3 hours ago, Dominikk85 said:

I'm OK with Vaughn as he was hitting so well that his ceiling is basically Paul goldschmidt. Bigger problem is the other fringe athletes they drafted in burger and Collins. 

It seems like the front office loves to stretch good bats into tougher positions, hence the Collins and burger drafts and the attempts to play Vaughn out of position (and getting EE instead of just DHing Eloy). 

If it works it strengthens the offense but it is a fine line until you totally blow up your defense. The Phillies failed with that big time a couple years ago when they tried Hoskins in the outfield and the team was like minus 100 runs defensively. 

The problems are really Eloy and Abreu.  Vaughn is a prototypical 1B.  Abreu was better at 1B this year but his future is at DH and Eloy already is a DH.  Grandal is no elite defensive C either and really is probably best off spending some time at 1B and DH as well.  We really need to fix this issue defensively going forward IMO, and the answer definitely has nothing to do with Vaughn, who fits his position better than anyone else in the conversation.

RF, I say no.  But why not LF?    He can't be any worse than Eloy IMO.

I think one thing to come out of this season is convincing evidence that Eloy has zero chance to ever being an adequate OF.   And if the Sox want to maximize Eloy's  lone elite tool which is hitting, his availability to the lineup every night is crucial.   Get him out of the OF. 

 

 

1 hour ago, HOFHurt35 said:

RF, I say no.  But why not LF?    He can't be any worse than Eloy IMO.

I think one thing to come out of this season is convincing evidence that Eloy has zero chance to ever being an adequate OF.   And if the Sox want to maximize Eloy's  lone elite tool which is hitting, his availability to the lineup every night is crucial.   Get him out of the OF. 

 

 

He could definitely be worse than Eloy. Imagine putting Paulie out there. Not saying Vaughn is that slow, but let's me real. Assuming 1st basemen would field better than Eloy is a huge stretch. Eloy flashes decent range at times. 

7 minutes ago, Yearnin' for Yermin said:

He could definitely be worse than Eloy. Imagine putting Paulie out there. Not saying Vaughn is that slow, but let's me real. Assuming 1st basemen would field better than Eloy is a huge stretch. Eloy flashes decent range at times. 

The only range Eloy has ever flashed is in his kitchen. 

Eloy takes bad routes but his speed is not bad. He is not a burner but his sprint speed is actually above average. Vaughn is somewhere between well below average and really slow (we will see next season when statcast is out but definitely slower than Eloy) 

8 hours ago, Yearnin' for Yermin said:

He could definitely be worse than Eloy. Imagine putting Paulie out there. Not saying Vaughn is that slow, but let's me real. Assuming 1st basemen would field better than Eloy is a huge stretch. Eloy flashes decent range at times. 

I think the Sox FO  has to determine where they see Eloy and Vaughn eventually playing. If both are really DH only or the successor to Abreu, they may want to shop one for trade value. Both are too young to be a  full-time DH especially as their future contracts come in to play. 

I think you simply need to keep Eloy the OF because you have Vaughn and Jose. Just get a strong defensive RF and tell Eloy to let Robert and that guy do their job and only go for balls that are clearly to him so he doesn't hurt himself and others. 

That is imo why Vaughn to RF is stupid. Vaughn in a corner maybe would work if you had Robert and Heyward in the other corners but not with Eloy out there. And if you get another good OF why would you put an even slower guy than Eloy in the OF to DH Eloy? 

 

Vaughn can play 5 games a year in the OF but that's it. 

I agree with no RF, Vaughn is a 1B and that's where he should be. While Jose is physically able to play 1B, then Vaughn should be the primary DH. I don't like the idea to platoon 50% Vaughn and Abreu. Abreu has earned the start in 85% of the games at 1B. Give him a few days off and play at DH. It's not like Vaughn isn't going to get reps at 1B and that should be a position that he transitions well to once Jose is not able to play good defense. 

35 minutes ago, TheCommish said:

I agree with no RF, Vaughn is a 1B and that's where he should be. While Jose is physically able to play 1B, then Vaughn should be the primary DH. I don't like the idea to platoon 50% Vaughn and Abreu. Abreu has earned the start in 85% of the games at 1B. Give him a few days off and play at DH. It's not like Vaughn isn't going to get reps at 1B and that should be a position that he transitions well to once Jose is not able to play good defense. 

They just need to have a transition plan that leads to Vaughn being the full time first baseman come 2023.  Whether it's a 80/20 or 70/30 split next year with Jose getting most of the reps that then transitions to perhaps the opposite in 2022, I think the goal is to have Vaughn the long term solution for first base during this exciting window of contention coming up these next several years. 

1 hour ago, TheCommish said:

I agree with no RF, Vaughn is a 1B and that's where he should be. While Jose is physically able to play 1B, then Vaughn should be the primary DH. I don't like the idea to platoon 50% Vaughn and Abreu. Abreu has earned the start in 85% of the games at 1B. Give him a few days off and play at DH. It's not like Vaughn isn't going to get reps at 1B and that should be a position that he transitions well to once Jose is not able to play good defense. 

