10 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

His OBP has dropped dramatically and being on base is more valuable for generating runs than slugging. OPS treats them equally by just adding; any system scaled to how productive you are cares about 1 point of OBP more than 1 point of slugging. 

This has nothing to do with it.

The league, in general, has a higher OPS this year than it did in 2016 so when it normalizes, Jose is less better than league average than he was in 2016.

7 minutes ago, TaylorStSox said:

So it values walks more than xbh's? 

No. OPS+ has nothing to do with valuing one more than the other.

wOBA does.

16 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

League wide offense is way up from 2016.

I believe that's it.  While his stat line is roughly the same, the league-wide numbers are way up, which impacts OPS+.  

7 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

This has nothing to do with it.

The league, in general, has a higher OPS this year than it did in 2016 so when it normalizes, Jose is less better than league average than he was in 2016.

League-average OPS in 2016 was .739, now it's .760.  

https://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/MLB/bat.shtml

The ball helps the smaller, less powerful, player much more than it helps the big hitters too.

post his sensational rookie year, Abreu's cumulative line is .288/.342/.499/.841

this year's line is .282/.325/.495/.820

his career BABIP is .326

this year's BABIP is .315

last year's BABIP was .294 (and he was injured)

So has he really declined from his 2015-2017 self in 2018-2019?

I think the answer currently is a resounding "Nope."

Edited September 3, 20196 yr by Greg Hibbard

11 hours ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

This has nothing to do with it.

The league, in general, has a higher OPS this year than it did in 2016 so when it normalizes, Jose is less better than league average than he was in 2016.

 

11 hours ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

No. OPS+ has nothing to do with valuing one more than the other.

wOBA does.

This is my understanding and here is the proof:

https://touchemalljoe.wordpress.com/2010/04/11/slugging-ops-and-ops/

“The calculation for OPS+ is shown below.  One important thing to note when calculating OPS+ is to be sure that the league averages for OBP and SLG are also park adjusted before plugging them into the formula.

The main issue with OPS+ is the same problem that OPS has.  It treats OBP and SLG as equally important, when in reality OBP is about 1.7 times more important.”

On 9/3/2019 at 12:26 PM, Greg Hibbard said:

post his sensational rookie year, Abreu's cumulative line is .288/.342/.499/.841

this year's line is .282/.325/.495/.820

his career BABIP is .326

this year's BABIP is .315

last year's BABIP was .294 (and he was injured)

So has he really declined from his 2015-2017 self in 2018-2019?

I think the answer currently is a resounding "Nope."

Oops we Abreu backers have to cower. He's hitless again tonight. I think it's two games in a row after his hot sizz. Of course nobody praised him for all those multi hit games in August.

1 hour ago, greg775 said:

Oops we Abreu backers have to cower. He's hitless again tonight. I think it's two games in a row after his hot sizz. Of course nobody praised him for all those multi hit games in August.

This did not age well.

Two hits; two more RBI, another HR. This man is having a sensational age 32 season. He turns 33 at end of January.

28 minutes ago, greg775 said:

Two hits; two more RBI, another HR. This man is having a sensational age 32 season. He turns 33 at end of January.

The reaction in the game thread when Jose hit the HR was priceless. No one typing .... JOSE !!! Just a few comments about that guy who starts all the Abreu threads. Funny thing is people are now agreeing with him and taking Jose for granted. If his strtegy was to bomard us with crap about Abreu until he showed even the slightest decline it's worked . Because he is a bad fielder any drop off in offensive production, no matter how slight, people are talking about him now as if he sucks.

But if you praise him you have to also say that not scoring on the great catch by Mercado with the bases loaded and 1 out was just plain inexcusable and added more fuel to the fire.

43 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

The reaction in the game thread when Jose hit the HR was priceless. No one typing .... JOSE !!! Just a few comments about that guy who starts all the Abreu threads. Funny thing is people are now agreeing with him and taking Jose for granted. If his strtegy was to bomard us with crap about Abreu until he showed even the slightest decline it's worked . Because he is a bad fielder any drop off in offensive production, no matter how slight, people are talking about him now as if he sucks.

But if you praise him you have to also say that not scoring on the great catch by Mercado with the bases loaded and 1 out was just plain inexcusable and added more fuel to the fire.

That's right you schmohawk. Don't dare type my name. 

4 minutes ago, ron883 said:

That's right you schmohawk. Don't dare type my name. 

It's my name too.

