Humans generally fall in line. This is much easier said than done. I think most would go along with it, despite being displeased by it.

Has anybody here been a part of hazing, whether it be sports related or fraternity related? Did you go along with it, or did you quit the frat/team because of it?

Edited October 19, 20205 yr by Yearnin' for Yermin

Of course you all would have gone along with it.  

I would definitely expect to notify the GM. Regarding wistleblowing when the GM does nothing that is kind of a risky move. If MLB does act here it might work but if mlb decides to put that under the rug you lose your job and maybe even end up black balled. 

The GM was on on this thing. That's how the complicated camera system got set up in the stadium. At this point Hinch just went along with it to keep his once in a lifetime job. He didn't shoot anyone, so I couldn't care less about his role if he truly was against it. Personally, I would have told the GM first, and if he was in on it, I go back to work and collect my millions. I would have documented all of this though and my meeting with the GM. 

I think the angle that if Hinch speaks out, he never works in MLB again is pretty underappreciated here. The way he went at it, he is probably getting rehired this winter.

1 hour ago, southsider2k5 said:

I think the angle that if Hinch speaks out, he never works in MLB again is pretty underappreciated here. The way he went at it, he is probably getting rehired this winter.

And this is absolutely true. If he throws his entire team under the bus, it is possible that no front office will trust him enough to hire. There goes his career and his means of living. How do you think it would go over if a manager spoke out about one of his players taking steroids? I really doubt anybody who hire that manager again after that.

It's so easy for people here to be righteous when they aren't in the situation AJ Hinch was in. Would you really speak out against the team if it meant your career in baseball would end? Goodbye to all those years of hardwork. Goodbye to the likelihood of living lavishly and comfortable for the rest of your life. Get ready for a boring old 8-5 job. 

Most here would not speak out.

27 minutes ago, Yearnin' for Yermin said:

And this is absolutely true. If he throws his entire team under the bus, it is possible that no front office will trust him enough to hire. There goes his career and his means of living. How do you think it would go over if a manager spoke out about one of his players taking steroids? I really doubt anybody who hire that manager again after that.

It's so easy for people here to be righteous when they aren't in the situation AJ Hinch was in. Would you really speak out against the team if it meant your career in baseball would end? Goodbye to all those years of hardwork. Goodbye to the likelihood of living lavishly and comfortable for the rest of your life. Get ready for a boring old 8-5 job. 

Most here would not speak out.

We have seen it in many other industries.  Whistleblowers don't get hired.

I would not have hired Tony Larussa

3 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

I think the angle that if Hinch speaks out, he never works in MLB again is pretty underappreciated here. The way he went at it, he is probably getting rehired this winter.

This goes double for cops that don't want to speak up about criminal elements in police departments.  Yeah.  Fuck integrity and ethics.  Do what is best for yourself.  Honor is just some word that doesn't do anything and can't be measured anyways.  Get your own.  Fiers is an asshole traitor.  

Just now, turnin' two said:

This goes double for cops that don't want to speak up about criminal elements in police departments.  Yeah.  Fuck integrity and ethics.  Do what is best for yourself.  Honor is just some word that doesn't do anything and can't be measured anyways.  Get your own.  Fiers is an asshole traitor.  

I am definitely not saying it is right, but more of a fact of life.

On 10/18/2020 at 7:02 AM, Dick Allen said:

It’s a bit different because AJ Hinch is the manager of the baseball team meaning he is pretty high up the flag pole, and if he takes the bullet and leaves, he will have no problem landing a similar job. It isn’t like most of us, if we stick our necks out we are trying to live on unemployment checks.

IMO, he easily could have had this end if he wanted to. First, by stopping it himself. He is in charge.Second, by getting help if that didn’t work, and telling Lunhow if it doesn’t stop, I am resigning and telling everyone why. If he did that, he still would be managing the Astros, and there is a good chance Lunhow would still be in baseball. And the Astros probably would have won anyway.

if your point is there was nothing he could do, you are saying with him as a manager, the inmates run the asylum, so he must be pretty shitty at his job.

If he wants to blame Alex Cora, fine. Then the second a new camera goes up after Hinch destroys the first, Cora should have been dismissed.

And he isn’t whistleblowing on someone above him, he is whistleblowing on employees he manages.

This - he is the mgr - he controls what his coaches do / don't do. He and he alone could have and should have stopped it. If the front office was doing other things and had issue with him stopping it, than peace, I'll find another gig.  Hinch pointing fingers at others is not appropriate when he KNEW it was going on.  

27 minutes ago, turnin' two said:

This goes double for cops that don't want to speak up about criminal elements in police departments.  Yeah.  Fuck integrity and ethics.  Do what is best for yourself.  Honor is just some word that doesn't do anything and can't be measured anyways.  Get your own.  Fiers is an asshole traitor.  

This example is as stupid as the one comparing the cheating scandal to dumping toxic waste into the Mississippi River. We are talking about a game here, not the murder or jailing of an innocent person.

I'm sure you would have been the completely honorable whistleblower that goes against all those millionaires and the billionaire, all while sacrificing any chance of keeping your incredibly well paying dream job.

Edited October 19, 20205 yr by Yearnin' for Yermin

Figure out a way to not get caught

4 hours ago, Yearnin' for Yermin said:

Most here would not speak out. 

That's why I added option c). Walking away for undisclosed family reasons was also an option if you really disapprove of the cheating but can't stop it. You could preserve your integrity (if you are afflicted with such) as well as your future career opportunities. He didn't do that either.

