2 minutes ago, almagest said:

You have no idea if this is the case here.

That's how Ozzie, Robin and Ricky were all hired and they've admitted it publicly.  I hope it is different going forward.

Famously, KW wanted Robin or Paulie as a player-coach.  Real deep search there bruh.

Edited October 12, 20205 yr by YourWhatHurts

We signed Keuchel. How do all of the anti Hinch people feel about that?

But a cheater of what severity? As you know, there are different severities of cheating, so please define what levels of cheater you don't want hired (some others apparently struggle with this).

Edited October 12, 20205 yr by KonerkoFan1

21 minutes ago, supernuke said:

I can't believe so many would refuse to give someone a second chance.

To the OP, you said how would you explain this to your kids. Would you not use this as an opportunity to teach that making a mistake is not the end of the world. A mistake was made and the man received and served his punishment and hopefully learned from it and now can receive a second chance if he proves worthy.  

 

16 minutes ago, Tony said:

Good post, and to add to it:

@35thstreetswarm, let me give you some advice. Please don't ever use pro sports to try to explain any sort of moral compass to your children. It's a losing effort in every way. 

Thanks for the help, but my kids are smart enough to recognize adult rationalization and double-speak when they hear it.  

7 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

I believe in second chances but you can’t ignore what happened. He was caught cheating. He knew of it and as the manager of the team didn’t stop it. That isn’t exactly a sign of good leadership. 

What if his boss told him not to stop it? It seems like take every advantage was an organizational philosophy with the Astros.

2 minutes ago, 35thstreetswarm said:

 

Thanks for the help, but my kids are smart enough to recognize adult rationalization and double-speak when they hear it.  

So no second chances? One mistake and that's it forever?

8 minutes ago, YourWhatHurts said:

That's how Ozzie, Robin and Ricky were all hired and they've admitted it publicly.  I hope it is different going forward.

Famously, KW wanted Robin or Paulie as a player-coach.  Real deep search there bruh.

Seems like its different now based on today's events, but we'll see.

Good Lord, the pearl-clutching on this board today is insane. Hinch tried to stop the cheating (perhaps not hard enough, but that's not my point) and he was fired and suspended for it. He lost his job and served his punishment. If Rick, Kenny, and Jerry are on board, count me in.

As far as what you should tell your kids, try starting with "Sometimes people do bad things, and most of the time those people deserve second chances."

Edited October 12, 20205 yr by oneofthemikes

These are the top 32 managerial jobs in the world. As much as we talk about the same names recirculating, there are also names coming in and dropping out every year. If it's what you want to do and you are good at it, you will do everything you can to protect it. He made it known he didn't like it, he destroyed two monitors, he admitted to it, he took responsibility for it, he served his suspension, which was the 2nd longest ever (tied with Cora), not one PLAYER was suspended or punished in any way.

I don't have a problem with Hinch. He screwed up, he took responsibility, he should be given a second chance if they think he can win here.

 

Your first mistake is making professional athletes a role model for your kids. It’s entertainment, nothing more.

Rich if you're reading this fan has no problem if you hire Hinch.

Cora would be a awful choice

1 hour ago, 35thstreetswarm said:

How would I explain this to my kids?  It is more difficult every day to impress upon them that they must adhere strictly to moral and ethical standards that so many people and institutions brazenly trample when it's expedient.  Please don't foist these ugly dilemmas on us, not in this corner of our lives.  It has taken a century to recover from the Black Sox scandal that darkened this franchise's legacy. 

Maybe it's that my kids are still super young, or maybe it's that I live far out of state and always will, but I have zero intention of using my love of White Sox baseball to teach morality to my children.

Avoid wife beaters, let the roid freaks play for somebody else, but it's not the end of the world if we hire a guy who didn't totally go ape when some of his players came up with a ridiculous scheme. Either way, it's certainly not going to impact the ethics curriculum of my toddlers.

Devils advocate on the don't hire cheaters thing....this was (still is?) a widespread problem in baseball.  I am not condoning it, but just saying a blanket statement of not hiring someone or signing FA players caught cheating (Sox have had plenty on their rosters) you would be REALLY limiting your pool of candidates and players.  Just adding fuel to the fire.  ?

13 minutes ago, oneofthemikes said:

Good Lord, the pearl-clutching on this board today is insane. Hinch tried to stop the cheating (perhaps not hard enough, but that's not my point) and he was fired and suspended for it. He lost his job and served his punishment. If Rick, Kenny, and Jerry are on board, count me in.

As far as what you should tell your kids, try starting with "Sometimes people do bad things, and most of the time those people deserve second chances."

So the manager of a team "tried" to stop cheating but didn't have enough control over his own roster to do it... and you want him to replace a guy who veterans didn't think held some players accountable enough? 

Pretending that Hinch tried to stop anything is a joke.

Lots of fire for several good posts in the latter parts of this thread.

13 minutes ago, soxforlife05 said:

Your first mistake is making professional athletes a role model for your kids. It’s entertainment, nothing more.

Your first mistake is not reading my post before responding to it.  

Baseball Stupidity 101 - recommend former players with no managerial experience.

11 minutes ago, Tony said:

The only difference is Hinch himself never said he did try and stop it. He owned up to it, said he didn't do enough, he should have done more. 

He took his punishment, and MLB has said he is allowed to manage again. That's good enough for me. 

That's fine and if they hire him its fine. I have some beef with him passing the buck and blaming cora, beltran and the players but thats just my opinion. 

I have concerns with Hinch due to a pretty clear lack of control in the most generous reading when in Houston. 
 

But treating the guy like he murdered someone is a little much. 

55 minutes ago, Tony said:

Or Jose Canseco? Or Melky Cabrera? Or Dallas Keuchle? 

Shit happens. If MLB says these guys can play and you think they are a good fit and can help your team win....do it. 

(I will say the Brett Myers think was awful and wasn't happy when the Sox brought him in. That was a mistake, but didn't stop me rooting for the Sox)

You left off the highest paid player until the Sox signed fWAR, busted for cheating against the Sox prior to his signing.

 

“How am I going to explain this to my kids?” 
 

WTF ARE YOU SERIOUS??

1 hour ago, supernuke said:

I can't believe so many would refuse to give someone a second chance.

To the OP, you said how would you explain this to your kids. Would you not use this as an opportunity to teach that making a mistake is not the end of the world. A mistake was made and the man received and served his punishment and hopefully learned from it and now can receive a second chance if he proves worthy.  

I also believe in giving people a second chance. However, this is what an interview is for. Did the person really learn from it? Regardless, that person must understand that he will be under the microscope for a time. There can't be even an appearance of cheating or unethical behavior. That can be tough, but if the person really wants to turn the page, he will be able to operate under those circumstances. 

No cheaters for me. 

57 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

So the manager of a team "tried" to stop cheating but didn't have enough control over his own roster to do it... and you want him to replace a guy who veterans didn't think held some players accountable enough? 

Pretending that Hinch tried to stop anything is a joke.

Poor leadership I would say. 

I prefer cheaters who don't get caught.