6 minutes ago, Chisox378 said:

There is more to judging hitting besides WAR. Watching the players at bats is worth alot. Even though Moncada had a better WAR he is not a better hitter than Benintendi. Benintendi had a down year last season. I predict Benintendi to be a borderline Hall of Famer when its all said and done.

As Stephen A Smith would say, stay off the weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeedddddddddddd

4 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

WAR? I'm using wRC+.

Benetendi had a wRC+ of 100 last year - exactly league average.

Yoan, for example, had a 141 wRC+ - 41% better than league average (elite). 

James McCann had a highed wRC+ than Benetendi last year. My goodness. Eloy, Abreu, Timmy, and of course had much higher wRC+ last year.

Benetendi is a very average hitter, and he certainly would be no where near the best hitter on the White Sox. To even make an argument that he's a better hitter than Yoan Moncada is crazy.

Go watch his at bats. He is a better hitter than the hitters you mentions. Benintendi had a down year last year, he will be better as the years go on.

Just now, Chisox378 said:

Go watch his at bats. He is a better hitter than the hitters you mentions. Benintendi had a down year last year, he will be better as the years go on.

The best year of Benetendis career to date was 21% worse than the year Yoan Moncada just had and 10% worse than the season Tim Anderson just had. 

Again, this is a poor argument and stating that hed be the best hitter on the sox is an absolute joke.

10 minutes ago, Chisox378 said:

There is more to judging hitting besides WAR. Watching the players at bats is worth alot. Even though Moncada had a better WAR he is not a better hitter than Benintendi. Benintendi had a down year last season. I predict Benintendi to be a borderline Hall of Famer when its all said and done.

You are entitled to your opinion but WOW...just WOW!

Do people actually think Chisox378 is being serious?  It's clearly a troll job.  Probably best to just ignore his posts.

I hope the Red Sox feel the way you all do about Benintendi, then I would make the swap immediately...Collins & Dunning(or another prospect) for Benintendi!

23 minutes ago, Chisox378 said:

Go watch his at bats. He is a better hitter than the hitters you mentions. Benintendi had a down year last year, he will be better as the years go on.

If he's a better hitter than those guys. Then why doesn't he hit better?

1 hour ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Post adjustments, Collins put up a wRC+ of 130 against RHP.  While that’s a small sample and his BABIP was high, so was his BB rate (~17%) & ISO (.250).  He showed me enough to suggest he can be a useful platoon bat next year.  I’m willing to give him a couple months and see if that happens.  If not, I either give Mercedes a look or simply trade for a DH type.  The Yankees literally got EE for nothing but some money and we should be able to find someone to fill that role fairly cheaply if need be.

I don't know how you're getting wRC+ on a double-split like that so please do tell me - but no matter how you're doing it, you're drawing that trend line from something like 30 plate appearances against righties, because he only had 71 in September/October total. And because those plate appearances are so low - a couple home runs have a huge amount of leverage. If he'd only hit 2 home runs, or if he hadn't gotten a triple, you'd be saying that his ISO was low. So maybe he can pull that off over a full season, but if I'm signing guys like Grandal to actually target winning the Central as a possibility this year, I am not betting my DH productivity on those 40 plate appearances.. 

7 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

I don't know how you're getting wRC+ on a double-split like that so please do tell me - but no matter how you're doing it, you're drawing that trend line from something like 30 plate appearances against righties, because he only had 71 in September/October total. And because those plate appearances are so low - a couple home runs have a huge amount of leverage. If he'd only hit 2 home runs, or if he hadn't gotten a triple, you'd be saying that his ISO was low. So maybe he can pull that off over a full season, but if I'm signing guys like Grandal to actually target winning the Central as a possibility this year, I am not betting my DH productivity on those 40 plate appearances.. 

Splits tool on fangraphs.

https://www.fangraphs.com/splitstool.aspx?playerid=19181&position=C/DH&splitArr=2&strgroup=season&statgroup=2&startDate=2019-09-03&endDate=2019-09-29&filter=&statType=player&autoPt=true&players=&sort=NaN,1

He had 44 AB's in that time frame. Since he was called back up, his wOBA was also a solid .364.

1 minute ago, Balta1701 said:

I don't know how you're getting wRC+ on a double-split like that so please do tell me - but no matter how you're doing it, you're drawing that trend line from something like 30 plate appearances against righties, because he only had 71 in September/October total. And because those plate appearances are so low - a couple home runs have a huge amount of leverage. If he'd only hit 2 home runs, or if he hadn't gotten a triple, you'd be saying that his ISO was low. So maybe he can pull that off over a full season, but if I'm signing guys like Grandal to actually target winning the Central as a possibility this year, I am not betting my DH productivity on those 40 plate appearances.. 

