1 minute ago, Blackout Friday said:

Big frank should have won a third MVP that year. 

That's exactly right!!!

 

3 minutes ago, Soxsi75 said:

That's exactly right!!!

 

When looking inside the numbers in an advanced way, it was the right call. I was upset about this for 20 years until I read an article about that race and reranking the MVP voting for that season. 

14 minutes ago, SonofaRoache said:

When looking inside the numbers in an advanced way, it was the right call. I was upset about this for 20 years until I read an article about that race and reranking the MVP voting for that season. 

Their numbers were very, very close. I think it has more to do with the fact that Giambi was a "roid" boy. That's more the injustice then the numbers themselves. I actually understood it more at the time, but then after hearing about Giambi and his roids, I became angrier. And his roid use shouldn't have been a surprise. One look at the guy with the big, puffy look, he couldn't deny he was using. I guess what I was upset with back then was, if I remember correctly, was that Giambi won because Thomas was a DH and Giambi played the field. That I thought was a joke. Giambi didn't do anything defensively to make him an MVP. 

Edited July 6, 20205 yr by Soxsi75

That was the team that made me fall in love with baseball.

32 minutes ago, Soxsi75 said:

Their numbers were very, very close. I think it has more to do with the fact that Giambi was a "roid" boy. That's more the injustice then the numbers themselves. I actually understood it more at the time, but then after hearing about Giambi and his roids, I became angrier. And his roid use shouldn't have been a surprise. One look at the guy with the big, puffy look, he couldn't deny he was using. I guess what I was upset with back then was, if I remember correctly, was that Giambi won because Thomas was a DH and Giambi played the field. That I thought was a joke. Giambi didn't do anything defensively to make him an MVP. 

The article I read explained things in depth and it made it sense. It should be retroactively given to Thomas because Giambi was a cheater, but the rules are the rules. Big Frank got the best award of them all by entering the Hall. 

9 minutes ago, SonofaRoache said:

The article I read explained things in depth and it made it sense. It should be retroactively given to Thomas because Giambi was a cheater, but the rules are the rules. Big Frank got the best award of them all by entering the Hall. 

You have a link to or know the name of the article? I'd love to read it. 

10 minutes ago, Soxsi75 said:

You have a link to or know the name of the article? I'd love to read it. 

I don't remember exactly, but I think it was a spring MLB.com article about re-ranking MVP races. I'll see if I can find it.  

22 minutes ago, Soxsi75 said:

You have a link to or know the name of the article? I'd love to read it. 

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2892419-power-ranking-every-al-mvp-season-since-2000

https://www.mlb.com/news/21st-century-most-valuable-players-awards-ranked

 

Both of these articles mention that AROID and Pedro are basically next in line. These aren't I articles I read, that one mentioned that Frank was 10th in WAR and just other stats that made me feel like maybe Frank wasn't as robbed as I once thought. 

Edited July 6, 20205 yr by SonofaRoache

Baldwin, Parque, and Sirotka were our big 3. Yuck!

1 minute ago, zisk said:

Baldwin, Parque, and Sirotka were our big 3. Yuck!

Technically Kip Wells was a top prospect at the time, as was Garland.  I don't recall, but I don't remember when Jon Rauch's labrum imploded (and whether he might have been ready in 2000 or if that was 2001). But yes, the rotation was not pretty.  Eldred was pretty solid (but even when he was pitching solid - I think you all knew he would eventually implode...or get injured).

 

Note: Just looked up Wells..kind of crazy someone with a career ERA+ <80 pitched in 12 major league seasons 

Man this is one of my favorite teams ever.  I became a huge fan 1997-2000, early high school, so I loved this team.  I got pulled out of school to go to the first playoff game which was awesome.
 

I also remember watching them get swept and I was eating an apple during the final out.  I was so pissed & whipped it super hard at my bedroom wall and it exploded everywhere- some of those little chunks are STILL on that wall at my mom’s house 20 years later.  
 

I loved that team and that time

18 hours ago, Chisoxfn said:

Technically Kip Wells was a top prospect at the time, as was Garland.  I don't recall, but I don't remember when Jon Rauch's labrum imploded (and whether he might have been ready in 2000 or if that was 2001). But yes, the rotation was not pretty.  Eldred was pretty solid (but even when he was pitching solid - I think you all knew he would eventually implode...or get injured).

