18 minutes ago, ron883 said:

This deal is absolutely disastrous for the team. There is a high chance his last year is a complete sunken cost. This could be the difference between an ace and a low end starter. The difference between going to the world series and actually winning the damn thing. What a horrible, horrible deal. 

Yes, I expect the Sox to bow out of the Cole/Strasburg sweepstakes any minute now as a result of this oh-so-crippling contract.  

Has Hahn commented on this yet?  Aside from this being a really bad deal, I do not understand the urgency to make this.  He was already locked up for 2020.  

We better never hear:

1) Extensions for Giolito, Moncada and Robert were just out of our “comfortable” price range...or that Moncada/Robert wouldn’t sign extensions despite Abreu being around 3 full seasons rather than just 1 year.

2) The reason for not signing Wheeler has anything to do with payroll obligations in 2020/21

3) Jose just can’t hit well at DH...needs to be on the field 130-140 games per season as “capitan” and designated team role model.

4) That we needed to move on from Collins and/or Vaughn because of this deal.

5) KW or Stone or Cooper mentioning limited available current/future payroll due to attendance issues

 

If this forecasts adding the last remaining “name” Cuban player in Puig for one year/$8-12 million and a 2021 option, it’s still not worth it...

Edited November 22, 20196 yr by caulfield12

6 minutes ago, Thad Bosley said:

Yes, I expect the Sox to bow out of the Cole/Strasburg sweepstakes any minute now as a result of this oh-so-crippling contract.  

They were never in them to begin with...

5 minutes ago, BackDoorBreach said:

Has Hahn commented on this yet?  Aside from this being a really bad deal, I do not understand the urgency to make this.  He was already locked up for 2020.  

It's like going all in pre flop without even looking at your hand.  WHY THE FUCK WOULD YOU NOT JUST WAIT UNTIL YOU KNOW HIS 2019 PERFORMANCE TO OFFER HIM MORE YEARS??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

18 minutes ago, SonofaRoache said:

Jose will be asked to DH next season and he will do it. 

We'll see. Ricky is very much a players coach and he certainly has his guys "Abreu is definitely one of them". I can just see him playing more 1B than he should regardless if Vaughn is around. 

1 minute ago, SoxAce said:

We'll see. Ricky is very much a players coach and he certainly has his guys "Abreu is definitely one of them". I can just see him playing more 1B than he should regardless if Vaughn is around. 

I'm pretty firmly of the opinion Vaugh is going to be slashing 280/370/500 in AA in July and force their hand in 2021.  For me another puzzling aspect of this deal is not having confidence in the guy you just invested a 3rd overall pick.

22 minutes ago, SoxBlanco said:

And one less position to worry about filling.

Look, I don't love the move (I preferred to go year by year), but I really don't think it's going to affect our ability to compete for a championship at all.

How do we have one less roster spot to fill though?

Also, I know $14M seems trivial right now, but look at how a guy like Brandon Morrow hand-cuffed the Cubs.  At some point we’ll have far less financial flexibility and every dollar will count.

Why didn’t we extend the same courtesy to Mark Buehrle back in 2011-12?

He and Konerko were the heart of the organization (and World Series winners) for over a decade...not just six non-winning seasons.

Ozzie leaving made it easier on Jerry, somehow? 

Why didn’t we also stay loyal to Jim Thome in 2010...?   
 

1 minute ago, Chicago White Sox said:

How do we have one less roster spot to fill though?

Also, I know $14M seems trivial right now, but look at how a guy like Brandon Morrow hand-cuffed the Cubs.  At some point we’ll have far less financial flexibility and every dollar will count.

I don't expect Abreu's contribution to be literally 0 for what it's worth. 

23 minutes ago, raBBit said:

Do not love that third year.

1) Jose is a 1B only and a shitty one at that.

2) Jose is open about hating DHing.

3) Jose's OBP is slipping these past few years. Had a big increase in counting stats (HR/RBIs) with the 2019 baseballs but so did a lot of guys. If they switch back the balls it could be kind of ugly.

4) We have the #1 first base prospect in all of MLB who could reasonably be ready for big league play at the end of 2020.

Don't love it. Found it a bit unnecessary but of course am happy for Abreu and he certainly "deserves it" whether or not its the best move for the roster for 2020-2022.

Perfect summary raBBit!

1 minute ago, Chicago White Sox said:

How do we have one less roster spot to fill though?

Also, I know $14M seems trivial right now, but look at how a guy like Brandon Morrow hand-cuffed the Cubs.  At some point we’ll have far less financial flexibility and every dollar will count.

We won't have to spend on a DH in 2022, because Jose will fill that spot. 

If the argument is that perhaps someone like Collins could have filled that spot for much less money, then that is assuming Collins (or whoever else) takes off and is a productive DH. If that does happen, then that person becomes a great trade piece to help fill another hole, like an extra starting pitcher.