If winning the Central is a priority how do you feel about when Kopech, Robert and Madrigal are all starting the season in the minors ?  Combined that may be over 50 games that valuable members of the team aren't contributing to winning the Central .Even if Collins is on the 26 man roster do you think he'd be getting more than 2 starts a week at DH/C/1B with Grandal, McCann  Abreu  others given DH duty on an occasional basis.

Let’s stop quoting the troll, please.

Assuming we don't sign anybody to be the DH, how do these numbers look for a breakdown at C, DH, and 1B?  Games played at that position are in parenthesis.

Catcher:  Grandal (90), McCann (50), Collins (22)

DH:  Collins (60), Abreu (38), Grandal (32), McCann (32)

1B:  Abreu (120), Grandal (30), Collins (12)

1 hour ago, SoxBlanco said:

Do people actually think Chisox378 is being serious?  It's clearly a troll job.  Probably best to just ignore his posts.

100% a troll job.  He’s basically a homo-phobic version of Greg.

45 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

I don't know how you're getting wRC+ on a double-split like that so please do tell me - but no matter how you're doing it, you're drawing that trend line from something like 30 plate appearances against righties, because he only had 71 in September/October total. And because those plate appearances are so low - a couple home runs have a huge amount of leverage. If he'd only hit 2 home runs, or if he hadn't gotten a triple, you'd be saying that his ISO was low. So maybe he can pull that off over a full season, but if I'm signing guys like Grandal to actually target winning the Central as a possibility this year, I am not betting my DH productivity on those 40 plate appearances.. 

 

37 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Splits tool on fangraphs.

https://www.fangraphs.com/splitstool.aspx?playerid=19181&position=C/DH&splitArr=2&strgroup=season&statgroup=2&startDate=2019-09-03&endDate=2019-09-29&filter=&statType=player&autoPt=true&players=&sort=NaN,1

He had 44 AB's in that time frame. Since he was called back up, his wOBA was also a solid .364.

Thanks for sharing @Look at Ray Ray Run, that’s exactly what I used.

@Balta1701 - I’m not saying he’s suddenly a wRC+ 130 guy based on 50 plate appearances.  But I saw enough from him post-adjustments and he put up good enough numbers (both in the Majors & AAA) to suggest he may be a useful platoon bat as soon as next year with plenty of room for growth.

I fundamentally disagree with the idea that if we spend some money that we need to go all in right out of the gate.  I want to give prospects with enough ceiling a chance to prove themselves at the major league level.  Collins doesn’t deserve a long leash, but I’d like to see how he does against RHP in April & May before I write him off.  And if we could land a RF with a bat like Castellanos, I think we can afford that luxury.  If we end up with a weaker hitting RF, that may change the calculus a bit.

What about Collins?

Part of a deal for a RF.

After the curious addition of Yermin to the 40-man, the Sox are now carrying five catchers. It seems like something has to give. Either McCann or Collins is on the block or Seby is about to get DFA'd. Mercedes has little trade value.

On 11/21/2019 at 7:27 AM, caulfield12 said:

Haha...that’s like when Andy Gonzalez and Jerry Owens were ranked similarly, and a catcher whose name now escapes me.

Jerry Owens that was a grand experiment with the Mendoza line. Teams feel obligated to promote and hype their prospects regardless of pedigree. At least they stopped drafting football players. 

7 hours ago, SoxBlanco said:

Assuming we don't sign anybody to be the DH, how do these numbers look for a breakdown at C, DH, and 1B?  Games played at that position are in parenthesis.

Catcher:  Grandal (90), McCann (50), Collins (22)

DH:  Collins (60), Abreu (38), Grandal (32), McCann (32)

1B:  Abreu (120), Grandal (30), Collins (12)

McCann will play in more than 82 games and Grandal will and should play in 10 less games.  Well rested catchers is a huge plus as the season wears on.  The spirit of the mix and match of catcher/backup catcher/DH/1st. base is what makes Grandal such a super match for us.

22 minutes ago, poppysox said:

McCann will play in more than 82 games and Grandal will and should play in 10 less games.  Well rested catchers is a huge plus as the season wears on.  The spirit of the mix and match of catcher/backup catcher/DH/1st. base is what makes Grandal such a super match for us.

I'll bet you on this.

10 minutes ago, soxfan2014 said:

I'll bet you on this.

I don't make bets with folks I don't know on the internet...however...feel free to call me out at the end of the year.?

8 hours ago, Chisox378 said:

I hope the Red Sox feel the way you all do about Benintendi, then I would make the swap immediately...Collins & Dunning(or another prospect) for Benintendi!

Lots of us would like Benintendi at a better price than you suggest.  You are taking the ribbing because of your take that he is a better hitter than Moncada.

What a group this will be in '21 with Vaughn at 1B, Abreu at DH, and Grandal/Collins splitting time at C...not to mention Moncada, Jimenez, Anderson, Robert, Madrigal

6 hours ago, poppysox said:

I don't make bets with folks I don't know on the internet...however...feel free to call me out at the end of the year.?

I'll make sure of it.