I'm not against DHing Vaughn, but he's too young to be full time.

You'd want him as the primary 1B since he's the younger of the 1B options.

 I don't think Vaughn is a prototypical first basemen, unless one considers Prince Fielder to be the prototype.

Vaughn has some hefty thunder thighs, short arms and short legs. Definitely not the body type that one would consider to be best  suited for 1B.

Catcher or DH perhaps.

1 hour ago, tray said:

 I don't think Vaughn is a prototypical first basemen, unless one considers Prince Fielder to be the prototype.

Vaughn has some hefty thunder thighs, short arms and short legs. Definitely not the body type that one would consider to be best  suited for 1B.

Catcher or DH perhaps.

Tim Anderson already has the catching position locked up, sorry

When Abreu's contract is up, Eloy will move to DH, Vaughn full time 1B... Until that time I HOPE Abreu and Vaughn split 1B duties at the very least.

Everyone can play first, if Vaughn gets 20 games a year at first until Jose is gone that is enough practice. Vaughn is the DH next year and occasionally will spell Jose at first. 

5 minutes ago, tray said:

There are a LOT of bang-bang/ close plays at first. A first basemen has to have long arms to reach for balls out if front in order to save that millisecond of time to get outs. Also, a first basemen has to have height and long arms to catch high throws.  Vaughn is just not going to get many of the outs that  Abreu gets on close plays because he is relatively short and has limited reach and flexibility.

I would not have selected Vaughn in the Draft, but the Sox loved his hitting ability which was extraordinary in college.

I hope that proves to be right in the majors.  I'm just having a hard time envisioning   him at first base.  Vaughn will get a chance to play a lot of first base  at ST to prove the doubters like me wrong. He is a great young man, that's for sure.

 

This is a fun hot take.. well done.

Vaughn is definitely a bit short for a 1b and not the prototypical 1b prospect, not just because of height but because typically 1b prospects in the top50 overall have 70-80 raw while vaughn is more 55-60 raw that plays up due to his hit tool but really I don't care how he produces at the plate and really stretching and scooping is only a minor part of 1b Defense (there was a FG article that really about 75-80% of a 1b defense is not how he receives and scoops throws but how he fields balls hit to him as most of the Receiving is just routine plays. 

1 hour ago, Dominikk85 said:

Vaughn is definitely a bit short for a 1b and not the prototypical 1b prospect, not just because of height but because typically 1b prospects in the top50 overall have 70-80 raw while vaughn is more 55-60 raw that plays up due to his hit tool but really I don't care how he produces at the plate and really stretching and scooping is only a minor part of 1b Defense (there was a FG article that really about 75-80% of a 1b defense is not how he receives and scoops throws but how he fields balls hit to him as most of the Receiving is just routine plays. 

If he could learn LF, it would be ideal.

Trade Vaughan to the Red Sox for left-handed right fielder Verdugo. Seems fair. 

Edited October 10, 20205 yr by Baker

 just let Vaughn hit and get an outfielder. Vaughn is a 1b/DH and that is fine, put him at DH and use the money you save for him compared to what EE cost into RF.

Edited October 10, 20205 yr by Dominikk85

9 hours ago, Dominikk85 said:

 just let Vaughn hit and get an outfielder. Vaughn is a 1b/DH and that is fine, put him at DH and use the money you save for him compared to what EE cost into RF.

I think there will be a flood of non-tenders and cheap free agents out there to bet on.  The last thing they are going to do is dump Vaughn for a position player.  The ONLY way he gets moved is if the Sox get a literal ace, and Vaughn is a centerpiece in that deal.  Other than that, you might as well start penciling Andrews bat into the middle of our line for the decade.

I guess it's the offseason on Soxtalk too.  Fug.

1 hour ago, southsider2k5 said:

I think there will be a flood of non-tenders and cheap free agents out there to bet on.  The last thing they are going to do is dump Vaughn for a position player.  The ONLY way he gets moved is if the Sox get a literal ace, and Vaughn is a centerpiece in that deal.  Other than that, you might as well start penciling Andrews bat into the middle of our line for the decade.

The Sox should be able to sign a position player and keep Vaughn even with corona. 

22 hours ago, Dominikk85 said:

The Sox should be able to sign a position player and keep Vaughn even with corona. 

If this were a normal offseason, I have zero doubt we would be spending big.  But this year?  It is all a guessing game.

On 10/10/2020 at 11:15 AM, chitownsportsfan said:

I guess it's the offseason on Soxtalk too.  Fug.

I said the same thing reading some of these posts today ha

When does Vaughn get called up next year?

Call him up after two weeks or start him in AA and keep him there until super two  cutoff?

You could also bring him up immediately but that would be stupid as it means you just as well could have called him up this September