 

Note: Just looked up Wells..kind of crazy someone with a career ERA+ <80 pitched in 12 major league seasons 

Right, and the takeaway from the seattle series was that the sox had really promising pitching that would continue to pair with the offense moving forward. Then the really rough growing pains/injuries of wells, garland, biddle, parque, barcelo, rauch, wright, etc ...

 

1 minute ago, bmags said:

Right, and the takeaway from the seattle series was that the sox had really promising pitching that would continue to pair with the offense moving forward. Then the really rough growing pains/injuries of wells, garland, biddle, parque, barcelo, rauch, wright, etc ...

 

Funny part was, Mark Buehrle emerged to be the best of the entire bunch and was never on anyones list.  Still, I think if the Sox ever were able to figure out their 5th starter woes during those windows, they would have had a lot of playoff runs and who knows what could have happened.  

I can’t remember my name.

6 minutes ago, Chisoxfn said:

Funny part was, Mark Buehrle emerged to be the best of the entire bunch and was never on anyones list.  Still, I think if the Sox ever were able to figure out their 5th starter woes during those windows, they would have had a lot of playoff runs and who knows what could have happened.  

The biggest issue from 2001-04 was that the Sox kept counting on their young arms who had been injured and lost effectiveness to fill that 5th starter spot and it never happened. Nobody got healthy, everyone sucked. By 2003 it was clear that those guys sucked, they should have just signed a veteran. I remember being pissed that they passed on Kenny Rogers in 2003. That could have been the guy that put them over the top. Had they just bit the bullet and signed one more arm to a 2 year deal over those years, they could have gone on another run or two prior to 2005. 

21 hours ago, zisk said:

Baldwin, Parque, and Sirotka were our big 3. Yuck!

They all got hurt. So we don't know how they would have turned out. They were all pitching well that year.....until they all got hurt, and so because of that, by 2003 they were all gone. So now 20 years later, it's too easy to say they weren't any good because they were all gone in a couple of years. They were pitching well. The problem and the failure of that team was that their pitching ALL got hurt. Not that it was bad. 

Even if healthy, that staff wasn't going to win too many playoff games. They just didn't have the stuff to compete in high pressure situations. 

On 7/6/2020 at 5:01 PM, Chisoxfn said:

Technically Kip Wells was a top prospect at the time, as was Garland.  I don't recall, but I don't remember when Jon Rauch's labrum imploded (and whether he might have been ready in 2000 or if that was 2001). But yes, the rotation was not pretty.  Eldred was pretty solid (but even when he was pitching solid - I think you all knew he would eventually implode...or get injured).

 

Note: Just looked up Wells..kind of crazy someone with a career ERA+ <80 pitched in 12 major league seasons 

Tim Belcher was a summer pickup. 

Not sure if the memory is accurate but I remember the Sox had a bunch of day games in the playoffs and their splits stats for hitting were much better at night.

Im not going to look it up because its a sad memory.

For a time, it looked like this team was going to the Series. In mid-June, they had a seven game road trip when they first went to Cleveland and then New York. The Sox won all seven. They returned home to a crowd of over 40,000. But came the deflating playoffs. 

Big blowhard David Wells came the next year and things went south. 2001 was nothing but a bad memory. It was great when Iguchi homered off of fat ass Wells in the '05 playoffs.

I remember sitting in my office at my first "real" job out of college, watching the game on MLB.com (F5'ing the gameday page) with a bunch of coworkers over my shoulder .. only to be heartbroken by the outcome of the postseason. 

Of course, that team was fun as hell. First "good" White Sox team of my young life at the time which I was old enough to really experience. 

I went to a TON of games that year with my father. Including Game 2 of the ALDS vs Seattle. That series was not very fun. lol

On ‎7‎/‎7‎/‎2020 at 2:25 PM, Soxsi75 said:

They all got hurt. So we don't know how they would have turned out. They were all pitching well that year.....until they all got hurt, and so because of that, by 2003 they were all gone. So now 20 years later, it's too easy to say they weren't any good because they were all gone in a couple of years. They were pitching well. The problem and the failure of that team was that their pitching ALL got hurt. Not that it was bad. 

I actually liked watching Parque and Sirotka pitch. Neither one had a ton of physical talent, but they both knew how to pitch. Both guys would jam

anybody at any time.

Jose Valentin will forever be the most under-appreciated player in Sox history.

Edited July 10, 20205 yr by Chicago White Sox

Hard to overemphasize how important stuff like this was to teenage me.