On 10/18/2020 at 9:17 AM, Harold's Leg Lift said:

I'm not the least bit surprised.  Fans can talk themselves into anything.  

True. And it's really WRONG to hire the guy if you are the Sox. Especially when Tony is available and others are available. The distraction would be ridiculous, hiring a guy who had to cheat to win. Cmon. The Sox don't need the distraction.

11 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

We have seen it in many other industries.  Whistleblowers don't get hired.

Mike Fiers was the whistleblower here. He got a job. Granted, he has taken heat from some places, but I think more people think he did the right thing than those who think he is a douchebag for speaking out. 

Will Hinch whistleblow if this happens again under his watch? Because if he doesn't and someone does, not only will he not be getting another job, he will have the lifetime ban from baseball tatoo on his forehead. 

Edited October 20, 20205 yr by Dick Allen

6 hours ago, Dick Allen said:

Mike Fiers was the whistleblower here. He got a job. Granted, he has taken heat from some places, but I think more people think he did the right thing than those who think he is a douchebag for speaking out. 

Will Hinch whistleblow if this happens again under his watch? Because if he doesn't and someone does, not only will he not be getting another job, he will have the lifetime ban from baseball tatoo on his forehead. 

He's lucky.  To spin this another way, the reason that SEC instituted a 10% finders fee for reporting misdoings in the financial industry is because people were scared to report these types of things because whistleblowers get blacklisted.  I have zero doubt that if Hinch sells out everyone above and below him before this is public, he never works in MLB again.  In this case he took some public lumps, but it looks like he is going to have another job right away.

Per a conversation with my brother - where he said every member of the 2017 Astros should be suspended a year minimum (10 years for managers), including rookies who only had a cup of coffee - I want to know peoples' answer to another question:

What would you do if you were LaRussa at any point during the steroid era? The man basically got into the Hall of Fame off of it.

Also, yes, my brother has completely reasonable takes.

14 minutes ago, Quin said:

Per a conversation with my brother - where he said every member of the 2017 Astros should be suspended a year minimum (10 years for managers), including rookies who only had a cup of coffee - I want to know peoples' answer to another question:

What would you do if you were LaRussa at any point during the steroid era? The man basically got into the Hall of Fame off of it.

Also, yes, my brother has completely reasonable takes.

This is also a great question.  He's never had to answer to this.

1 hour ago, southsider2k5 said:

He's lucky.  To spin this another way, the reason that SEC instituted a 10% finders fee for reporting misdoings in the financial industry is because people were scared to report these types of things because whistleblowers get blacklisted.  I have zero doubt that if Hinch sells out everyone above and below him before this is public, he never works in MLB again.  In this case he took some public lumps, but it looks like he is going to have another job right away.

It depends what you are blowing the whistle on. If someone was a whistleblower on Peregrine a few years ago, I'm sure they wouldn't be PNG in the business.

The problem with Hinch being a whistleblower is he was part of it, whether he really wanted to be or not. I won't be so pissed if they hire him, but while his baseball brain may be top notch, he is a very flawed "leader".

Edited October 20, 20205 yr by Dick Allen

16 hours ago, skooch said:

That's why I added option c). Walking away for undisclosed family reasons was also an option if you really disapprove of the cheating but can't stop it. You could preserve your integrity (if you are afflicted with such) as well as your future career opportunities. He didn't do that either.

Not happening. You are now viewed as a quitter. No FO will trust that you won't quit during the middle of a championship run. Teams often put stipulations in contracts to avoid just quitting and then coming back to a better situation. 

1 hour ago, Quin said:

Per a conversation with my brother - where he said every member of the 2017 Astros should be suspended a year minimum (10 years for managers), including rookies who only had a cup of coffee - I want to know peoples' answer to another question:

What would you do if you were LaRussa at any point during the steroid era? The man basically got into the Hall of Fame off of it.

Also, yes, my brother has completely reasonable takes.

The problem here is that they couldn't prove how involved people were. They couldn't prove what players did what and for how long. Management got suspended for letting it happen in general. 

1 minute ago, SonofaRoache said:

The problem here is that they couldn't prove how involved people were. They couldn't prove what players did what and for how long. Management got suspended for letting it happen in general. 

They could have proven it.  They chose not to

50 minutes ago, SonofaRoache said:

Not happening. You are now viewed as a quitter. No FO will trust that you won't quit during the middle of a championship run. Teams often put stipulations in contracts to avoid just quitting and then coming back to a better situation.  

Well, if you approach the GM and he refuses to stop the cheating and you are unwilling to walk away quietly, I guess that leaves two options ... blow it all up and risk never working in MLB again or do what Hinch did and play along quietly. I suspect this is exactly what happened and Hinch chose the latter.

Which one are you choosing? There's a lot of moralizing done around here, but if faced with this scenario, I'm guessing most people would have done the same.

48 minutes ago, skooch said:

Well, if you approach the GM and he refuses to stop the cheating and you are unwilling to walk away quietly, I guess that leaves two options ... blow it all up and risk never working in MLB again or do what Hinch did and play along quietly. I suspect this is exactly what happened and Hinch chose the latter.

Which one are you choosing? There's a lot of moralizing done around here, but if faced with this scenario, I'm guessing most people would have done the same.

I'm keeping my job and shutting up. Speaking out about it just gets you blackballed. And speaking out about it early means you can't prove it is even happening. As it would have been done before the investigation took place.