I just don't think it makes sense to say, "Well now we have $14M less to spend in 2022."  That is looking at things in a vacuum.

56 minutes ago, Lillian said:

I echo these thoughts. I'm not saying that it's a great deal and I concede that it may be a slight overpay. However, I just don't understand this over the top negative reaction. Is this really going to significantly alter the front office's plans? The irony here is that while many complain about J.R. being "cheap," they seem even more critical of what might be considered a display of generosity and gesture of gratitude. I don't get it.

I think there's a pretty equal amount of people sympathetic or not upset to the signing as there are people who think it's terrible. The people not overly upset don't see the money as all that wasteful and can see the value of or even approve of the "kind" nature of the deal.

For the rest it's all about the bottom line and applying that to creating the best team possible.

6 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

How do we have one less roster spot to fill though?

Also, I know $14M seems trivial right now, but look at how a guy like Brandon Morrow hand-cuffed the Cubs.  At some point we’ll have far less financial flexibility and every dollar will count.

Cubs were handcuffed because of the luxury tax cap. Sox clearly don’t have to worry about that.

I just can’t get worked up about a guy I generally want around being like a 1 win value deficit. 

Player 1: Age 31 .246 Avg 28 HR .380 OBP .848 OPS 119 OPS+

Player 2. Age 32 .284 Avg 33 HR .330 OBP .834 OPS 119 OPS+

Player 1 gets 4 years $73 Mil. Average per year $18.25 Mil Great deal

Player 2 gets 3 years $50 Mil. Average per year $16.66 Mil. Terrible deal

Just now, NotHahn said:

Player 1: Age 31 .246 Avg 28 HR .380 OBP .848 OPS 119 OPS+

Player 2. Age 32 .284 Avg 33 HR .330 OBP .834 OPS 119 OPS+

Player 1 gets 4 years $73 Mil. Average per year $18.25 Mil Great deal

Player 2 gets 3 years $50 Mil. Average per year $16.66 Mil. Terrible deal

One is an elite defender at a premium position and one is the exact opposite. 

This is silly. One plays a premium defensive position incredibly well coming off some of his best seasons, the other is a terrible defensive player at the least valuable position and is clearly in decline.

Edited November 22, 20196 yr by 3GamesToLove

1 minute ago, 3GamesToLove said:

This is silly. One plays a premium defensive position incredibly well and is arguably at his peak, the other is a terrible defensive player at the least valuable position and is clearly in decline.

Your point is valid. However, in that final year of Grandal's 4 year contract, will he really be catching "incredibly well"? I'm not so sure.

4 minutes ago, mqr said:

One is an elite defender at a premium position and one is the exact opposite. 

To play contrarian what if the MLB moves to robot umpires. Take framing out of it and what is Grandal?

8 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Why didn’t we extend the same courtesy to Mark Buehrle back in 2011-12?

He and Konerko were the heart of the organization (and World Series winners) for over a decade...not just six non-winning seasons.

Ozzie leaving made it easier on Jerry, somehow? 

Why didn’t we also stay loyal to Jim Thome in 2010...?   
 

I can't answer that with any degree of knowledge so I'll just guess.

I've made previous posts on JR perhaps not liking the whole IFA system regarding how exploitative it is towards very young players who get surrounded by people looking to ride their talents for cash.

In light of that argument my guess is JR is sympathetic to how Jose Abreu ended up getting out of Cuba, leaving his family behind , not seeing his son for a while and the dangerous and frightening  journey it was. In spite of all that he is not bitter, is quite humble and a leader and perhaps had a lot to do with Robert signing and Moncada 's assimilation/comfort .

You cannot compare any of that to American born players even though I'm sure there are some American hard luck stories out there .

 

Just now, Lillian said:

Your point is valid. However, in that final year of Grandal's 4 year contract, will he really be catching "incredibly well"? I'm not so sure.

The other thing missing from the comparison is that Grandal has been hitting with protection around him on playoff caliber teams.  Abreu has been hitting with dog shit around him and has still managed to put up pretty good numbers.

I'd summarize it like this:

Grandal:  Great signing

Abreu:  Eh, take it or leave it.

1 minute ago, BrianAnderson said:

To play contrarian what if the MLB moves to robot umpires. Take framing out of it and what is Grandal?

Well they haven’t so

2 minutes ago, BrianAnderson said:

To play contrarian what if the MLB moves to robot umpires. Take framing out of it and what is Grandal?

One guy you have to say "what if" and the other is a fact about his defense.

4 minutes ago, Tony said:

You’re intentionally leaving out key details so they don’t hurt your bad premise, right?

Just thought it was funny that the stats were kind of similar