get big leaguers out in the current era at league average numbers... he has shut down good offenses by pitching. Strike outs are great - especially in the current environment - but Nova is fine and certainly better than three of the guys you listed imo. He stays healthy, goes deep into games and keeps his team in a lot of ballgames. He's not great by any means but offensive numbers are so inflated in baseball that citing a 4.5-4.8 ERA from a back end starter isnt a bad thing at all.

Agree 100%. It seems many here fall in love the big name guys that are now a shell of their former selves. 2019 Michael Wacha is not the same as 2017 Michael Wacha, not even close. Meanwhile, Nova’s fWAR over the past 4 seasons is pretty damn consistent: 2.3, 2.1, 1.2, 1.6 (so far). That consistency is worth something even if the upside is limited.

On 8/19/2019 at 8:36 AM, Dick Allen said:

Pass. He's been pitching well lately but his peripherals still suck. No more rebuilding. Let's bring in pitchers who can win.

I'm inclined to pass on Nova as well. We can and should have higher expectations from our rotation than what he brings. 

9 hours ago, chitownsportsfan said:

he's a 6th starter or "headliner" on a good team.  He should be resigned if he's open to a 3-5 million dollar deal with incentives.  If not fuck it.

that's a good way to put it. agreed.

2 hours ago, steveno89 said:

I'm inclined to pass on Nova as well. We can and should have higher expectations from our rotation than what he brings. 

He brings sorely needed depth to the 6th spot.  With the injuries in the upper minors pitching this year there's not any depth.  The Sox need to add two SP, preferably a 2nd and 3rd starter, or a 1st and a 4th, and then find a group of 6-7 guys they can rely on next year.  Nova should absolutely be considered in that group. 

20 hours ago, Moan4Yoan said:

I don’t like the idea at all.  You have the chance to greatly improve the rotation this offseason.  I would hold off on signing a #4 / #5 starter until all other better options have signed elsewhere.

Again, the only guy who is a definite upgrade over Nova that isn't a top tier FA pitcher is Keuchel. Roark and Pineda are inconsistent enough that they could be better than Nova or they could be worse. 

I personally think Nova is a better option than Wacha,  Wood or Pomeranz because injuries have decimated their stuff and command. They're a step above Covey and Banuelos but definitely a tier below Nova. 

My FA tiers: 

Ace: 

Cole

#2 : 

Strasburg 

Bumgarner 

#3-4: 

Ryu

Wheeler 

Keuchel 

#4-5 

Roark 

Pineda 

#5-LR

Nova

Everyone else is garbage

Edited August 20, 20196 yr by Jack Parkman