At the start when we got Grandal, I was stoked about the off season. We missed out on Wheeler. We traded for Mazara. Now I feel like I got kicked in the groin. Still need pitching and bullpen. Should we prepare ourselves for more disappointments?

2 minutes ago, fathom said:

It’s funny, I hate Grandal but loved what the  move symbolizes for the organization. I like Mazara but hate what the move symbolizes.  

Wait how could you hate Grandal? 

11 minutes ago, SoCalChiSox said:

Joc would have been much better although admittedly I do not know the price the Dodgers wanted.

He’s also worse against LHP than Mazara. You’d have to platoon Joc as well and give up more prospects. 

2 minutes ago, NWINFan said:

I am holding all judgement until the off season progresses more. But I do have the concern that many fans have: That this franchise will never be in the position or allow to itself to be in the position to make a real play for a stud free agent. And that is something I am coming to terms with. 

Like Yasmani Grandal? 

Just now, Y2Jimmy0 said:

Wait how could you hate Grandal? 

Just a frustrating player to watch. Maybe it’s just I have seen so much of him in the playoffs when he’s struggled. He will go on stretches where he looks like he’s blind at the plate (of course, he has very hot stretches typically in the first few months).

3 minutes ago, macsandz said:

You mean misses like Moncada, Eloy and Gio? 

I'm talking about free agency....

2 minutes ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

Wait how could you hate Grandal? 

To be fair, fathom has never been a fan of his. I remember him saying how overrated his defense is at catcher in the playoffs. This isn't coming out of the blue with him.

1 minute ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

Like Yasmani Grandal? 

You mean like Luis Robert? 

Just now, fathom said:

Just a frustrating player to watch. Maybe it’s just I have seen so much of him in the playoffs when he’s struggled. He will go on stretches where he looks like he’s blind at the plate (of course, he has very hot stretches typically in the first few months).

I like 5 WAR catchers personally. He's the best catcher in the AL. 

Just now, macsandz said:

You mean like Luis Robert? 

Mac, is the pitching addition coming via trade or free agency? 

1 minute ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

Like Yasmani Grandal? 

Grandal is a good signing, but there have been many others where the Sox are not even in the picture. But like I said, I withholding all judgement until this off season progresses more.

1 minute ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

Mac, is the pitching addition coming via trade or free agency? 

Likely both.

2 minutes ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

Mac, is the pitching addition coming via trade or free agency? 

At this point, I kinda hope they just add guys in free agency rather than give up talent.

4 minutes ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

I'm of the opinion that Steele Walker's value was the highest it would ever be. Theoretically, he could be used in a trade later. The Problem is, it's very likely that Walker would struggle in the AA Southern League as a 24 year old and his value would soften significantly. 

That may be, but I think he has the type of profile you can wait out a bit.

And I'm not big on any of our OF prospects after Robert, but I just don't like giving up an asset when there were easier ways to fill RF. If it was for a pitcher with upside, great.

I'm also glad we traded Walker and not Rutherford. I still like Rutherford a lot more. 

 

I wouldn't be surprised to see Mazara take off. He's got the profile and a really pretty swing. 

There are certainly valid reasons to be upset and concerned by this deal.

Cons:

The White Sox have not shown a very good ability of scouting big league players; identifying ones that would respond to their philosophies and teachings. In fact, I think MLB scouting is one of the teams weakest departments - MiLB scouting has actually been pretty good, based on their return of minor league players in trades. This would lead you to be concerned that they actually could identify something within Mazara that they could fix to get more out of his tools than he currently is getting out of them. I understand that concern, and I share that concern. I'm taking the believe it when I see it mentality when it comes to Mazara.

Pros:

Steele Walker is just a guy; his power didn't play up in A+ and it certainly won't play up at AA. There's a very real chance that by this time next year, Walker is a worthless asset. The Sox currently have, possibly, 3 guys ahead of him in their organization (Adolfo, Rutherford, Basebe). You could even make the argument that Luis Gonzalez is ahead of him. Everyone knew the White Sox had a plethora of OF assets - none of which took the necessary step forward last year, leaving us to trust the Sox evaluation on those players but as I said above, I trust their MiLB valuations more than their MLB ones.

There's also no doubt that Mazara has big time tools; always has. Can he get more out of those tools is the question. It's a fair gamble for 5.7 million. He's going to be the teams 6-7 hitter.

In general, this is a low risk move with a potential big reward. It really shouldn't take you out of anything else that would have been a home run move for the organization. 

Mazara has seen his hard hit % and .iso steadily climb over the past few years. He's going to be 25 years old; most guys are just arriving to the show, so to use his 4 years of MLB results against him has never made sense to me. He has been developing in the big leagues while guys like Walker were playing college baseball. Just because you are in the minors or in college does not mean that you are going to develop more than a player that is already in the big leagues. In fact, I'd argue the opposite.

Edited December 11, 20196 yr by Look at Ray Ray Run

I don't hate this deal. I've liked Mazara for a long time. 

I'd rather go sign Alex Wood and Rick Porcello than Bumgarner/Keuchel/Ryu. 

Edited December 11, 20196 yr by Jack Parkman

2 minutes ago, TaylorStSox said:

I'm also glad we traded Walker and not Rutherford. I still like Rutherford a lot more.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Mazara take off. He's got the profile and a really pretty swing. 

That's where I am with Mazara, too. He's got some talent, and he's getting a fresh start. Maybe Menechino has some good ideas on what he needs to work on. We'll see. 

At the very least, the Sox will have a big league lineup 1-9 by May. 

If you listen to Chuck's new podcast Evan Grant is on there. They talked about how disappointed Texas was in his range and how he wasn't getting to the balls that he absolutely should have been. This goes in with his bad DRS numbers. I have no idea why the White Sox would want to test this next year. 

Why be mad about this? We traded a minor league player for a young, controlled major league one and the big league team got better. 

Just now, Baron said:

If you listen to Chuck's new podcast Evan Grant is on there. They talked about how disappointed Texas was in his range and how he wasn't getting to the balls that he absolutely should have been. This goes in with his bad DRS numbers. I have no idea why the White Sox would want to test this next year. 

Maybe they feel Ricky will give him a kick in the ass? 

1 minute ago, Eloy Jiménez said:

Why be mad about this? We traded a minor league player for a young, controlled major league one and the big league team got better. 

Controlled? He’s a free agent after 2021...

3 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

I'd rather go sign Alex Wood and Rick Porcello than Bumgarner/Keuchel/Ryu. 

This issue with wood is, he will really tax a bullpen. He just doesnt pitch many innings.  If they sign him they better improve the bullpen.

1 minute ago, flavum said:

That's where I am with Mazara, too. He's got some talent, and he's getting a fresh start. Maybe Menechino has some good ideas on what he needs to work on. We'll see. 

At the very least, the Sox will have a big league lineup 1-9 by May. 

I certainly don't value hitting/pitching coaches quite to the level of some here, but Menechino may see something within Mazara that he thinks he can change as well. Menechino has had a positive effect on a few hitters in his career.

1 minute ago, YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! said:

Controlled? He’s a free agent after 2021...

Thanks Rangers, for putting him on the OD roster 4 years ago costing a year of control...