A few folks on this board: Jose sucks and should be shot out a cannon to Mars

A few folks on this board: Jose is literally a god in a baseball uniform, and I have a shrine to him in my garage

Most of us on this board: Jose is a pretty good hitter, and less than average fielder, and he'd be a nice option at DH for a couple years

There.  If you haven't read this thread yet, don't waste your time.

3 hours ago, hogan873 said:

A few folks on this board: Jose sucks and should be shot out a cannon to Mars

A few folks on this board: Jose is literally a god in a baseball uniform, and I have a shrine to him in my garage

Most of us on this board: Jose is a pretty good hitter, and less than average fielder, and he'd be a nice option at DH for a couple years

There.  If you haven't read this thread yet, don't waste your time.

Thank you time for this thread to be put to sleep.

9 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Thank you time for this thread to be put to sleep.

Yep. Can one of the mods take it out back and shoot it please?

1 hour ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Thank you time for this thread to be put to sleep.

Agreed. The thread title is completely and utterly disrespectful towards me. Close this pile of crap down 

Edited September 5, 20196 yr by ron883

4 hours ago, hogan873 said:

A few folks on this board: Jose sucks and should be shot out a cannon to Mars

A few folks on this board: Jose is literally a god in a baseball uniform, and I have a shrine to him in my garage

Most of us on this board: Jose is a pretty good hitter, and less than average fielder, and he'd be a nice option at DH for a couple years

There.  If you haven't read this thread yet, don't waste your time.

White Sox FO: Nah, we signing him to play 1B until 2024 at an AAV of 15 million.

That's the worry from the 3rd camp.

So who is Ron!?

6 minutes ago, 3GamesToLove said:

So who is Ron!?

I dunno but DFW wrote that about Federer but he could have wrote it about Robert.  Looking forward to him next year.  Great sig!

13 hours ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

The reaction in the game thread when Jose hit the HR was priceless. No one typing .... JOSE !!! Just a few comments about that guy who starts all the Abreu threads. Funny thing is people are now agreeing with him and taking Jose for granted. If his strtegy was to bomard us with crap about Abreu until he showed even the slightest decline it's worked . Because he is a bad fielder any drop off in offensive production, no matter how slight, people are talking about him now as if he sucks.

But if you praise him you have to also say that not scoring on the great catch by Mercado with the bases loaded and 1 out was just plain inexcusable and added more fuel to the fire.

It's incredible. It's funny how "cliche fans" have changed. It used to be fans "fell in love with" or "had high respect for" the veterans who actually produced. Now the message board fan at least grows very tired of the guys who have been around a while, guys like Jose. I prefer it the other way. 

At least some of you have Abreu jerseys. So how many of you own Jose Abreu Sox jerseys? Hopefully 10 or more.

6 hours ago, greg775 said:

It's incredible. It's funny how "cliche fans" have changed. It used to be fans "fell in love with" or "had high respect for" the veterans who actually produced. Now the message board fan at least grows very tired of the guys who have been around a while, guys like Jose. I prefer it the other way. 

At least some of you have Abreu jerseys. So how many of you own Jose Abreu Sox jerseys? Hopefully 10 or more.

I have an Ozzie Guillen autograph and a Jose Abreu autograph.  That's it.  Really doesn't change my feelings about either.  I root for the laundry ya know?  When Ozzie and Jose are no longer assets to the laundry I move on.  Sentimentalism has little place in sports or life.  Except perhaps for newspaper columnists and hagiographers.

Edited September 5, 20196 yr by chitownsportsfan

I’m a big fan of Jose. I just wish he were a DH only.

4 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

I have an Ozzie Guillen autograph and a Jose Abreu autograph.  That's it.  Really doesn't change my feelings about either.  I root for the laundry ya know?  When Ozzie and Jose are no longer assets to the laundry I move on.  Sentimentalism has little place in sports or life.  Except perhaps for newspaper columnists and hagiographers.

Jose is fine as long as he is our best option at 1st or DH.  Don't be doing any Konerko farewell tours while we are in championship mode.  Can't afford under utilizing      1 of 25 spots on a team trying to win now.

4 minutes ago, poppysox said:

Jose is fine as long as he is our best option at 1st or DH.  Don't be doing any Konerko farewell tours while we are in championship mode.  Can't afford under utilizing      1 of 25 spots on a team trying to win now.

One year with a vesting option and buyout makes a lot of sense.   Something like 600 PA maybe and a 3 million dollar buyout on top of 1 year 12 million.  Unless there's been a dramatic shift in how mid 30s DHs with good but not great bats are evaluated he should be more than happy with a deal like that.

Frankly I feel like if the Sox don't make him an offer he's unlikely to even get that.